A question about presidential succession in the US

I won't mince words: the question I've been asking myself is, what if the President dies and there is no Vice President in office (pre-whatever amendment stated that there must always be a Vice President)? Does the President pro tempore of the Senate become President (as if a President without a Vice President is impeached), or is there some other method? Would it require establishing a precedent? Is there a new election called?
 

Thande

Donor
Nowadays the presidency would go to the Speaker of the House of Representatives. Prior to them changing the line of succession (shortly after WW2 if I remember correctly) it would go to the Secretary of State.

There is no precedent for a special presidential election in US constitutional law.
 
Nowadays the presidency would go to the Speaker of the House of Representatives. Prior to them changing the line of succession (shortly after WW2 if I remember correctly) it would go to the Secretary of State.

There is no precedent for a special presidential election in US constitutional law.

Really? The Secretary of State? That sounds a bit… odd, especially since I thought the line of succession was the same whether the President died or was removed from office. And considering that it's an unelected office (but then again, so are most), I could see many people objecting; John Adams, for one, would be turning in his grave.

I knew the latter bit; however, I remembered that upon Harrison's death, there were some suggesting that Tyler should become Acting President and only serve until a special election could be held.
 
I had to research the same problem when I was writing my TL. From what I can remember, there have been three different orders of succession: the one today, the one Thande mentioned before that, and before that, one where the president pro tempore of the Senate takes over if the president died and there is no sitting vice president. The president pro tempore was first in line until sometime after the Civil War, when it was changed to the Secretary of State. Especially if you're writing a civil war TL, you can have all kinds of fun having your president killed off and replaced by a president pro tempore who favored policies that are diametrically opposed to the late president.;)
 
Really? The Secretary of State? That sounds a bit… odd, especially since I thought the line of succession was the same whether the President died or was removed from office. And considering that it's an unelected office (but then again, so are most), I could see many people objecting; John Adams, for one, would be turning in his grave.

True, but the current line of succession (i.e. with the Speaker and Pres Pro Tem as 2nd and 3rd in the line of succession) also means that the Presidency could pass to someone from the other party, which would also cause a great deal of objection. Carl Albert, the Democratic Speaker of the House during the Nixon Impeachment, was terrified that Nixon might resign before the Vice-Presidential vacancy (caused by Agnew's own resignation) was filled. Albert apparently decided that if he did become President, he would stay around only long enough for a Republican VP to be confirmed, and then resign the Presidency.
 
Really? The Secretary of State? That sounds a bit… odd, especially since I thought the line of succession was the same whether the President died or was removed from office.

It is the same.

And considering that it's an unelected office (but then again, so are most), I could see many people objecting; John Adams, for one, would be turning in his grave.

Hardly; Secretary of State was commonly a springboard to the Presidency.

Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, JQ Adams, and Van Buren were all SoS and then President; five of the first 10 SoSs and five of the first eight Presidents.

Other early SoSs included former and future Presidential candidate Henry Clay, former Vice President Calhoun, future President James Buchanan, and former Presidential candidate Lewis Cass.

I knew the latter bit; however, I remembered that upon Harrison's death, there were some suggesting that Tyler should become Acting President and only serve until a special election could be held.

The original succession law provided for a new election in the case of double vacancy, with the president pro tem as "acting President". It was changed in 1886, with succession going to Cabinet members only and the provision for new elections dropped. In 1947 the law was revised again to the present status: Speaker, president p.t., then the Cabinet.

One little known factoid. At the time of the 1916 election, U.S. foreign affairs were in a state of on-going crisis, with the imminent possibility of war. It occurred to incumbent President Wilson that if he were defeated for re-election (as nearly happened), the resulting three months of "lame-duck" government could be ruinous. He therefore decided that if he was defeated, he would appoint the Republican President-elect (Charles Evans Hughes) as Secretary of State, and then he and Vice President Marshall would both resign. Hughes would become President immediately, avoiding that dangerous delay.
 
Incidentally, The original choice of the President pro-tem was a compromise. Federalists proposed the Chief Justice (John Jay) while Jeffersonians advocated the Sectretary of State, who just happened - surprise, surprise - to be Jefferson.

After 1801, of course, the Jefferson Administration could have amended the 1792 Act in accordance with their original desires, but never bothered to do so. If they had, this could have had consequences in 1868, since Andrew Johnson's immediate successor would not have been Ben Wade, but Secretary Seward - or if he refused then Treasury Secretary Hugh McCulloch. With a less controversial successor, Johnson might well have been out on his ear.
 
Last edited:
Top