A quick poll

Is it possible?

  • Yes

    Votes: 38 19.4%
  • No

    Votes: 158 80.6%

  • Total voters
    196
I can find no evidence that the RAF had any plans to withdraw fighter squadrons further north

This should tell you who was winning. I find it particularly exhilarating that the Fighter Command pilots should be exhausted, when they were the ones who got regularly rotated to the North for rest and refit, while the German fighter pilots, who stayed in the fray indefinitely, never get tired.

Read the old threads, you'll find your answers there.
 
You know, Friedrich Ruge provides exactly those numbers. So I wouldn't call them misinformation. And he doesn't call that "calculated requirements". He calls that what was available on the date requested.

He adds "there was no hope of success".

He adds that some 10% of the available tonnage had been sunk or damaged by the RAF by early September.
I think you may have misread my original text, someone mentioned that the invasion fleet contained "170 cargo ships, 1277 barges and 471 tugs" where the only source I found for these figures was in a study written by Alison Brooks. These figures are the misinformation the ones I quoted were "155 transport steamers (700,000 Gross Tonnes), 1722 barges, 471 sea going tugs and 1161 motor boats." which I believe to be correct. The quote I provided also acknowledges that there were many losses caused by both the RN and RAF ... but that despite this the required shipping was still available. I'm not quite sure what Friedrich Ruge, a Commodore in charge of mine sweeping operations in 1940, has to do with this apart from possibly his involvement in the 1974 Sandhurst Sea Lion wargame. I unfortunately also can't find anything he wrote about Sea Lion and would love to find out more as it sounds like he could possibly shed some more light on this issue.

So, since we have sources from the German side of things, on the issue of German equipment, you prefer British intelligence estimates? Come on.
I'm not quite sure what the point is here, I have always been told that the more sources of research you have the better, it gives the reader more chances to make their own conclusions. Maybe I should have stated that the British intelligence figures may be a little on the high side but give a good indication of the scale of vessels available.

Yeah sure, the initial plan. The Heer's plan. Ever wondered why it was scrapped?
My understanding of the Armies plan was that the first wave was always 90,000 troops, a figure that was agreed by the Navy who then prepared the required invasion fleet ... as far as I am aware it was not scrapped. The issue was with subsequent waves and it wasn't a question of transport ships but in the capacity of the loading facilities, they just couldn't cope with the extra shipping required to take the second wave of 170,000 in one go. The plan was to start transporting the second wave in smaller waves landing in England between D-Day +2 to +10.
 
This should tell you who was winning. I find it particularly exhilarating that the Fighter Command pilots should be exhausted, when they were the ones who got regularly rotated to the North for rest and refit, while the German fighter pilots, who stayed in the fray indefinitely, never get tired.

Read the old threads, you'll find your answers there.
I'm actually doing a scientific study on this one as we speak using as much information as I can find. One interesting point here is that the rotation system was not working which is why fighter command changed tack in early September as it was recognised that tired experienced pilots were still more effective than fresh inexperienced pilots.
 
If you want to look at ways to make a Sea Lion possible then your best bet is a POD at some point earlier that year. For example, a failure of the Dunkirk evacuation or the Germans successfully seizing the French navy. But without any POD prior to the invasion itself then there does seem to be a fairly overwhelming body of evidence (such as the post war military simulations of the invasion) that Sea Lion would have ultimately been a failure.
 
Biggles said:
failure of the Dunkirk evacuation or the Germans successfully seizing the French navy.
Even that doesn't save it, because the shipping to put them, & the supplies, ashore just didn't exist.
 
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