A Sápmi state
- Thread starter Shtudmuffin
- Start date
Yes, it would be. But nothing with borders like that, and I seriously doubt the long-term survival of it. You'd primarily be looking at the inland areas of Northern Norway/Sweden/Finland. North of the Arctic Circle, and probably less territory in the costal areas.
This area has historically been of fluent/undefined borders, and a lot of wilderness as far as the Scandinavians have been concerned. Before the modern age, the projecting of power here has been difficult, and frankly rather uninteresting and unrewarding. Nomads are a pretty diffuse lot, and as long as Scandinavians got the Lofoten fisheries, theres been very little of economic or strategic interest here. Some fur trade, but nothing you can't get elsewhere.
All of which starts to change around 1800 or so.
Fundamentally, before that you can have a small Saami state as long as you stay away from the Lofoten and south of there coast, because no-one is interested enough to put up the effort to stop you.
Why would the Saami want a state, though? The climate here does not support the agriculture for much in the way of a settled population, pre-potato. I'd go with pressure from some other people leading to some Shaka Zulu-like figure. Or maybe the survival of some remnant of Bjarmland (or Kvænland, but thats probably too far south) slowly diffused into Saami majorities.
To be honest, my suggestion for a POD would be about 500 AD. Have the aggressive intrusion of Saami-speaking people from the east result in a pushback leading to more aggressive cultural traits in the actual Saami people.
(Yes, confusing. The Saami language is actually not the original language of the Saami people, it replaced the original language way back when. And then the new language was named for the Saami people by Europeans, confusing everything.)
Eh, there were people still running pagan Norse sacrifices around Egersund till the 1880s.
Anyway, I am told the Saami/Norse settlement issue is even more complex than that. The Saami and Norse have flexed over this area for thousands of years. In periods with warm climate, the Norse agricultural package expands and covers more land. When the climate cools, the Saami nomadic lifestyle outcompetes it somewhat and the Saami expand into areas the Norse have abandoned after one too many crop failiure.
Would it be possible for the Sami people (the Lapplanders) of Northern Scandinavia to form their own nation sometime in the Middle Ages? Perhaps one that stretched from central Norway to the Kola Peninsula, and centered in Murmansk?
By the way, I would guess that its borders would look something like this:
Those bordere are way too large, even back then the sami were not the majority in most of those areas. If you get them to settel down, and you get the kven agricultural packet, maybe you can get a sami state north of lofoten.
What about this map? I made it myself... so it isn't cleaned up that well, sorry.
(And I used this map from Wikipedia)
EDIT: It's a Medieval puppet state of Finland, by the way...
(And I used this map from Wikipedia)
EDIT: It's a Medieval puppet state of Finland, by the way...
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This is an alternate flag for a potential Sápmi puppet state of Finland (the one with the Nordic Cross), animated together with the 'real' Sápmi flag (the one with the circle).
And here're a few other attempts...
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What about this map? I made it myself... so it isn't cleaned up that well, sorry.
(And I used this map from Wikipedia)
EDIT: It's a Medieval puppet state of Finland, by the way...
How did Finland seize Finnmark?
I mean if all of that land belongs to Finland, I'd be curious on how they got a bit of Norrland and Finnmark from Sweden and Norway respectably.How did Finland seize Finnmark?
Hmm, well, let's say I still have to think of a plausible reason...
What about this map? I made it myself... so it isn't cleaned up that well, sorry.
(And I used this map from Wikipedia)
EDIT: It's a Medieval puppet state of Finland, by the way...
I made a new map, showing major cities as well.
Romsa (Tromsø) is the capital. And in addition, I removed Hammerfest from the Sápmi Republic, because I thought it would be a too important harbour for the Sami to capture. I know it isn't a very big city nowadays, but anyway - maybe just to make it less 'boring'.
This is a sort of small timeline I made:
The Sami, together with the Finns, were able to annex Tromsø, which at the time had not as much inhabitants as today, of course, by invading it from the east. After that, they cut off Tromsø from the rest of Norway, and thus cut of the city's supply. After a short belligerence, the city was captured - and the Sami had had help from the Sami within Romsa, which the city was officially named after this.
The Norwegians and Swedes became a respected minority in Sami; they were treated without any form of discrimination and had equal voting rights.
By the year 1870, the Norwegians and Swedes had 'disappeared' into the society; that is, they married with Sami and got mixed children, these children again got children with Sami partners etc. etc. Nevertheless, Norwegian or Swedish origin stayed highly respected.
Besides, the Kvens were also treated with full respect and the same thing happened with them, as with the other minorities.
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I made a mistake... I wanted to use Northern Sami as language for the cities, but being a bit inconsequent, I wrote Inari as Aanaar, which is Inari Sami and not Northern Sami, so it should be Anár.
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Damn, those drunkard Sami are holding Kittilä! They've got some gold on their hands if they can be bothered to mine for it.
Damn, those drunkard Sami are holding Kittilä! They've got some gold on their hands if they can be bothered to mine for it.
That's true... indeed it isn't all that plausible, but it does sound good, doesn't it? And you can never have too much fantasy and imagination!
Oh, and Kittilä is Gihttel in Northern Sami, for your information.
Thanks! Actually, I now have posted more on this thread than you
... that's just because it's such an interesting one!By the way, my maps are far not as good as they should be, as others on this forum make them, but I'm having a test week this week, so I don't have much time. Today is the last day I need to learn for a test... Next week I'll probably able to contribute with better maps and flags...
Damn, those drunkard Sami are holding Kittilä! ...
Is it a coincidence that both of you started with "Damn,..."?
Is it a coincidence that both of you started with "Damn,..."?
I am a very damning person.
But no, there is no connection. Just like to use damn. It's DAMN good.
The extent of the state seems much more reasonable. I do notice that the map follows the current-day boundaries of Russia closely though. Major cities is an issue, I'd imagine that there would still be little urbanization going on. Mainly at the cost, where fishing and whaling can substitute for agriculture as a major food source.
The only way such a state could survive into the 1800s is with a strong sponsor nation to protect it from the far more populous Scandinavians. (Unless Scandinavia is utterly balkanized?) Whith a Finland that is much stronger than OTL working as the protector, I think Tromsø may not work out as a capital.
We are very close to the Lofoten area, and the approach from land is much longer than it looks on a map. The Scandinavian nations are going to be projecting power from the sea, whereas the Saami power will probably be based around inland mobility. Finland is going to be unable to project seapower in the area unless it is expanded to incluse areas like Murmansk.
It wouldn't be the fist time in history a capital has been situated in such a position, and it may well work as long as Finland is massivly strong, but any time they go through a period of weakness...
Makes sense, they are Finnish immigrants. Note that they are latecomers to the area in any numbers OTL.
Thanks, and, true, the coast will be very important for the Saami (I'm learning to use Saami instead of Laplanders, since I read that they don't appreciate the latter name).
That's true... I'll have to think about that...
But, I, personally, wouldn't like to have it include Russian areas, as I'd make these areas part of a 'Kola Republic'... By the way, it now kind of seems as if it's 'my' thread, which isn't the case - but I've subscribed, because I may want to have a Saami state in the alternate history world of my novel, which I'm going to write soon, too.Well, we'll have to hope that Finland will remain strong enough, then...
Okay, thanks.