A slightly more rational Hitler deports "non-Aryans"

Deleted member 94680

I assume you're an intentionalist then?

Neither. I don’t doubt Hitler’s intention to exterminate the Jews, but I find it laughable that people believe the entire Nazi apparatus of death were mindless automatons slavishly following der Fuhrer’s every command.

I won't question that Nazism leads to mass persecution, bigotry and horrible things but if they were hell bent on mass extermination the Nazis certainly took their time to get there.

That simplified and ignores most of what the Nazis were about. So they took a long time to get there, that must mean they were basically nice guys forced into a corner? How does that explain Aktion T4? Didn’t take ‘em long to arrive at that ‘solution’. The Madagascar Plan wasn’t a surprise holiday package for all of Europe’s Jews as a thank-you from Hitler for nicely leaving Europe. It was slow death in a tropical hell-hole. The ‘Final Solution’ was a panicked reaction to a catastrophically collapsing military situation that forced the leadership of the Nazi regime to accelerate their time table. To suggest Auschwitz, Birkenau, Sobibor, et al could be set up and operated without wholesale cooperation from every level of the Nazi regime is as much nonsense as to suggest Hitler was unaware of their existence and operation.
 
That simplified and ignores most of what the Nazis were about. So they took a long time to get there, that must mean they were basically nice guys forced into a corner?
If you are seriously thinking that this is what I think, and that I'm ignorant of the steps before the Final Solution, I'm not engaging with you.
 

Deleted member 94680

If you are seriously thinking that this is what I think, I'm not engaging with you.

Apologies for offence.

So what are you arguing? I must have missed the point, bringing timescale into it means?
 
The OP imagines a Hitler who wants deportation rather than mass murder; if that's the case, who in Nazi Germany could override him? The practicalities may stop him (but as noted, he could conceivably carve off a chunk of the German conquests for the purpose), but I can't envision a scenario where like Heydrich and Himmler force Hitler to enact the final solution. He made the calls. Likewise, Nazism as a philosophy/ideology isn't a clockwork machine that inevitably leads to the Holocaust as we know it; it went through many changes over the years (including on this issue) and as said mostly came down to one madman's whims.

See, but Hitler created the idea to eventually be able to truly get rid of them, to systematically make the Jewish people disappear. Yes, that was his and the Nazis like Himmler and Heydrichs intention. They didn't want them to live happily ever after somewhere else. They wanted them gone, they were a plague. So the idea of a Hitler coming up with that plan but actually wanting a happily everafter for the Jews is contradicting. It was a stepping stone to a much more elaborate and efficient means to rid them of the "Jewish problem". A lot of the other Nazis didn't really know how to answer the question untill 1942, but you can bet your ass the most prominent Nazis including Hitler already knew what was needed for their ideal future, he just needed to nudge far enough to get the program started with a majority backing them.
 
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/mobile/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005468

By September 1939, approximately 282,000 Jews had left Germany and 117,000 from annexed Austria. Of these, some 95,000 emigrated to the United States, 60,000 to Palestine, 40,000 to Great Britain, and about 75,000 to Central and South America, with the largest numbers entering Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Bolivia. More than 18,000 Jews from the German Reich were also able to find refuge in Shanghai, in Japanese-occupied China.
This is from the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum.

A lot of people should have done a lot more. Taking in refugees is usually politically charged, especially during the Great Depression, including the 1937 slipping backward in the United States.
 
I may be a bit off the (Reichs)mark here but I don't think Germany had to foreign cash reserves on hand to allow its entire Jewish population to convert their money into the dollars, pounds etc required to allow the Jews to legally emigrate anywhere, nor was it making enough money from exports. Again I'm not quite sure but Austria either had double (or an equal amount) of foreign currency reserves to Germany when it was annexed.

The only remotely humane plan was the one proposed by Hjalmar Schacht in 1938, in which emigrating Jews would have transferred their property to a trust guaranteed by the government and those funds could have been spent only in Germany.

Unfortunately he had already been fired as finance minister the year before, so his suggestion didn't quite count for much.
 
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