A Shift in Priorities

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Has Germany even the legal means to extradite Trotski? Without a extradition treaty with Russia this could be not that easy. And even than I don´t know it would be legal, as it is questionable that current Russian law is applicable for the civil war.
Furthermore an extradition could provide tension with other nations or even within Germany. Afterall in Mexico and perhaps other parts of latin america he´ll still enjoy quite a lot of support as in parts of the PDS. And forced population movements were also used by other nations, including German allies like the Ottomans. Condemning such a move won´t be go down with them. The situation is not that easy.
 
Good point about the prevalence of population movement ITTL. Though I've always said there could be a lot of potential popular opposition to the phenomenon at this point. Lots of "bad guys" have used it, after all.

Russians have probably been moved around more than anyone ITTL; pushed out of (what became) Finland, Ukraine, Poland, the Caucasus, the Pan Turan League, and Northern China.

On the one hand, I can see them condemning the practice because they've been pushed around the board so much, but on the other hand, they still harbor designs on the territory they've been ejected from.

This could complicate things.
 
And of course the slight complication that Trotsky is not officially in Germany, it is a person called Aslan Düşünür, and they could just reject it on that formality. As the others said, the matter is rather complicated, because no matter what they do, there is always going to be group of people/country that is going to be pissed.
 
¡ Hi ! ¡ COMPLICATED !:D:cool::D.

Yep, for one part Trosky created a lot of mess as the Checa/maffia gangs, and i supost that he comand a lot of deaths in the russian civil war, and some of that lifes losen was inocent people. But for other part his politics and ideas helping for winning the English civil war, and i bet that in this conflict he how to say choice, elect the politics, decitions for salving a lot of english lifes, and don´t forget that in México he work for the improvement of mexican population, for liberating the country, etc...:cool:, in short he is in a crossroad;), he did very good and very bad things, and in the last years he is working for creating a better world. If i was from the German intelligence services, i will present another people as that suspect, everybody checks his figerprints, photos,etc... and finnally everybody arrive to the conclusion that citizen is not Trosky;):cool::D.
 
For Venezuela, as for myself, i given some oil fields to EVEG and the new discovered fields to american´s enterprises, and everybody is happy and rich by venezuelan oil:D. Musa by the way, it is so cool:cool::):cool:, ¡ heck ! as for myself i supose that a lot of posters around the world with the photo of that guy, and maybe there exist some hidden posters in the houses of the afroamerican revolutionary comunity in América. The freacking scary thing of this war that as for myself i think that maybe will it be see the beggining of how to say, middleafrican imperialism in other countries:eek:, and the beggining of mutual hate between Middleafrica and América:(:eek::(.

And for last please Rast, what are doing these days Aghata Christie:D.

Peace:).
 
I'd prefer Trotzki to survive because he was enterntaining ITTL. But what reason do the Germans have to protect him? They'd alienate the Russians and the US - what for? To placate some of the more radical members of PDS? Probably the conservatives, liberals and Zentrum wouldn't mind if the Russians get him - as long as the Russians do not kill him on German soil. Probably the moderate parts of PDS are fuming that Trotzki wants to speak to the leftist parts.

All in all, Trotzki is a problem for Germany, so they will want to get rid of him without loosing their face. That'll be difficult. I'd expect them to call London and ask for asylum for Trotzki. Socialist England is probably the best chance to get him out of Germany. That also solves a problem for the Russians, because killing Trotzki in Berlin is more problematic than killing Trotzki in Britain...
 
¡ Hi ! to Monty Burns: as for myself i can acept that solution;):D;), in anyway Trosky´s ideas maybe it be will live because so many books written by him:D, and if i remember correctly in the 60´s we see in our world a lot of young people with the Mao´s red book;), maybe in this awesome timeline in the 60´s a lot of young people with Trosky blue books:D:rolleyes::D...

Good luck:).
 
[FONT=&quot]It is more dangerous that even a guilty person should be punished without the forms of law than that he should escape.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](Thomas Jefferson)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]On Saturday, March 10th, 1934, Mehmet Cavid Pasha, the ambassador of the Sublime Porte in Berlin, asked for an interview with German foreign minister Julius Leber in order to discuss the case of Aslan Düşünür sahip. The request was granted immediately, and an appointment was fixed for 15:15 hours.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Russian request for extradition of Leon Trotsky had been received on March 9th, but had not yet been answered, despite Russian ambassador Mikhail Markovich Borodin’s pressure to get a quick and positive decision. After all, a treaty of extradition existed between the empires of Germany and the Russia, and the identity of Leon Trotsky had been established without doubt. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Julius Leber received Cavid Pasha in his office in the Wilhelmstraße. He was eager to hear what the Ottoman minister had to tell. Leber, who had finished the Great War as lieutenant of infantry – and had gone on to serve as a volunteer in the Russian Civil War for two years, had quite an opinion of his own about the Trotsky case, but held back and let the Turk explain his concerns.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Cavid Pasha, a renowned advocate of democracy in the Ottoman Empire, started off by stating that Düşünür sahip’s passport was genuine. It had been issued rightfully by the passport office in Lefkoşa on Kıbrıs; and Düşünür sahip was a registered tax payer living in Mağusa on the east coast of said island. His profession was that of a private scholar, making his living with columns and articles published under various pen names in the Ottoman Empire, continental Europe and Great Britain. – However, when applying for Ottoman citizenship in 1927, Düşünür sahip obviously had made misstatements. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]He had declared to be an Argentine citizen named Pyotr Pavlovich Dzubenko, an immigrant from the Russian Empire before the Great War and successful merchant of canned beef during the Great War. – This was obviously deceitful; therefore, the Sublime Porte requested the extradition of its citizen Aslan Düşünür sahip under the treaty of extradition concluded between the German Empire and the Sublime Porte in 1921, in order to indict Düşünür in court for subreption of official documents by making deceitful statements.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Leber thanked Cavid Pasha for his explanations and accepted the pertaining Ottoman documents. After the Turk had left, he called for his chief legal advisor. The man required only short time to arrive at a verdict: Because Düşünür was undoubtedly a citizen and resident of the Ottoman Empire, the request of the Sublime Porte had precedence over the request of the Russian Empire, even if the charges made by Russia were far more severe. This then would be a matter to be resolved between Russia and the Ottoman Empire.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Next, Leber called for an extraordinary meeting of the cabinet, which was fixed for 19:30 hours. Until then, he made further inquiries with Abteilung V and tasked them to get into contact with Abwehr and Außendienst for getting a comprehensive picture of the situation.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Chancellor Otto Wels opened the extraordinary cabinet session at 19.33 hours, after the minister of the interior, Kurt Schumacher, had arrived behind schedule.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Okay, ladies and gentlemen, Julius has requested this meeting, so I leave it to him to explain what’s up.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Leber expounded the essence of his meeting with the Ottoman ambassador and the advice of the legal advisor.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“I think legally the issue is clear: the Ottomans get Trotsky. – The question, however, is: what do they intend with this manoeuvre? – From what I gather, they must have known very well who Düşünür really was. So, what bargain do they want to strike with Savinkov? – And should we just let it happen without impinging upon it?”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“Tannu Tuva, they want it to become independent and part of the Pan-Turan Commonwealth – when Russia reconquers Mongolia!” injected Theodor Heuß, minister of war.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“May be, but that’s a very remote matter.” answered Leber. “Even if the Russians should go for a war with China, that will not be possible to be launched prior to 1938 or 1939. And whether they’ll decide for war at all isn’t quite plain yet. – There are many rumours, but few hard facts. What we know right now rather points towards a defensive stance taken by Russia.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“But what else might the Turks want from Russia?”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Frankly, I don’t know. – There’s no treaty of extradition between Istanbul and Moscow, so, if they want, the Turks can piss off the Russians. – But again, why should they do that?”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“Well,” remarked Ruth Fischer, minister of justice and chief representative of the PDS left wing after Luxemburg’s death “one thing is for sure: If we hand over Trotsky to the Turks, the Russians will be peeved – thus, whatever else, the manoeuvre will cause a cooling down of Russo-German relations. – I’m not an advocate of extraditing Trotsky to Savinkov, the latter character is far more criminal than the former, but we must understand that not giving Trotsky to Russia will deteriorate relations between our two countries...” [/FONT]
 
I think the Ottomans have several possible motivations here:
  1. showing the world their power. Therefore the Ottomans do not want to sit aside while one of their citizens is given to Russia to be executed. They stand up against a major European power.
  2. The Ottomans want to exchange Trotzki against something else. A treaty of non-aggression perhabs? A guarantee of the Khazach borders by Russia?
  3. the Ottomans want to alienate Russia and Germany. This will necessarily lead to Germany leaning more toward the Ottomans.
 
Finally, finally finished reading through this fantastic, and all-too plausible TL.

Great job rast.

Just one question if I may.

You mentioned many pages back that Paul Hausser (now there's a name that sends a shiver down my spine) was chosen to replace Bauer as German military 'attaché' to China ... and then nothing, no update.

Somehow I can't think the 'Papa' of the Waffen SS and recipent of the Knight's Cross with Swords has just been twiddling his thumbs the past few years there.

An update on Hausser's activities?
 
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JacktheCat;5116819An update on Hausser's activities?[/QUOTE said:
Will come - indirectly - as Hausser is not comparable in his activities to von Bauer; he's concentrating on strengthening the coherence of the Chinese officer corps. So, one may witness the results of his and his staff's work in future updates dealing with the Chinese armed forces.
 
The Trotsky situation comes down to cold blooded realpolitik. Between the Russians and the Turks who can advance the interests of the German state the most and who is willing to pay more?
 
I doubt the PDS is that coldly objective...they are guided by motives of pure altruism (at least they like to see themselves like that), Trotsky is a fellow revolutionary (so a bit of nostalgia might linger with the older, more radical hands),so they might just as well grant him asylum and pay him a pension, fawning over him and his accumulated wisdom. I am only half kidding here...

Personally, I prefer the coldly rational approach. The country which could benefit Germany the most should get first dibs. In the long run, this is Russia.
 
The PDS may have radical leanings in its past. However there has never been a political party left or right where the phrase "What's in it for us/me?" hasn't been on the tip of their tongues. Remember the debate regarding the sudden good relations with Italy ITTL postwar. The same party described did what was good for them and by extension Germany regarding a nation they had been at war with only a few years earlier solely because it was in their interests to do so.
 
Speaking of Italy what's going on their haven't heard much. Also some of the other countries we haven't heard from in a while, France, Japan, Indian Federation, Britain, Greece, the Baltic States, etc. etc. Earlier ITTL you focused immensely on several countries and story arcs all at once. I loved that any chance of getting back into that groove. Or are you comfortable with focusing on one story arc at a time from different perspectives. Going back and forth from the different stories you have started.
 
Earlier ITTL you focused immensely on several countries and story arcs all at once. I loved that any chance of getting back into that groove.

Treating several developments/countries in one entry makes it immensely difficult to search and find details needed for a follow-on story some months later. If one entry deals with one country or development at a time only, that's alleviating search and saves me a lot of time.
 
Treating several developments/countries in one entry makes it immensely difficult to search and find details needed for a follow-on story some months later. If one entry deals with one country or development at a time only, that's alleviating search and saves me a lot of time.

Oh, my wording messed that up. I didn't mean in one entry I just meant how you focus on one story or one country for many updates at a time. And we have lost contact with these countries.
 
Its a way for the Germans to save face, letting the Ottomans be portrayed as 'having done the dirty work'. As for the Ottomans intensions, here's what I think. The Ottomans take him back, then they go to Russia and say...how much will you give us for him? Like Monty Burns mentioned before, Trotsky would fetch quite the ransom.

In addition, though, Trotsky would know that the Ottomans may plan to send him back to Russia for a possible ransom, so the Ottomans might make an 'offer he can't refuse' to Trotsky, asking him to reveal what his clandestine contacts are, in exchange for safety. The information that Trotsky could provide may well be worth its weight in gold. Then the Ottomans might tell the Russians that they might have to up their price, unless they want Trotsky revealing more of their clandestine contacts.

Furthermore, with the Ottomans having the best spy network in the world, its going to be hard for the Russians to try and send an agent to get him out. We might see a clandestine fight of the secret agents in order to get Trotsky; we'd have Muharip and his 'ragtag' vs the Russian amazon spies. One other random question, whatever became of Nubar Gulbenkian after got captured by the Turks in the Aegean during the mid-20s following that whole Sino-Turkish spy drama? Could he have been turned into an Ottoman agent?
 
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