A Prosperous Qing Dynasty: 1875 - 1900

You make some good points.
Keep in mind that in this alternate timeline where Dowager Empress Cixi died, I have Prince Gong become regent and rule along side Dowager Empress Ci'an until her death. This way so the Qing could have a better course of action in terms of modernization, even if it's only the military and such.
I chose the German model for a constitutional monarchy simply because unlike the British model, the monarch still held actual executive power. I felt like it would add to and compliment the Qing status quo because of it. Plus, Li Hongzhang was sometimes dubbed "The Yellow Bismarck" which lead me to believe he would make a promising choice for Chancellor, a title that has existed in past dynasties, but with different functions.
I'm Actually considering and having a German tutor come to China and teach Guangxu based on what Richard V has said.
Plus, I may drop the whole Hawaii thing.

I like how you said Cixi wasn't a hag and such because she wasn't. The Qing ruling class never saw themselves as bad. They just didn't recognize their flaws.
I'm sure they could've adopted a system that would coexist with the status quo.
No they wouldn't accept the German system.
Even after their OTL defeat in Sino-Japanese war and the rise of Republican revolutionaries,they were still very unwilling to accept even a more autocratic and conservative constitution.
You should really learn about the 预备立宪(Preparation for Constitution ) and 皇族内阁(Cabinet of Princes)in the last years of Qing which showed how sincere they were for political reform————Spoiler: not very much.
 
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I would want to pull off another timeline vivisection, but I think I should just sum up what I am seeing, concisely:

This timeline needs to be rethought ENTIRELY.
 
No they wouldn't accept the German system.
Even after their OTL defeat in Sino-Japanese war and the rise of Republican revolutionaries,they were still very unwilling to accept even a more autocratic and conservative constitution.
You should really learn about the 预备立宪(Preparation for Constitution ) and 皇族内阁(Cabinet of Princes)in the last year's of Qing which showed how sincere they were for reform————Spoiler: not very much.
To be fair, people on their death beds are often unwilling to try new treatments. The Sino-Japanese War was so bad for Qing prestige radical reforms at that point would only hasten collapse.
 
No they wouldn't accept the German system.
Even after their OTL defeat in Sino-Japanese war and the rise of Republican revolutionaries,they were still very unwilling to accept even a more autocratic and conservative constitution.
You should really learn about the 预备立宪(Preparation for Constitution ) and 皇族内阁(Cabinet of Princes)in the last year's of Qing which showed how sincere they were for reform————Spoiler: not very much.
After reading your comment, I decided to look them up. It's quite interesting to read.
While I am thinking about it, based on what you've said, the Qing could see a boost in modernization in industry and military, just not in politics.
 
And that's what I'll be doing. The gears in my brain are already turning.
Wow, you take criticism really well. If you want help I'm on call - the failed modernization of the Qing is something my mother forced me to be acutely aware of.

And any details that fail me would, hopefully, show up on the internet ...
 
And that's what I'll be doing. The gears in my brain are already turning.
wow. Quality over quantity/speed I guess. if you need help u can always contact me also. Chinese history in the 20th century was something my family forced me to be aware of.
Wow, you take criticism really well. If you want help I'm on call - the failed modernization of the Qing is something my mother forced me to be acutely aware of.

And any details that fail me would, hopefully, show up on the internet ...
Asian parents amirite?????? ;D
 
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even still, my biggest wonder is how this affects WW1 in Asia.
A great power playground where theyre gonna get support from everyone especially the USA more of a dollar diplomacy battle between the GPs and powers that has interest in China and Asia. Meaning theyre gonna play politics and both sides to their benefit till ww1 then side with the winning side in ww1 then play politics again
 
That's why I chose the German model for a constitutional monarchy. Unlike the British model, the monarch still retains actual power. Therefore, it's led me to believe that type of system could coexist with and even compliment the Qing status-quo.
I'm actually going to go with Richard V's advice and have a German tutor teach Guangxu. Plus, I like your suggestion about following the OTL it would definitely put the butterfly effect into effect.
Technically Liechtenstein model would work better for china in that regard, as the prince has a lot of legal binding powers too
 
A great power playground where theyre gonna get support from everyone especially the USA more of a dollar diplomacy battle between the GPs and powers that has interest in China and Asia. Meaning theyre gonna play politics and both sides to their benefit till ww1 then side with the winning side in ww1 then play politics again
I think the biggest effect would be the humiliating treaties of the 19th century. I feel like WW1 is a perfect way to reverse it, but then that might also put them into conflict with japan, who might try to use it to expand much like they did OTL. in our tl, china joins entente, tries to take back their land from Germany, and actually contributes in manpower (labour) but the land is given to Japan instead. I can sort of see something like this happening if China decides to use it to reverse their situation.
 
I think the biggest effect would be the humiliating treaties of the 19th century. I feel like WW1 is a perfect way to reverse it, but then that might also put them into conflict with japan, who might try to use it to expand much like they did OTL. in our tl, china joins entente, tries to take back their land from Germany, and actually contributes in manpower (labour) but the land is given to Japan instead. I can sort of see something like this happening if China decides to use it to reverse their situation.
I mean the Philippines, They also might be USA's alternative Sugar supplier and other cash crops instead of cuba and others if they luckily manage to get a good trade deal.
 
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I dont think Japan will go after the Philippines. They cant. By the 1890's, it was under US control, and even the Spanish were no slouches in combat either. they dont have the capabilities. The Russo-Japanese war otl nearly destroyed their economy. the biggest though, would be how this affects WW1. Japan used it otl to grab Tsingtao. which caused a stir in china so are we going to butterfly it? or is WW1 going to end in the 2 fighting each other?
In 1894 at the Battle of Yalu River the Japanese fleet was twice as powerful as the American one that easily defeated the Spanish fleet at the Battle of Manila Bay. If Japan attacked the Philippines before 1898 they would win unless another Western power joined the war against them. The political fallout is the real hurdle.
Actually theyre independent and a bunch of Japanese ultranationalist had been funding these revolts in the 1890s in the revolution's early phase, sending a couple thousand rifles. And I do agree with you, The Philippines getting conquered by Japan is a bit implausible, it took the US over 10 years and spent over $300M in that time to invade it. They already had a working government, military, economy, and etc. only thing theyre lacking is recognition
Japan spent decades pacifying Korea and China. If they were allowed by foreign powers to size the Philippines it would certainly be worth their while to control it. It would catapult Japan into major power status and provide both naval bases and exploitable wealth.
 
Japan spent decades pacifying Korea and China. If they were allowed by foreign powers to size the Philippines it would certainly be worth their while to control it. It would catapult Japan into major power status and provide both naval bases and exploitable wealth.
How much can Japan spend and sacrifice for the war? Can they spend that high amount or more
 
How much can Japan spend and sacrifice for the war? Can they spend that high amount or more
That’s what banks are for. Japan raised half of the cost of the Russo-Japanese War through banks in London and New York. Once they own the Philippines lenders will see it as an opportunity. The Japanese had modern institutions and played the financing side of Imperialism as well anyone.
 
That’s what banks are for. Japan raised half of the cost of the Russo-Japanese War through banks in London and New York. Once they own the Philippines lenders will see it as an opportunity. The Japanese had modern institutions and played the financing side of Imperialism as well anyone.
Why should they? The Philippines if independent is technically gonnna slowly aligning itself to a favourable relationship with the US and Japan and other Great powers
 
Wow, you take criticism really well. If you want help I'm on call - the failed modernization of the Qing is something my mother forced me to be acutely aware of.

And any details that fail me would, hopefully, show up on the internet ...
I will gladly accept your help.
wow. Quality over quantity/speed I guess. if you need help u can always contact me. Chinese history in the 20th century was something my family forced me to be aware of.
And yours too.

After doing some research on the research on the original time line, here's my revision. Aside from criticism, both of you are welcome to offer some ideas on what happens to the Qing Dynasty in the 20th century.

1875 - 1887: Prince Gong as Prince Regent

In 1875, shortly after the accession of the Guangxu Emperor, Empress Dowager Cixi becomes severely ill from liver problems and dies. This left Empress Dowager Ci'an by herself, so she reappoints Prince Gong as Prince Regent to rule by her side.

Using his position to push for modernization, Gong accepts Shen Bouzhen's rejected proposals for the reform of the Military Imperial Examinations with the inclusion of Mathematics, the abolition of the military examinations as they were based on obsolete weaponry, and a telegraph line from Fuzhou to Mawei and Xiamen, and then proceeding across to Taiwan. This time, he relied on another company for the latter to be completed instead of the Danish one that was originally contracted for the project. He also aloud the Woosung road to continue operating. Like in the original timeline, Shen Baozhen succeeded in initiating construction of the Keelung Coal Mine in Taiwan, the first modern coal mine in China, to fuel the Fuzhou Navy Yard.

One of the most important actions taken as mentioned above was the modernization of the military. Or specifically, the modernization of the Eight Banners and Green Standard Army. Gong would arrange for western instructors and competent drillmasters to come and teach soldiers the art of modern combat. Volunteers were also sent abroad for such education. Along with training, soldiers would also begin wearing western style uniforms. Green Standard Army soldiers would wear standard uniforms consisting of a black jacket and red trousers with the latter sporting a yellow stripe down the legs. On their heads, they would wear traditional Manchu hats or turbans depending on the location/season. Bannerman soldiers would wear German style uniforms with custom designed Pickelhaube that resembled traditional helmets. Each uniform had different colors based on the banner the soldiers served under. Like in the original timeline, in 1885, with assistance from Germany, Li Hongzhang would establish the Tientsin (Tianjin) Military Academy, which offered a two-year program, taught by Imperial German Army officers in German language medium. Subjects included drill, fortifications, surveying, mathematics and science. Like in the original timeline, a naval academy is established in Lüshun (Dalian, or Port Arthur), a naval college is inaugurated in Guangzhou in 1887, and yet another one at Weihai in 1889, and one at Jiangning (Nanjing) in 1891.

The Imperial court would be introduced to western fashion as well, though they would only wear them on select occasions such as military related business, visiting another country on official business, or attending a western style ball. Depending on their rank, men's uniforms or suits would be designed to have the same color schemes as their traditional robes. They would also wear Women would wear dresses that had the same colors and patterns as their traditional robes while maintaining their Liangbatou hairstyles. Civilian clothing would remain unchanged with the exception of western style shoes being worn. Particularly, in factories.

Industrialization would pickup much quicker than it actually did historically. The major factor in this was that power was moved back from the regional governors to the central government. Under Gong's leadership, the Qing government cracked down on unequal treaties and showed little resistance in governmental projects.
Like in original timeline, the Kaiping Mines, the Shanghai Cotton Mill, and the Imperial Telegraph Administration would come about from 1877 to 1881.

Regarding transportation, railways would see an uptick in construction. Those against the construction were mostly arrested under Gong's orders. Standard gauge railways would connect major Chinese cities with narrow gauge cities built to connect mountain communities. Beijing and other major Chinese cities would have tramways built. Western style horse drawn carriages would be introduced to the imperial court and other wealthy Chinese families. The roofing of these carriages are modeled after roofs of traditional sedan chairs. Those who carried the sedan chairs were reassigned as coachmen and footmen respectively. Shipping would also grow in size due to high demands from the Qing government. An imperial yacht would be constructed at Jiangnan Shipyard and launched in 1879.

With the money made from modernizing industrialization, the Qing were able to have the Old Summer Palace rebuilt. Including, the Xiyang Lou with its western style buildings. Outside the imperial residence, in major Chinese cities, western architecture as we know it would not pick up as quickly as it did in Japan. However, the introduction of western building techniques would and resulted in the creation of a new type of architecture that's best described as 70% Chinese and 30% western.

Like in the original timeline, Ci'an dies in 1881.

The Sino-French War would still occur like in the original timeline, but with the help of modernized armies, the war ends with Tonkin becoming a Chinese protectorate.

Guangxu would get married two years earlier than he did in the original timeline. In 1887, he would marry Consort Zhen, who would become Empress Keshun. The money made from the modernization efforts allowed for the wedding to be ever so grand. That same year, Prince Gong would step down, allowing Guangxu to rule China on his own right.

1887 - 1900: Reign of the Guangxu Emperor (Note: His reign does go beyond 1900. The main focus is on the late 19th century.)

In 1887, a member of the Imperial Court would represent China at The Golden Jubilee of Queen Victoria. That same year, the Mo-ho Gold Mining Company was established and would begun operations in 1888 like in the original timeline.

During her marriage to Guangxu, Empress Keshun would bear three children; Princess Xingmei in 1891, Crown Prince Guanghui in 1893 and Prince Dachuan in 1897. Xingmei would have the privilege of not having her feet bounded as the practice of foot binding was abolished in 1895.

Like in the original timeline, the First Sino-Japanese war would occur, but due to China having modernized its army and navy in this version, the war ends with Korea becoming a Qing protectorate. Japan would compensate for it's loss by winning the Russo-Japanese War in 1905.

In 1897, Guangxu would visit Japan in order to discuss trade with Meiji. The two emperors would exchange each other's condolences for the losses during the war.

In 1896, on his birthday, Guangxu would host a western-style ball in the Hall of Supreme Harmony.

In 1897, a member of the Imperial Court would represent China at the Diamond Jubilee of Queen Victoria. That same year, like in the original timeline, Prince Gong would die. The Guangxu Emperor would personally attend his funeral and cancelled imperial court sessions for five days and ordered mourning attire to be worn for 15 days. The emperor also granted him the posthumous name "Zhong" (忠; meaning "loyal") and gave him a place in the Imperial Ancestral Temple, issuing an edict honoring him as a role model of loyalty that all Qing subjects are to learn from.
 
Like in the original timeline, the First Sino-Japanese war would occur, but due to China having modernized its army and navy in this version, the war ends with Korea becoming a Qing protectorate. Japan would compensate for it's loss by winning the Russo-Japanese War in 1905.
As said Before, if they loss the FSJW, them Japan is fucked and finished, their navy might be ruined alongside Qing one but that is more mortal for japan, no taiwan they will not get the sugar and jade industry capital, japan might be forced to downsize and suffer a crippling depression...and that is a net positive, the end of Japanese imperialism in their cradle,plus now the Ruso Japanese war, will be the Sino-Russian War...with China winning it too
 
As said Before, if they loss the FSJW, them Japan is fucked and finished, their navy might be ruined alongside Qing one but that is more mortal for japan, no taiwan they will not get the sugar and jade industry capital, japan might be forced to downsize and suffer a crippling depression...and that is a net positive, the end of Japanese imperialism in their cradle,plus now the Ruso Japanese war, will be the Sino-Russian War...with China winning it too
Interesting. So basically, Qing imperialism becomes the new growing issues. Looks like Japan will have to invade a country less developed than them or agree to peaceful trade negotiations if it wants to survive. Now I'm wondering if the Russian Revolution would happen earlier than in the original timeline.
 
Interesting. So basically, Qing imperialism becomes the new growing issues. Looks like Japan will have to invade a country less developed than them or agree to peaceful trade negotiations if it wants to survive. Now I'm wondering if the Russian Revolution would happen earlier than in the original timeline.
YEAH THE Earlier the Chinese are able to industrialized and become prosperous, Japan lost all their advantages and here is even better/worse as was earlier enough Qing was able to win the FSJW and stop Japan on their beggings, if anything Japan might be for a rude awakening after this...nothing capable for imperial adventures
 
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