A Shift in Priorities

Status
Not open for further replies.
just wondering what is happening with all the Latino's who are living in the USA at the moment and what about the rest of central America I mean surely if America is devoting all its resources to northern Mexico what about places like Honduras, Guatemala etc.
 
Oh damn it. An army group-sized furball of combat and movement :eek: "Knife fight in a phone booth" seems to be a very apt description of the situation.

All that is missing is Mexican suicide commandos with explosive vests/belts.

Well, if this leads to McAdoo getting tossed out on his ass...
 
US Army. I am disappoint. *shakes head*

Would you hurry it the fuck up and kill your enemies? Honestly. It's like you're not even trying.
 
If word makes it to Central America I would think now would be the time for rebellions to flare up again there.

Based on McAdoo's reaction to the peace proposal, we can pretty safely say he knows the economy's fucked if he takes any action that jeopardizes war production. Now the question is, does he think the country's more fucked if it seeks peace, or is it more fucked if he ups the ante and calls for conscription (keeping in mind how deeply unpopular that seems to be.)

Barring a drastic change in circumstances on the ground in the next few days, I really don't think he's got any other choices.
 
US Army. I am disappoint. *shakes head*

Would you hurry it the fuck up and kill your enemies? Honestly. It's like you're not even trying.

Of course they are trying. In this situation, though, what looks like an enemy to kill is quite probably another US soldier.
 
the only way for the US to get out of this mess will be conscription (or was conscription already passed?)

but i think the US will emerge victorious in the end, of course how long they'll be able to hold on to their gains is another matter.
 
Well, frozen, as far as I could tell the goal of that offensive isn't to win.

It's just to not "lose".

The update before said the leadership doesn't think they can actually win, even if Europe gave them infinite aid.

They tried to use EVEG as an intermediary to arrange a peace that both sides could live with. The US said no so now they're trying a "grand gesture" to try to scare the anti-war elements of America into forcing McAdoo to arrange a peace deal. (I thought by this point they were supposed to be a pathetically small minority though.)

If the US decides to keep on fighting and again reject peace overtures, things are going to get worse for the Mexcians long before things ever get better. (I could actually see the offensive having the opposite of it's intended effect. Pissing off America even more and causing support for a called conscription.)

--------------------

Because really, the only real reason the Mexicans have been as successful as they have is because McAdoo is a fucking idiot who took FOREVER to even begin to take the Mexican Theater seriously.

He insisted on treating it as a low level disturbance rather than the conflict it really was, and made things a lot fucking worse in the short term, because he didn't want it to negatively effect his chances at re-election.

Since he was re-elected, he doesn't have to worry about that shit anymore. He might just stop being a fucktard. (Well, only in certain areas. He's still a douchenozzle.)
 
Well, frozen, as far as I could tell the goal of that offensive isn't to win.

It's just to not "lose".

The update before said the leadership doesn't think they can actually win, even if Europe gave them infinite aid.

Absolutely, it's just about to improve their bargaining power: the US will loose some territories and many lives and may get the impression that it's just not worth to continue the war - which I doubt would be the case.

If the US decides to keep on fighting and again reject peace overtures, things are going to get worse for the Mexcians long before things ever get better. (I could actually see the offensive having the opposite of it's intended effect. Pissing off America even more and causing support for a called conscription.)

I also expect conscription, and as a consequence a renewed great southern conquest - the third, isn't it? That shold bring some people to rethinking the whole approach. Nevertheless, in the current economic situation, coninuing the war is necessary to keep the economy going and conscription will only help that over the short term.

Over the long-term, conscription guarantees mass drug addiction and criminal behaviour as the conscripts will learn from the professionals. And whenever possible the remaining Mexicans will still fight back.


Because really, the only real reason the Mexicans have been as successful as they have is because McAdoo is a fucking idiot who took FOREVER to even begin to take the Mexican Theater seriously.

He insisted on treating it as a low level disturbance rather than the conflict it really was, and made things a lot fucking worse in the short term, because he didn't want it to negatively effect his chances at re-election.

True. But the best solution he might get IMHO is depopulating northern Mexico and building a closed frontier, whereas the rest of Mexico becomes a giant version of what the Gaza strip is for Israel IOTL...
 
[FONT=&quot]What we call peace, in most cases only is an armistice where the weaker antagonist waives his claims until he finds a new opportunity to assert them by force.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](Luc de Clapier Vauvenargues)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When, on July 21st, 1933, Mexican President Lázaro Cárdenas proposed an armistice to the US, one of his firmest supporters turned out to be General Douglas MacArthur, the Chief of Staff of the US Army.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“It’s the only chance we have for getting our units out of this mess as units in one piece. If the present chaos is allowed to continue, the US Army will perish as a fighting force. – There’s no danger to the integrity of our territory; the National Guard has been mobilized and will safeguard our borders. – But I must get what is left of USFIM out of Mexico for restructuring and refitting. – What we have there at present, is an armed mob but no longer a coherent military fighting force. – Let’s sign that damned armistice and get the troops out of Mexico!”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The McAdoo administration did not react very enthusiastically to this advance at first, but as July 21st progressed news from northern Mexico became gloomier and gloomier. In the evening, the total collapse of the three new corps had to be considered a fact. But also with I[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Armored[FONT=&quot] Corps, which had already been weakened seriously in the preceding weeks, the retreat appeared to have turned into a rout. – Thus, at 23:00 hours local time, MacArthur was asked to report to the White House.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When confronted with the reproach that the US Army had sucked, MacArthur exploded.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“We have nine army corps down there. That’s enough to man a continuous front line of about 350 miles in conventional warfare – and even if we allow that the Mexes are no Boches, and go for 700 miles –the real front line to be covered still is something like 1,500 miles. – Our highly mobile[/FONT][FONT=&quot] armor[FONT=&quot] we lost in the moronic Mexico City adventure. What is left is infantry, simple foot walking riflemen - overextended foot walking riflemen, tasked to guard a front line that would at least have required twenty army corps. – And, gentlemen, let me tell you one truth about foot walking infantry: Once they have been ousted from their positions, it’s almost impossible for them to settle into a new position, as long as the enemy is in hot pursuit. – If we had a second position manned with reserves, they could pass this and rally. – But we don’t have a second position, and we have no reserves...[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thus, gentlemen, in the present situation, an armistice is a very clever idea. It allows us marshalling the bits and pieces scrambling north – and reforming them into something like a coherent fighting force again.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Asked what the consequences of no armistice would be, MacArthur shrugged his shoulders.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Frankly, gentlemen, I’ve no idea. I do not know what can be salvaged from this mess. Neither do I know how long it will take to press these fragments into new forms. – The Spics are used to fight as guerrilla bands, our men are not. – We certainly won’t lose everything and everyone, but military units are quite fragile – and once broken – will take time to heal. Just do not suppose that we simply can turn these men around – and they’ll go on fighting. – There’s a considerable risk that USFIM will not be able to resume fighting. – Therefore, an armistice is very beneficial for us. It allows us to rally our forces without pressure from the Mexicans.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In the early morning of July 22nd, the US government agreed to enter negotiations about an armistice with the revolutionary government of Mexico.[/FONT]
 
Well, MacArthur finally got some reason into that administration. The US were defeated. A rematch is possible, yet requires some time. Normally, I would have expected one to two years. ITTL, I expect the economic situation to deteriorate quickly. It might be that domestic economic problems prevent a rematch for years to come.

Furthermore, without the war going on, I'm not sure whether McAdoo can reintroduce conscription, which is necessary for a rematch.

On the other side, I expect Mexico to do rather well economically. EVEG will invest as will other European companies, drug money will finance the rebuilding of infrastructure, no debt, the need to rebuild and to rearm and to keep a large conscript force...
 
Just how far gone do you have to be in order to have Douglas MacArthur be the voice of reason?

What part the Germans played in the Mexican war they did not do out of the goodness of their hearts. As in OTL they used someone else's war to field test military hardware. An Albatros fighter was mentioned, so was a Panzerfaust, very likely the gas masks fall into the same category and any other equipment brought in on those convoys. The US Army lucked out a bit in that had these event happened a few years later they would have been on the receiving end of the STG-44 analog of TTL. The German advisers and observers were likely testing out small and large unit tactics. They were also gathering first hand knowledge of the tactics and doctrine of the US Army. Just who is in charge of the German expeditionary force in Mexico?

This last offensive could prove to be a short and long term disaster for the US Army. The short term would come in the form of loss of esteem with the American public. After all, those disgruntled grunts didn't just fall from the sky. The belief could become widespread that the Army should clean up its own mess, this could be where Patton reappears. In the long term, the day could come when they find themselves facing a German Army trained specifically to smash them flat.
 
Last edited:
hmmm PM there you are suggesting something, Rast already got us a succeeding semi-Sealion maybe a balkanised US or a succesful Über-sealion (invasion of us) will be next?
 
[FONT=&quot]The way to make money is to buy when blood is running in the streets.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](John D. Rockefeller)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]While General Ruthven Smith, hastily returned from leave, met with Comandante Mena, also known as El Puño, at Monterrey in order to discuss the terms of an armistice, the dying and suffering in northern Mexico continued as both sides were desperately struggling to improve their situations before the clash of arms ended.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]However, there were men visiting the White House in Washington, who were worrying about other important things. – Now that the revolutionary government of Lázaro Cárdenas had become a dialogue partner of equal rank to the administration of the President of the United States – and peace talks soon might follow the armistice negotiations, it was of paramount interest to make sure that the US oil companies remained in business.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The situation was grave: In the worldwide scramble for oil, the US companies, progeny of the mighty Standard Oil Company, had been restricted to the Americas by adverse events after the end of the Great War.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Persian oil, originally controlled by the British APOC, had finally come under control of the Japanese Hokushinkai Mining Consortium, who also exploited the oil fields of Borneo and Sakhalin – and only recently had made a deal with the Kingdom Burma, securing the oil resources of that country as well, which before Indian independence had been shared by the British Burmah Oil Company and Standard Oil offsprings.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]All oil on the territory of the Ottoman Empire had fallen to the German EVEG, who also controlled the oil fields around the Caucasus and in Romania – and had only just financed the Bolivian war effort in order to gain access to the oil supposedly to be found in the Gran Chaco.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Dutch Shell Company – its British co-owners had relocated their accounts to Rotterdam at the advent of socialisation in Great Britain – owned the Sumatra oil fields – and had an initial purchase option on everything discovered in the former Dutch East Indies.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Russian oil fields between River Volga and the Ural Mountains, called Second Baku, were under Russian national control and not accessible for foreign companies.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]While the USA still were the largest oil producer worldwide, Mexico and Venezuela were number two and three, with a strong tendency that Venezuela was overtaking Mexico rapidly these days because of the severe damage inflicted on the Tuxpam oil wells.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In Venezuela, the revolutionaries – thankfully – had not nationalised or socialised the oil industry, but had chosen to live from the money provided by the oil companies. Here, the US companies and Shell were the prime owners. – But recent actions by the US Navy had triggered a Venezuelan appeal for help to Europe, and a tanker convoy had been sent.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Could the White House imagine that emissaries of the German EVEG had arrived in Venezuela with this convoy? Emissaries who were telling the wielders of power in Caracas that if they expropriated the oil wells now, EVEG would pay much more into the Venezuelan treasury than the US companies and Shell had done before, once EVEG was given the right of exploitation?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Did the White House know that emissaries of the German EVEG had only recently arrived in Mexico? That these gentlemen had been behind the peace proposals forwarded to the McAdoo administration by several New York bankers of German and Jewish origin? That these emissaries would easily offer excellent conditions to President Cárdenas for getting the title to rehabilitate the Tuxpam oil fields and exploit them together with the new fields discovered near Veracruz?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So, whatever the White House intended to do, it was paramount to secure the rights of exploitation in Mexico and Venezuela for the US companies. After all, US oil reserves were large, but definitely not infinite...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And the White House certainly was not keen on having major oil reserves in the Americas be controlled by that aggressive German trust?
[/FONT]
 
I remember that in TTL it was not Operation Sealion per-say. I don't remember what the name of the operation was but it worked because the German Army was invited in by one faction in the English CW. It remains one of the most plausible ways that such an occurrence could happen.

What I think might be shaping up is that at some point the US and Germany are going to go to war with each other again. When that happens it seems that the Germans plus their European and African allies have spent more time getting to know their possible opponents. On the other hand the tendency of the American public toward arrogance (American exceptionalism), provincialism and bigotry seem to be on full display. They don't really know their opponents because they don't feel they need to.

Some of the members of the US Navy probably know better because of the TAW but that would hardly be the majority opinion.

If the US somehow gets balkanized or makes a serious move on Canada we might see serious German involvement in North America but I think that its unlikely for either of those things to happen. A nasty proxy war somewhere else is more likely.
 
So the US gets driven to the bargaining table not by having Mexican guerrillas encroaching on the Rio Grande but by the thought getting cut off from oil in Central and South America. Ain't that just peachy.:rolleyes:
 
I'd laugh if EVEG managed to get drilling rights in Mexico and then stumbles in its attempts to corrupt and blackmail MExican officials, thus initiating the dismantling of the trust ;)
 
Top
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top