A slightly different Pearl Harbor.

In this alternate timeline the Shaw, Downes,Casein, and Helena (and consequently the Ogala)are not damaged during the Pearl Harbor attack but all other damage and losses remain the same. What potential changes occur from having three more modern destroyers and a modern light cruiser available in the Pacific make in the first half of 1942?
 

Ian_W

Banned
In this alternate timeline the Shaw, Downes,Casein, and Helena (and consequently the Ogala)are not damaged during the Pearl Harbor attack but all other damage and losses remain the same. What potential changes occur from having three more modern destroyers and a modern light cruiser available in the Pacific make in the first half of 1942?

Nothing.
 
In this alternate timeline the Shaw, Downes,Casein, and Helena (and consequently the Ogala)are not damaged during the Pearl Harbor attack but all other damage and losses remain the same. What potential changes occur from having three more modern destroyers and a modern light cruiser available in the Pacific make in the first half of 1942?
Nothing.
 
In this alternate timeline the Shaw, Downes,Casein, and Helena (and consequently the Ogala)are not damaged during the Pearl Harbor attack but all other damage and losses remain the same. What potential changes occur from having three more modern destroyers and a modern light cruiser available in the Pacific make in the first half of 1942?

I don't know that a trio of modern DDs will have a major impact, unless one or two happen to be with Yorktown at Midway and deters I-168 from making her attack. Similarly, if additional destroyers are with Wasp, perhaps one would deter I-19, but either case would require the additional DD to be in the right place at exactly the right time.

Helena is a major factor, but in the other direction, because her damage at Pearl Harbor allowed her to be updated, IIRC bringing some of the first 40mm Bofors to the Pacific, and more importantly, SG radar (surface), SC radar (air) and FD radar (fire direction). Without that update, Helena might well be as ineffective as any other cruiser off Guadalcanal. Her SG radar picked up the Japanese at over 27,700 yards at Cape Esperance, and 27,100 yards at First Guadalcanal.

My initial thoughts,
 
I don't know that a trio of modern DDs will have a major impact, unless one or two happen to be with Yorktown at Midway and deters I-168 from making her attack. Similarly, if additional destroyers are with Wasp, perhaps one would deter I-19, but either case would require the additional DD to be in the right place at exactly the right time.

Helena is a major factor, but in the other direction, because her damage at Pearl Harbor allowed her to be updated, IIRC bringing some of the first 40mm Bofors to the Pacific, and more importantly, SG radar (surface), SC radar (air) and FD radar (fire direction). Without that update, Helena might well be as ineffective as any other cruiser off Guadalcanal. Her SG radar picked up the Japanese at over 27,700 yards at Cape Esperance, and 27,100 yards at First Guadalcanal.

My initial thoughts,
The other two major points where having three more DDs and another CL might make a major difference are when the Saratoga and Neches were torpedoed in January of 42, and getting Saratoga to Midway as one of the main reasons she took so long to leave the west coast was a lack of available escorts. I did forget how much Helena's refit helped her lethality in the Guadalcanal campaign.
 

Ian_W

Banned
The other two major points where having three more DDs and another CL might make a major difference are when the Saratoga and Neches were torpedoed in January of 42, and getting Saratoga to Midway as one of the main reasons she took so long to leave the west coast was a lack of available escorts. I did forget how much Helena's refit helped her lethality in the Guadalcanal campaign.

If randomly the right assets are in the right place at the right time, then if we wank things absolutely correctly then we can get things to go just right.
 
The other two major points where having three more DDs and another CL might make a major difference are when the Saratoga and Neches were torpedoed in January of 42, and getting Saratoga to Midway as one of the main reasons she took so long to leave the west coast was a lack of available escorts. I did forget how much Helena's refit helped her lethality in the Guadalcanal campaign.


Gib Hoover had turned Helena's crew into razors by the Guadalcanal rolled around. She was credited with 17 rounds per minute per gun; no wonder the Japanese thought the US had developed a 6in machine gun.
It's too bad Halsey's pet psychopath Miles Browing had it in for Hoover; Browning blamed Hoover for Juneau's crew being left in the water and Hoover was beached, denying the Navy one of its best surface combat veterans with knowledge and experience of the use of radar from gaining flag rank and commanding at sea.

Regards,
 
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Gib Hoover had turned Helena's crew into razors by the Guadalcanal rolled around. She was credited with 17 rounds per minute per gun; no wonder the Japanese thought the US had developed a 6in machine gun.
It's too bad Halsey's pet psychopath Miles Browing had it in for Hoover; Browning blamed Hoover for Juneau's crew being left in the water and was Hoover beached, denying the Navy one of its best surface combat veterans with knowledge and experience of the use of radar from gaining flag rank and commanding at sea.

Regards,
If only Miles Browning had fallen overboard off the Enterprise on December 6th, 1941 and drowned it would have solved a lot of problems for the USN. Say what you want about Marc Mitscher in 1942 but at least he partially redeemed himself later in the war commanding TF58...Browning not so much
 
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As long as we are bashing Captain Miles Browning. In 1944 he was sent sideways to command a carrier. Which got him off Halseys staff. While his ship was anchored in Manilia Bay Browning ordered a stand down from a man overboard call by the officer of the deck. He wanted to get the evening movie started. Two days later another ship pulled a drowned crew member of Brownings ship out of the harbor. Browning was convicted of violation of Navy regs in a court martial, relieved of command, sent to a recruiting command in Wyoming, and swiftly put on the retired list at the end of the war.
 
As long as we are bashing Captain Miles Browning. In 1944 he was sent sideways to command a carrier. Which got him off Halseys staff. While his ship was anchored in Manilia Bay Browning ordered a stand down from a man overboard call by the officer of the deck. He wanted to get the evening movie started. Two days later another ship pulled a drowned crew member of Brownings ship out of the harbor. Browning was convicted of violation of Navy regs in a court martial, relieved of command, sent to a recruiting command in Wyoming, and swiftly put on the retired list at the end of the war.
He should have been sent to prison for at least Manslaughter.
 
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