A Shift in Priorities

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Mexico city was a symbol by this point, nothing important was lost by its capture, the army and armored units lost are the real kick in the nuts for the US.

OTOH the annexation of Northern Mexico has begun, it seems they will be slow and methodical in "cleaning" their new conquests, no guerrillas or ocupattion this time, full colonization seems to be the future for northern Mexico
 
It's hardly an example of "Looks like the Americans are losing the war."

They're making sections of Mexico safe for themselves and making the rebels shoulder the burden of taking care of all the displaced people. (Which was noted as already causing them problems.)

It should also become harder to fuck with American supply lines.

And seeing as Mexico gets smaller the further south you go, the US can better concentrate it's forces as it goes along. (They could use the expulsion method to take big ass bite out of Mexico.)

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Or maybe I'm wrong . . . But trading Mexico City for safer operations in a nice big area is a good trade. Regardless of the lost men and material in Mexico City.
 
It's hardly an example of "Looks like the Americans are losing the war."

Indeed. The situation on the ground will improve considerably. If the US establish a closed perimeter along the frontier, we might see a persistent uneasy sort-of peace.

That is, however, the military situation. Public opinion will probably more be along Peabody-Martini's line of thinking. After all, the whole occupation of Mexico city and supporting it from air was militarily senseless from the beginning yet the McAdoo administration still wanted it. And they had their reasons.

In our judgement of the US approach we also shouldn't forget that ethnic cleansing ITTL is widespread and was also supported by Germany frequently. Probably the international community will not consider the US approach that evil. It's as always with the US ITTL: they are just one step further into evil.
 
Doesn't mean the US wouldn't cry "Foul!" if the situation was reversed and it was the Mexican army driving US citizens from their homes.

Plus, in Europe ethnic cleansing was mostly a tool to reduce ethnic strife in the long run (harsh as it may be), while from the US this is nothing more than an aggressive imperialist land-grab at the expense of another power.

Or at least that's how I could see certain parties or factions ("Why, hello there, Frau Luxemburg!") arguing in an attempt to increase the support for Mexico.

- Kelenas
 
It's certainly not going to help the Mexicans that they've effectively been forced into a kind of refugee crisis.

Now the rebels have to scramble to take care of all the people being kicked out of Northern Mexico, and the fact that this is going to make US Army operations much easier, on top of everything else.
 
I see that the US is essentially creating a new puppet state in the North Mexican Protectorate. With Canada also well in their pocket we could see the beginnings of a United States of North America. All that's left now is obliterating the Caribbean rebel factions. Bring the Gulf and the Caribbean back into the US pond. Instead of the whole EU thing we are seeing with economy in Europe ITTL. We could have the NAFTA turn into a military union. With the US at the top, Northern Mexico, Canada, the Caribbean and Central American protectorates as client states. It seems US could regain it's power base. Maybe we could see the rest of the 30's and early 40's as an interwar build-up. With TTL's WWII springing up in the Pacific or South America. As their could be more proxy wars in those areas. I can't wait to see.
 
NAFTA at gun point would not be the most stable union. Trying to hold on to sections of Northern Mexico would guarantee that this war will never end.

The strategic situation is that these areas are wide open, no natural frontier. So anyone attempting to settle or do business there would be open to attack. It would be down to heavily armed outposts surrounded by barbed wire in the desert. Ultimately it would be a net loss as everything would have to be shipped in and any mining or farming operation would be subject to the most extreme forms of sabotage. Also good luck finding labor.

The main reason I think that the collapse of the resistance in Mexico City will have a disproportionate impact in Washington is that it could be the last straw. The US has been in continuous crisis more or less since 1917. The TAW with its inconclusive ending. The Mexican war that has been absolutely corrosive in its effect on the US military and public. At this point said public is going to start looking for someone to blame and who's the obvious target of their wrath.
 
A Bit off Topic

I am currently reading the book India after Gandhi The history of the world's largest Democracy by Ramachandra Guha.

It is a great book that explains alot about India that I never knew. It is thorough (752 pages), and it certainly is a good read for anyone who is interested in India.

I have enjoyed the last couple of updates about mexico and Mittleafrika, but it seems India has only been mentioned once or twice so far.

I know that the subcontinent is divided up among several nations, but not much else. What are the nations? What are their religions?

An update on India would be nice. Perhaps a bit about Ireland too?

Wishing you well, his majesty,
The Scandinavian Emperor
 
The Germans?

I mean, even with the numbers disparity a big part of what let them take Mexico City the way they did was European supplies and munitions thanks to Luxemburg being a huge bitch.

The Mexicans wouldn't have had the kind of firepower they needed to crack the American armor without the Panzerfaust's and the like being supplied.

They also would have had a harder time of it without German pilots and German aircraft attacking the US aircraft responsible for keeping Mexico City supplied.

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Seriously . . . I think it'd be very easy to spin it as "Things would be going perfectly if it wasn't for those motherfucking Germans!"

One must remember that a Cold War has been hinted at, and this could be one of many things to feed the Us vs Them mentality between what will surely be North America and Europe.
 
Trying to hold on to sections of Northern Mexico would guarantee that this war will never end.

Probably. We'll likely see more terrorist attacks on the US. Given the general trend ITTL, quite soon the Latinos in the US will try to get out as everybody thinks they are drugdealing terrorists.

The strategic situation is that these areas are wide open, no natural frontier. So anyone attempting to settle or do business there would be open to attack. It would be down to heavily armed outposts surrounded by barbed wire in the desert. Ultimately it would be a net loss as everything would have to be shipped in and any mining or farming operation would be subject to the most extreme forms of sabotage. Also good luck finding labor.

Again, given the general trend of TTL, I expect McAdoo to propose building a wall that separates the US from those drugdealing terrorists. Yet another project that keeps the economy afloat for a while.

The main reason I think that the collapse of the resistance in Mexico City will have a disproportionate impact in Washington is that it could be the last straw. The US has been in continuous crisis more or less since 1917. The TAW with its inconclusive ending. The Mexican war that has been absolutely corrosive in its effect on the US military and public. At this point said public is going to start looking for someone to blame and who's the obvious target of their wrath.

McAdoo could have - and actually should have - fallen due to any of these crises you cite. It would be quite ironic if one of the first plans of him that actually could work out if handled properly (keeping northern Mexico as a largely empty buffer state and otherwise retreat aside from bombing raids) throws him out of office.
 
¡ HI ! ¡ SWEET !:D ¡ THANKS RAST FOR MÉXICO´S CITY UPDATE !:cool::).

As for myself because this update:

1.-For some short time, México maybe it be a nightmare because the numbers of displaced´s peoples because they need foood, water, clothes, etc.. but that peoples will it be the seed for mexican´s guerrillas and mexican´s armies for decades. And please belive me when i say than the mexican violent hate and deathly desires of revenge con continue for decades at least:eek::D:eek::D..

2.-The american army conquer a lot of desert, useless mountains, arid lands and not less... that zone are perfect for guerrilla´s wars for many, many time, and the irony is that the best zone for defense is the Rio Bravo frontier, oh the irony:D.

3.-Maybe this situation want and wish Cárdenas, a crubly, desmoralize american army wasting money for protecting one useless desert, whith guerrilla´s atacks and with cheap drugs provided by... you know.
 
Wars do not end wars anymore than an extraordinary large conflagration does away with the fire hazard.
(Henry Ford)

The annihilation of the 1st Armored Brigade in Mexico City became a big media event in the USA and was primped like a second Battle of the Alamo. The McAdoo administration, although well aware that only some units of the brigade had offered fierce resistance while others had quickly surrendered or simply had failed to rally, used this hype to bring another army and air force enhancement bill through congress.

The presence of strong army and air force units in the border areas did effectively cut off the Disgruntled Grunts from their supply of drugs – and thus substantially threatened their way of life. However, some clever guys soon figured out that what was growing in the Sierra Madre Occidental might also flourish in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada and the Ranges of California. Thus, while Omar Bradley and Alvin York still were nurturing dipsomaniac ideas of a future grunt republic in the Sierra Madre and were making plans how to follow up behind the advance of the army, several gangs were already starting farming marijuana and poppy in the Californian hills.

Despite the fact that the US Air Force was still routinely bombing Mexico City each night, President Lázaro Cárdenas and his government moved into the Mexican capital. Faced with the prospect of a humanitarian catastrophe caused by his displaced compatriots, Cárdenas asked for international aid – and tasked General Plutarco Elías Calles, who had created and was currently directing the Mexican military training organisation, with establishing a system that distributed, housed and nourished the displaced persons. With the aid of the Cruz Roja Mexicana, the Mexican Red Cross, Calles immediately went to work. International aid – if it were to arrive at all – would take too much time; a Mexican solution to this Mexican problem was the only thing that could help right now.

Conventional attacks on the US forces in San Luis Potosi and Tamaulipas only led to disproportionate losses because the US artillery shelled the attackers with a mixture of phosgene and explosives. Thus, order was given to stall all combat operations until the gas masks arrived with the European convoys had been distributed and the men been instructed in their use. – Only the guerrillas of El Moreno, who operated in the US occupied zone, were allowed to continue their activities.

Fra Miguel, who led the operations opposite the Yanquis in Sonora and Chihuahua, reported that the Gringos here had also started using poison gas when dealing with local resistance. When faced with armed residents resisting expulsion, the US infantry now regularly retreated out of range and the artillery shelled the town or village with poison gas. He had issued a warning not to offer armed resistance but this was not heeded by great many of the local people. While certainly easing the humanitarian stress on the Mexican side, the Yanquis probably were creating an epidemics problem – a multitude of corpses and dead animals left rotting was a certain invitation for diseases. On the other hand, he could not evacuate the population as that would mean doing the job for the Gringos.

The Cuadrilla Europea had taken up guarding Veracruz against US bombing raids. As a number of searchlights had arrived with the second convoy, they were experimenting with a night fighting system that illuminated the bombers for the fighters. Because the German armed forces had refused to supply Fumeo devices, this was a clumsy process – and much was left to sheer luck; but nevertheless, one or two bombing aircraft were falling victim to the system each night. Unfortunately, there were neither sufficient searchlights nor fighting aircraft available to establish a similar system in Ciudad de México; and President Cárdenas had decided that for the time being Veracruz had absolute priority.

News that BB-59 USS Florida and BB-60 USS Utah had been commissioned and that four more fast battleships were nearing completion were, however, alarming. If this construction tempo continued, the US Navy would numerically draw level with the combined Italo-German battle fleet by the end of the year. Then, sending convoys to Veracruz would most probably become impossible again. Right now, superiority in strike capability still compensated US superiority in numbers of cruisers, destroyers and other small vessels deployed.

For President Cárdenas the question how to arrive at negotiations with the McAdoo administration was of paramount importance. Even with European aid, Mexico was not capable of defeating the US; some kind of compromise had to be found. With the Tuxpam oil fields out of operation, there was nothing that was worth the American sacrifice in Mexico. – With the latest convoy, several gentlemen of the German EVEG had arrived and had had a look at the newly discovered Poza Rica oil field near Veracruz. Señor Emil Georg von Stauß, the head of this delegation, had made an office call with Cárdenas – and offered the services of his company to broker a peace agreement. One was very interested in rebuilding the Tuxpam oil fields and ready to offer excellent conditions to Mexico – but that required peace between the US and Mexico.
 
4.-The McAdoo´s administration bet all the cards and credibility of winning the war, because the succes of the peace gained in México´s city, and i bet that a lot of decent good american citizens and some important american politics are questioning the " southern nightmare ":D or at least the McAdoo´s administration, how many errors are needed for acepting that maybe it be going to lose that war, or some how to say, impechment trial against McAdoo, or some big political fight/constitutional crysis:eek::cool:.

5.-Because that México´s city disaster, a lot of american armament are in hands of mexican army and guerrillas, and i bet that it be shooting that american bullets against...:rolleyes:.

6.-This epic defeat maybe it be creating inmense waves of how to say, blames, guiltys inside the american army, marines, etc.. because this situation maybe, and say maybe Patton will see as a visionary who see this disaster and quit in perfect time...:rolleyes:.

7.-And for last, how many american´s disasters are necesary how to say for blow, for creating the great great depresion, how many tragedies are necesary for the american citizens for finnally " open their eyes ";) about the deep epic meltdown that are living:eek:, how many disasters are needed for discover that McAdoo´s administration are a total faillure;), and for last, the big question: in what moment/situation will see that good America of this timeline are turning to darkness, you know...;):eek::(.

Peace, good night and good luck:).
 
Looking forward to seeing the first US soldiers catch a nasty bug from all the corpses they are generating :mad:
It's one thing to defend against attacks while expelling people from their homes. Gassing whole villages because they are resisting unlawful actions is another. And this cannot be explained away by "sign of the times". The US is straddling the border between barely acceptable hands-on power politics and plain old genocide.

Also, EVEG again. And insinuating themselves into what should exclusively be an affair between governments. Maybe this arrogant act might serve as a wake-up call to higher German officials that EVEG has become too big and powerful already?
 
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Also this might be an indication of what Bmao suggested, that EVEG has american connections already. How else would they be able to intermediate between Mexico and the us.
And I agree EVEG gets way too big and powerful. I think its a matter of time before EVEG will try to seize power in some country, so they will not only be in power de facto (like in many areas already) but also in power de jure.
They might try to do this to create a safe haven for them.
 

abc123

Banned
About Bolivia- Paraguay war, could the USA easily surpress the war by influencing Chile and Argentina not to allow transport of war material and advisers from Europe? After all, niether Bolivia nor Paraguay have acess to the sea...
 
Looking forward to seeing the first US soldiers catch a nasty bug from all the corpses they are generating :mad:
It's one thing to defend against attacks while expelling people from their homes. Gassing whole villages because they are resisting unlawful actions is another. And this cannot be explained away by "sign of the times". The US is straddling the border between barely acceptable hands-on power politics and plain old genocide.

Agreed. Poison gas against civilians indeed makes a huge difference.

Also, EVEG again. And insinuating themselves into what should exclusively be an affair between governments. Maybe this arrogant act might serve as a wake-up call to higher German officials that EVEG has become too big and powerful already?

Probably the contrary if EVEG succeeds and deliver peace for Mexico and a decent development plan of the country. If EVEG promises railways and streets and jobs, even Luxemburg will be grateful.

For that matter, we really need to know how living under the heel of EVEG is. Do they abuse the local population or do they "merely" bribe their leaders? Do they invest in the country for the long-term (at least in Mittelafrika and their protectorate it seems so) or do they merely extract raw materials at low prices? Do they use their armed forces simply as guards in insecure areas or do they abuse their power?

I'm fully in support of bringing down EVEG, but so far this is mainly from economic reasons to avoid cartels. Corruption will not fade with EVEG partitioned into several smaller firms, I can't really blame them for doing what seems to be normal business in the mining sector. I can't really blame them for having guards - many firms do. But do they use them for guarding their property or do they use them as a private army bullying around the locals?
 

abc123

Banned
The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it.
(George Orwell)

The McAdoo administration had no intention of following Admiral Bagley’s ideas. The army corps relieved in the Caribbean would be used to occupy Chihuahua, Sonora and Baja California. On May 1st, 1933, III Corps advanced into Baja California, meeting only weak opposition. On May 3rd, IV Corps, with two mountain divisions, pushed forward into Sonora; and one day later. VI Corps crossed the border to Chihuahua.

Mexican resistance was reported to be nominal only. This had been expected, the Mexican forces were considered unable to match the US Army in open battle. They would resort to guerrilla warfare – as always. But this time, the US were going to empty the pond in which the guerrillas were swimming: The civilian population was expelled. In long columns, supervised by US soldiers, civilians were marched south and released into the areas not yet controlled by US forces. In Baja California, a US ferry service was installed that started transporting Mexicans to Sinaloa.

Ousting civilians from their homes was a tedious task, therefore US advance was slow – and slowed down further with each mile covered. Of course, people – civilians and guerrillas – tried to hide somewhere in the wilderness and had to searched and hunted down. – And seeing what the Gringos were up to, more and more civilians went for their weapons – after the initial surprise had worn off.

While the Mexican commanders had expected the US attack knowing where the corps relieved in the Caribbean had been re-deployed, they were utterly surprised by the expulsions. These were most unpleasant because the displaced compatriots overstrained the system, which threatened to collapse. They would also ultimately deprave the guerrillas the opportunity to operate in the US occupied areas.
It was, however, observed that II and V US Corps in Coahuila, Nuevo León and Tamaulipas had not yet started expulsing Mexican citizens, and that I Armored Corps in San Luis Potosi and Mexico City was behaving likewise.
A smart US policy...
;)
 
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