A Shift in Priorities

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¡ Hi ! ¡ NICE !:cool:.

Yep, The Wanderer and his " permanent democratic evolution ":D:rolleyes::D, yep, as for myself i can inmagine a lot of young people in the 60´s creating chaos and disturbs in the streets whith that little book in their hands;):eek::D, in anyway, because he is smart, a master of costume, and with a lot of luck, maybe he evaded the intelligence´s services, and maybe his next written book or work it be their observations and reflexions about the life in England and Germany, will see..

The middleafricans has how to say, start, push, kick the future wave of sucesfully special operations:eek:, i can´t wait for see the articles about this situation in the newspapers around the world:cool:, and i wonder what countres will it be learning and lisen the lessons of this conflict:rolleyes::D;):D.

Good luck:).
 
[FONT=&quot]The democratic regime is the most aristocratic way of ruling. It is possible only to a rich nation.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](Leon Trotsky)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Taking a passenger plane of the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Osmanlı Hava Hattı[/FONT][FONT=&quot] from [/FONT][FONT=&quot]İskele to Istanbul, and a direct train from the Ottoman capital to Vienna, it took the Wanderer less than thirty-six hours to arrive on German soil. Because he possessed a valid Ottoman passport no visa was required – and border checks proved to be mere formalities. His passport identified him as Aslan Düşünür, a private scholar from[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Mağusa[/FONT][FONT=&quot] on Kıbrıs. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Staying overnight in Vienna, Aslan [/FONT][FONT=&quot]şünür took the opportunity to attend a performance at the Vienna Court Opera; after all, such sophisticated cultural experience was not commonplace on [FONT=&quot]Kıbrıs. Thankfully, Verdi’s Rigoletto was enacted, not one of the awful Wagner operas so popular in the Teutonic sphere.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The next day, Düşünür boarded a train to Berlin. This was interesting: the direct line went across the territory of Czecho-Slovakia but there were no controls and the train did not stop, not even when passing Prague. A conductress explained that a transit agreement was in place between the German Empire and the Republic of Czecho-Slovakia providing high speed rail links between Bavaria and Austria in the south and Saxony and Prussia in the north, which crossed Czecho-Slovakian territory but were considered extra-territorial.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]While Düşünür was enjoying lunch in a red Mitropa dining car, the combat behind the scenes had just begun. A Russian diplomat had recognised him on the platform in Vienna – and had rushed to the Russian consulate in order to alert the foreign division of the Okhrana to the fact that Leon Trotsky had just boarded a train to Berlin. This action in turn was monitored by agents of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Abteilung V[FONT=&quot] of the Reichskriminalpolizei, who were keeping the Vienna consulate under close observation because it had been identified as Okhrana nodal point.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]At about the same time, the Seichl – having tapped into the Okhrana’s lines of communication – got the information as well. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]From the German point of view, Düşünür/Trotsky was what his passport said: an innocent citizen of the Ottoman Empire, there were no juridical charges against him in Germany. – Abteilung V were quite surprised to learn that the Russians were out for his life when a telegram arrived from Bialystok warning of just that. It said that the Okhrana would stick at nothing for killing or capturing Düşünür/Trotsky; Okhrana hit squads would not refrain from killing innocents for getting the man dead or alive.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Having been appraised of the situation, Kurt Schumacher, the successor of Rosa Luxemburg as minister of the interior, ordered to take Düşünür/Trotsky from the train at Dresden, the first stop on Saxon soil, and to bring him to Berlin under Abteilung V custody. At the same time, alert measures were activated in Saxony and Prussia against attacks by terrorists. A note was cabled to Moscow: Leon Trotsky had been taken into German custody, no actions by Russian security services were necessary or welcome.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]One hour later, Aslan Düşünür was in Berlin, having been hastily ushered into a police plane in Dresden. A convoy of Abteilung V vehicles took him to the Wilhelmstraße. Minister Schumacher welcomed him in his office.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“Mister Trotsky, I suppose.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Well, yes, if you insist. – But I would appreciate to remain Düşünür sahip, if you don’t mind.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“No trouble at all. – The problem, however, is that the Russians don’t care for Düşünür sahip but have set out to kill or capture Leon Trotsky.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Yes, I know – quite a vindictive lot these people. – I hope you’ll be able to protect me.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Why have you come here?”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“I wanted to visit Rosa Luxemburg’s tomb – and to have a chat with Ruth Fischer.”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]But then an official Russian application for extradition was delivered by the Russian ambassador. The Russian Empire charged Leon Trotsky with mass murder and treason and demanded that this criminal was handed over to the Russian authorities.[/FONT]
 
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It would be criminal to make me pick one thing I like best about this TL, but if I were forced, I'd probably say Trotsky.
 
free Troktsky! if he is actually allowed to go free or at least not extradited to Russia this is going to cause a serious problem in West Russian relations for a long time and I can see a lot of Okrahana agents coming into Germany to get him and possibly attacking German agents themselves stationed around him and you know I think if Troktsky should go any where it should be Africa to try and teach the natives about socialism and inspire socialism in MA
 
This poses quite a few problems for the German government. They have to know that the Russians will kill him by inches, at the same time there is no legitimate reason not to carry out the extradition.
 
He must be handed over to the Russians.

It wouldn't look good for Germany to protect him. Damn near everyone and their mother want him dead.
 
Trotsky is at best an accomplice to mass murder, and arguably a mass murderer himself. And after leaving a trail of bodies he didn't exactly show remorse, he just went to another nation to try the exact same thing again!

The Bolsheviks were to TTL what the Nazi's were to OTL, they just had less fancy outfits and killed a bit more haphazardly.

I admit Trotsky became likeable after this series of snapshots from his trip around the world, but he most certainly deserves to be given to the Russians and the Russians are fully in their right to want him dead. I can only applaud them for wanting to do it slowly.
 
Might the Americans (through Churchill and events in Mexico) also want a word with Trotsky? He makes one hell of a bargaining chip for the Germans, assuming they can keep him alive.
 
I say let Trotsky live. He is one of my favorite central characters of TTL. I would like to see him continue that book he planned on completing, or was that the one you mentioned. Either way I think a new series of books would be awesome. I would like to see Trotsky be the Nietzsche of social politics :D that would be cool.
 
Favorite character or not, he is objectively guilty of numerous infractions against numerous laws in equally numerous countries. He is a mass murderer and whatnot. That he has mellowed out with experience means jack shit, I have to say. All the Germans can do is pump him for information until he is dry and then quietly whisk him away to Russia for maybe a concession or two.
How he managed to subvert US organized crime, his activities in the UK, his general thoughts on things will be priceless in terms of exchange value for other information from said countries...although the info on the US should be used for more, uh, nefarious plans (active agents on the ground etc.).

When in Russia, Trotsky will meet his deserved end. That he made it this far is awesome in its own right and needs recognition maybe in the shape of an epic movie series ITTL. Babelsberg, übernehmen Sie :D
 
Was he a mass-murderer ITTL? In the sense that he was complicit in prosecuting several wars, certainly, and that might be enough for a public trial. But that doesn't make him worse than the Whites or the Americans or the Churchillians; in fact he was on the defensive in every war, most of the time.

That he abandoned the Russians and Mexicans when he perceived that all hope was lost can probably be interpreted as treason. You could tag him with mass theft, or incitement to revolt, but that's too lame for a public trial.

Of course the one place where he could be considered a mass-murderer is if TTL's Russian Revolution was particularly violent. I'm not aware of the death toll in its early days (even IOTL) or what Trotsky's roll was in that.

But then I guess it doesn't really matter; you can always make up evidence if you catch Goldstein.
 
[FONT=&quot]A perfectly stupid race can never rise to a very high plane; the negroe, for instance, has been kept down as much by lack of intellectual development as by anything else.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](Theodore Roosevelt)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The presence of Middle African troops in Venezuela meant a severe reverse for the McAdoo administration. The Monroe Doctrine and with it the Roosevelt Corollary, it seemed, were as dead as a dodo. Hostile foreign powers obviously were free to do what they wanted in the Americas. What had begun with the European nations under German tutelage breaching the US blockade of Mexico had now led to the deployment of Kraut Niggers to a country in South America. The media immediately remembered that Kraut Niggers had already fought on Hispaniola during the Trans-Atlantic War – and put forward the question when they would land there again.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Behind the curtains, Juan Vicente Gómez’ assumption that EVEG had to be behind this affair caused an even greater stir as it seemed to offer a logical explanation. It was known that EVEG was financing the Middle African expansion into West Africa in return for the right of exploitation of all natural resources. Thus, it seemed reasonable to accept that EVEG had a finger in the pie – and was aiming at the Venezuelan oil.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]After one just had succeeded – with considerable hassle – in securing the Mexican oil from the greedy touch of EVEG, the huge Venezuelan oil deposits now were in danger of being devoured by the avid German trust. While the US oil companies and Royal Dutch Shell were unaware of any negotiations between the Movimiento de la Equidad and EVEG, they perfectly well understood the significance of Middle African boots on the Venezuelan ground. A change could happen every time – and because diplomatic relations between the US and Venezuela were suspended still, the McAdoo administration had no instruments of taking influence.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The US supported – and financed – Mantuano invasion had just failed, because of Middle African presence in Venezuela. The size of the Kraut Nigger expeditionary force was unknown; a blockade was completely out of question because of the oil flow, which at present still benefitted the US oil companies. – Because EVEG generally offered favourable conditions to countries they intended to take over in terms of exploitation, the Movimiento de la Equidad suddenly was offered new and very favourable contracts by the US oil companies and Royal Dutch Shell. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In Venezuela, the success of the Middle Africans had led to an epic series of parrandas. The country had been saved from invasion and occupation by the class enemy – and the new oil contracts flushed even more money into the treasury than before...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Musa G’Norebbe certainly had become a national hero – and the focal point of all parties in Caracas. There simply was no way that he returned to Valera and continued training fighting men, he – the victor of the Llanos War – had to attend one parranda after the other...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Losses had been considerable – although remaining obscure for the enemy, because G’Norebbe’s order to evacuate all killed and wounded soldiers had been strictly obeyed. Only in one case – that of unlucky Unteroffizier Irebu – this method had failed; however, in retrospect G’Norebbe realised that Irebu’s capture had been instrumental for Gómez sounding the retreat of his army. – Irebu, by the way, had been left behind by the retreating Mantuanos and was currently recovering in the training camp’s hospital at Valera. In return, G’Norebbe had ordered all captured enemies – about 800 – to be released and shuttled to the Colombian border.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]G’Norebbe had asked for reinforcements from Middle Africa, and a vessel with volunteers was on its way to Venezuela – after the council of first ministers had agreed to the mission and Berlin had signalled agreement as well. This was a major achievement; his mission had now become truly official – and Berlin had rejected all US pressure to get his outfit out of Venezuela. As long as the Venezuelan government wanted him and his men in country, there was no reason to comply with US wishes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There were in fact some EVEG emissaries in country; they had arrived already with the tanker convoy. But they were rather active in charting out a dossier about Venezuelan resources – and had not proposed any business to the Movimiento yet. This had its cause in the ongoing negotiations between EVEG and Royal Dutch Shell, which were taking place in Rotterdam since some time. After Shell had lost its British pillar, the company had become receptive to the luring of the German trust. Price rigging always was preferable to sharp competition, after all...[/FONT]
 

abc123

Banned
He must be handed over to the Russians.

It wouldn't look good for Germany to protect him. Damn near everyone and their mother want him dead.


I say:

MV5BMTE5OTQ3NjM5MV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNDQ5OTEyMQ@@._V1._SY317_CR4,0,214,317_.jpg

:D
 
How about the forced march East during the Russian civil war that left millions dead? Trotsky was one of the Bolshevik leaders during that time.

You can't call the Mexican revolution purely defensive when he was one of the instigators. He purposefully set up a class war. First he starts a revolution in Mexico knowing first hand how many the Russian one left dead, and then he bails out when it becomes hard.

No creative accusations needed.
 
How about the forced march East during the Russian civil war that left millions dead? Trotsky was one of the Bolshevik leaders during that time.

You can't call the Mexican revolution purely defensive when he was one of the instigators. He purposefully set up a class war. First he starts a revolution in Mexico knowing first hand how many the Russian one left dead, and then he bails out when it becomes hard.

No creative accusations needed.

Yep, memory jogged. Though it's still hard to bring up Mexico when Mexico's response is probably, "Viva Trotsky!" But the forced march is enough, I'd forgotten it.

If I were living ITTL, I'd probably appreciate his death, but as that's not the case, I'm fine with him being around.

Maybe he'll escape into exile again and really disappear. Australia, maybe. He and Churchill can get an apartment together; you know, one's messy, one's neat, before you know it there's tape down the middle of the room and hilarity ensues.
 
Aside from Oswald Mosley, who has his own reasons for wanting Trotsky kept under wraps, who else in the UK knows Trotsky was ever there?

Regarding the last post, it seems that greater American involvement is resulting in greater involvement by EVEG. A key way that TTL differs from ours is that IOTL US interests could be pushed in South America almost in a vacuum during the 1920s and 30s. ITTL there are other players in the game. As we finish the 1930s and get to the 1940s TTL South America could become the front lines between US and European interests.
 
Well let's look at this from both perspectives. Yes the forced march was an atrocity but Trotsky was not the only organizer. I remember that being one of the Chekists. But why were they forced to march East??? Also the Russian Revolution was filled with atrocities on both sides in OTL, I don't see that TTL was any different. Look the new Russian PM was a known terrorist. On Mexico, Mexico was primed for the revolution before Trotsky arrived. Villa, de la Rocha, and Mexicans were the main men in charge here. Trotsky simply worked behind the scenes in industry. Plus he helped organize the guerilla method, which saved Mexican lives. Also the Americans can be seen as one of the primal enemies ITTL so what he did there was not evil. On Britain again Trotsky only worked behind the scenes. Really didn't do much here either Moseley and the other Brits were the men in charge here. Also being there helped him discover the new idea of democratic revolution. I don't see Trotsky being very evil ITTL or OTL. At least Stalin died in the Revolution. Oh and I almost forgot the Cheka crime take over in America was the Chekists. Trotsky had only told them to wage war with America and try to start workers revolution here. What the Chekists did was on their own without him even knowing what was going on until later. I see Churchill deserving death much more than Trotsky ITTL. So, I say viva la Trotsky carry on thy work.
 
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