The beginning 1473-1477
At the beginning of 1473 the 24 years old Nicholas of Anjou married the almost 16 years old Mary of Burgundy, dying less than two years later and leaving his young widow, pregnant with their second child, and their son Charles, only few months old, in the care of her father Charles the Bold, Duke of Burgundy (who acquired the rule of Lorraine as regent for his grandson).
A couple of years later Charles the Bold made a deal with Emperor Frederick III getting the crown of Lotharingia for himself and his heirs in exchange for a big sum (as payment for the crown) and Mary's remarriage to Frederick's heir Maximilian (with a big dowry, signed to remain to the groom also in case of Mary's death without more children).
Mary's remarriage and specially Charles' elevation from Duke of Burgundy to King of Lotharingia, aroused the ire of Louis XI, King of France, who was still being unable to stop them.
Louis XI valued the opportunity of a military action but rejected that, fearing to being circled by his enemies as Charles I of Lotharingia renewed his English alliance (offering his granddaughter Isabelle as bride for the Prince of Wales and his grandson Charles, Duke of Lorraine as groom for Anne of York) while the Duke of Brittany and likely other French nobles would be ready to join them and choose to wait the right moment for his move, reminding to Edward IV of England who some reckless actions would be the end of French payments and more important of the betrothal between Elizabeth of York and the Dauphin.
 
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Isabella I think you've got the dates wrong. Mary would have been 15 in 1472, for example. And the threadmark title has them as "1773-1337" which strikes me as wrong.

And good start!
 
Would not the contemporary English name be Lorraine rather than Lotharingia? I don't recall the two being differentiated until later.
I suspect the title would be King of Lorraine with the Duchy resuming the term Upper Lorraine and then Nether/Lower Lorraine coming back into use for the low countries (perhaps replacing Brabant/Lothier?)
 
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Isabella I think you've got the dates wrong. Mary would have been 15 in 1472, for example. And the threadmark title has them as "1773-1337" which strikes me as wrong.

And good start!
Dates adjusted and I had forgotten who Mary was born in February so, while she married in January, she was close enough to her birthday.

Would not the contemporary English name be Lorraine rather than Lotharingia? I don't recall the two being differentiated until later.
I suspect the title would be King of Lorraine with the Duchy resuming the term Upper Lorraine and then Nether/Lower Lorraine coming back into use for the low countries (perhaps replacing Brabant/Lothier?)
Possibly, but Charles want the old title and Frederick is inclined to satisfy him (as Charles is paying him a lot, between direct payment, Mary's dowry and a lifetime's revenue for Maximilian). Also, with Lorraine already under his rule (as he is the regent for the Duke, who is his grandson and heir) he is disinclined to exchange his Burgundy title for one related to Lorraine so in the end he got the Lotharingia denomination
 
Possibly, but Charles want the old title and Frederick is inclined to satisfy him (as Charles is paying him a lot, between direct payment, Mary's dowry and a lifetime's revenue for Maximilian). Also, with Lorraine already under his rule (as he is the regent for the Duke, who is his grandson and heir) he is disinclined to exchange his Burgundy title for one related to Lorraine so in the end he got the Lotharingia denomination
I didn't explain myself well. What I'm saying is that Lorraine should be synonymous with Lotharingia at this time (and v.v). Lorraine being the French, Lotharingia the Latin. Upper Lorraine = Haute Lorraine = Lotharingia Superioris.
So Rex Lotharingiae would naturally be translated as King of Lorraine.
 
I didn't explain myself well. What I'm saying is that Lorraine should be synonymous with Lotharingia at this time (and v.v). Lorraine being the French, Lotharingia the Latin. Upper Lorraine = Haute Lorraine = Lotharingia Superioris.
So Rex Lotharingiae would naturally be translated as King of Lorraine.
Well maybe we will see now the splitting between the two names?
 
Well maybe we will see now the splitting between the two names?
Considering the synonymosity (if that's a word) I suspect you might get the Kingdom referred to as "of Lotha(i)r". Perhaps from the phrasing that Charles obtained the Crown of Lotha(i)r?
So, Rex Lotharii, Roi de Lothair/Lother, King of Lotha(i)r, König Lothares etc?
Excellent start!!! As for Lotharingia itself, I think it could work, as it has older and more prestigious connotations than Lorriane...
It doesn't have those connotations at the time this is happening though. Hence why I'm raising this bugbear of mine.
 
Considering the synonymosity (if that's a word) I suspect you might get the Kingdom referred to as "of Lotha(i)r". Perhaps from the phrasing that Charles obtained the Crown of Lotha(i)r?
So, Rex Lotharii, Roi de Lothair/Lother, King of Lotha(i)r, König Lotharen etc?

It doesn't have those connotations at the time this is happening though. Hence why I'm raising this bugbear of mine.
Possible, but we are talking about a timeframe of 10/15 years as Charles II will have no trouble in being know as King of Lorraine... I guess Charles I will go with Lotharingia, after him his heirs will use the modern Lorraine
 
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Possible, but we are talking about a timeframe of 10/15 years as Charles II will have no trouble in being know as King of Lorraine... I guess Charles I will go with Lotharingia, after him his heirs will use the modern Lorraine
Good point. Apologies for the interruption!
 
I vote we call him "King of Lotharingia". Sounds much cooler.
Charles I will be of Lotharingia, Charles II and heirs will have no reason for rejecting the denomination of Lorraine

Good point. Apologies for the interruption!
Do not worry. Is just who I can NOT see Charles the Bold calling himself King of Lorraine, but Charles II is "of Lorraine" since birth as that was his father's Duchy so...
 
Charles I will be of Lotharingia, Charles II and heirs will have no reason for rejecting the denomination of Lorraine


Do not worry. Is just who I can NOT see Charles the Bold calling himself King of Lorraine, but Charles II is "of Lorraine" since birth as that was his father's Duchy so...
Tbf there wouldn't be any difference since Rex Lotharingiae means both King of Lorraine and King of Lotharingia. There's no differentiation at the time as Lotharingia had the same meaning as Lorraine, Lothringen, Lottringen, etc, etc. Only later on did historians start using the Latin word to only mean the Kingdom and not the Duchies, and the word was adopted into French, German Dutch, as different from their words for Lorraine.
That's my point about the translation: both Charleses would call themselves Rex Lotharingia, Roi de Lorraine, etc but not Roi de Lotharingia.
Now Charles the Bold could be calling himself Rex Lotharii if he's distinguishing the Regnum Lotharingiae from the Ducatus Lotharingiae (Superior/Inferioris).
 
Tbf there wouldn't be any difference since Rex Lotharingiae means both King of Lorraine and King of Lotharingia. There's no differentiation at the time as Lotharingia had the same meaning as Lorraine, Lothringen, Lottringen, etc, etc. Only later on did historians start using the Latin word to only mean the Kingdom and not the Duchies, and the word was adopted into French, German Dutch, as different from their words for Lorraine.
That's my point about the translation: both Charleses would call themselves Rex Lotharingia, Roi de Lorraine, etc but not Roi de Lotharingia.
Now Charles the Bold could be calling himself Rex Lotharii if he's distinguishing the Regnum Lotharingiae from the Ducatus Lotharingiae (Superior/Inferioris).
With a Lotharingia title Charles I can use King of all Lorraines, instead? Charles II would still go back to King of Lorraine...
 
Mary and Maximilian 1477-1482
Archduke Maximilian of Austria married Mary of Burgundy in 1477, shortly before her father's elevation as King of Lotharingia and the few years of their wedding were a very good period for both of them: Mary's greatest fear before her remarriage was related to a possible death of her father before her little Charles was old enough to rule, leaving her and her children undefended from the French King while Maximilian appreciated a lot the splendor of the Burgundian court, but more than anything else his beautiful bride and the strength of her character, as he cared much more for her and for his stepchildren (his relationship with Charles and Isabelle of Lorraine would be strong for all their lives and he would be always their father figure) than for the financial security who the wedding guaranteed to him.
The only shadow on their happiness was the death of their little sons Philip (born in 1480) and Francis (born in 1481) killed by an illness at the end of 1481, leaving their firstborn Margaret (born in 1479) and called after Mary's beloved step-mother as their only living child.
Still Maximilian was secure who he would have soon an heir of his own and who all the shadow would disappear soon, blissfully unaware of the tragedy who would soon destroy his life when Mary was killed after falling from her horse during a hunt, leaving her children motherless and her husband, father and stepmother destroyed by her death.
 
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Oh no, poor Mary and Maximillian.. Max probably won't want to, but at some point he'll have to remarry to get a living son or two... I wonder who will be regent for little Charles.... Great job!
 
Oh no, poor Mary and Maximillian.. Max probably won't want to, but at some point he'll have to remarry to get a living son or two... I wonder who will be regent for little Charles.... Great job!
Sadly Mary died as OTL leaving her family destroyed. Charles the Bold is still alive (he had no reason to be killed in a war against the Duke of Lorraine, when ATL he is regent for that Duke, who is his own grandson and heir presumptive) and he is ruling Lorraine in name of little Charles since Nicholas' death and has still some years of life.
Still Charles is only 8 years old and Isabelle 7, and they have lost both their parents now, so they would cling a lot to Maximilian, Charles the Bold and Margaret of York. Little Marguerite who is 3 would end clinging a lot to her father and soon to her stepmother, who will be the only mother she will know...
Max will remarry soon as he needs an heir and soon both his father and father-in-law will urge him to remarry, in particular Charles will need Maximilian's remarriage for persuading a somewhat reluctant ally to join him in war
 
Sadly Mary died as OTL leaving her family destroyed. Charles the Bold is still alive (he had no reason to be killed in a war against the Duke of Lorraine, when ATL he is regent for that Duke, who is his own grandson and heir presumptive) and he is ruling Lorraine in name of little Charles since Nicholas' death and has still some years of life.
Still Charles is only 8 years old and Isabelle 7, and they have lost both their parents now, so they would cling a lot to Maximilian, Charles the Bold and Margaret of York. Little Marguerite who is 3 would end clinging a lot to her father and soon to her stepmother, who will be the only mother she will know...
Max will remarry soon as he needs an heir and soon both his father and father-in-law will urge him to remarry, in particular Charles will need Maximilian's remarriage for persuading a somewhat reluctant ally to join him in war
I wonder...is Maximilian's next bride Elizabeth of York? An Imperial crown for his daughter would surely be the only way to draw Edward IV away from that French gold.
 
Besides French, who would notice change of Lorraine's into Lotharingia? In German for example that region's name is Lothringen and many languages use name derived from Latin or German rather than French for Lorraine and thus would not notice any difference.
 
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