A proper name for the American South?

[CaliBoy1990]

Alternative they could name it after political leader (Conderation of Jefferson) or a concept (Liberia, Freedonia, Libertiria, Big Ballia).

Jefferson would be the most likely, I suspect. The South hasn't ever exactly a freedom-friendly region[1], sadly, so unless there is a truly radical change in society and culture, I don't think any of the other three serious names would fit, unless you're be going for an Orwellian theme or something along those lines[3].

[1] Yes, that means real freedom, btw(such as no bans on interracial and/or LGBT sex/cohabitation/marriage, cannabis, etc.), and not the false B.S. typically peddled by certain types of malcontents based on no taxes, unregulated weapons ownership, unregulated business conduct, etc.
[2] And I mean truly radical, not just a few replacements and some small twists, like in DoD or Turtledove's "Confederacy" series, but something full-blown like Jello's "Red Dawn" TL, something that would even impress the Founders of the U.S. or France's Revolutionaries in its scope.
[3]But given the history of the South, that may not be so far-fetched.

 

[FleetMac]

Jefferson would be the most likely, I suspect. The South hasn't ever exactly a freedom-friendly region[1], sadly, so unless there is a truly radical change in society and culture, I don't think any of the other three serious names would fit, unless you're be going for an Orwellian theme or something along those lines[3].

[1] Yes, that means real freedom, btw(such as no bans on interracial and/or LGBT sex/cohabitation/marriage, cannabis, etc.), and not the false B.S. typically peddled by certain types of malcontents based on no taxes, unregulated weapons ownership, unregulated business conduct, etc.
[2] And I mean truly radical, not just a few replacements and some small twists, like in DoD or Turtledove's "Confederacy" series, but something full-blown like Jello's "Red Dawn" TL, something that would even impress the Founders of the U.S. or France's Revolutionaries in its scope.
[3]But given the history of the South, that may not be so far-fetched.

1) You mean, the same kind of laws passed and/or enforced in the Mid-west, North-east, etc.? The South was hardly alone in the backwards-thinking department (Indiana being a particularly notorious offender)...let's not even get into the hypocrisy California has shown with its shoddy (and often brutal) treatment of Spanish speakers in the 1800s, or the Mormon's struggles out west. Besides, times have changed nowadays.
2) Fair enough
3) Orwellian? In what world? Having lived there, I can speak to this, and if anything the attitude prevalent there is distinctly ANTI-authority. Oh sure, the Church exhibits a larger-than-reasonable influence on government, but then again it did so for the longest time in New England as well (or have the Puritan's crimes against women been forgotten?).

 

[mrmandias]

Jefferson would be the most likely, I suspect. The South hasn't ever exactly a freedom-friendly region[1], sadly, so unless there is a truly radical change in society and culture, I don't think any of the other three serious names would fit, unless you're be going for an Orwellian theme or something along those lines[3].

[1] Yes, that means real freedom, btw(such as no bans on interracial and/or LGBT sex/cohabitation/marriage, cannabis, etc.), and not the false B.S. typically peddled by certain types of malcontents based on no taxes, unregulated weapons ownership, unregulated business conduct, etc.
[2] And I mean truly radical, not just a few replacements and some small twists, like in DoD or Turtledove's "Confederacy" series, but something full-blown like Jello's "Red Dawn" TL, something that would even impress the Founders of the U.S. or France's Revolutionaries in its scope.
[3]But given the history of the South, that may not be so far-fetched.

A good place for uninformative political rants is the Political Chat forum.

 

[CaliBoy1990]

1) You mean, the same kind of laws passed and/or enforced in the Mid-west, North-east, etc.? The South was hardly alone in the backwards-thinking department (Indiana being a particularly notorious offender)...let's not even get into the hypocrisy California has shown with its shoddy (and often brutal) treatment of Spanish speakers in the 1800s, or the Mormon's struggles out west. Besides, times have changed nowadays.
2) Fair enough
3) Orwellian? In what world? Having lived there, I can speak to this, and if anything the attitude prevalent there is distinctly ANTI-authority. Oh sure, the Church exhibits a larger-than-reasonable influence on government, but then again it did so for the longest time in New England as well (or have the Puritan's crimes against women been forgotten?).

1.)Okay, that is definitely a valid point there.
2.)Okay.
3.)Well, the problem is, it's not exactly very consistent. TBH, I live in Texas myself and I didn't see too many people, that were upset with George Bush when he signed the Patriot Act and all those other laws that seriously infringed on people's liberties right after 9/11, and in another example, there were plenty of people who were more than happy to side against Civil Rights marchers in the '50s and '60s, whom, by the way, were the anti-authority side in that fight.

I don't think "Anti-authority" would be the best word to describe it......though I'm not sure what is, either.

(Sorry if I couldn't explain my point very well, btw.)

(P.S. yes it got a little political but I was trying to illustrate my point. Hopefully I didn't accidentally cross the line, though I'll edit the comments if asked to by mods or Ian.)

 

[su_liam]

I like "Southron Confederacy," or just "Suthern." But then I like "Dixie," so take it for what it's worth.

 

[mowque]

Way back when, they used to call it "Southward".

 

[CaliBoy1990]

Way back when, they used to call it "Southward".

Really? That's interesting to know.

 

[Roberto]

Around here, right on the Mason-Dixon line we sometimes say "down in the pine". Throw a little more Spanish or Mexican influence in and you might get names like Pinion popping up.

Magnolias have always been a bit of a representative symbol for the region.

I like Pineland myself.

 

[FleetMac]

Around here, right on the Mason-Dixon line we sometimes say "down in the pine". Throw a little more Spanish or Mexican influence in and you might get names like Pinion popping up.

Magnolias have always been a bit of a representative symbol for the region.

I like Pineland myself.

Where are you talking about, exactly? I used to live within about 4-5 hours from the Mason-Dixon line, and I NEVER heard it called that down here . I'm not questioning it, just not at all familiar with that saying.

Something with Magnolias would also be a good choice, if not as a definite country name, perhaps something like the "Confederation of the Magnolia" or "Magnolia Pact", if it's less unitary.

 

[CaliBoy1990]

Around here, right on the Mason-Dixon line we sometimes say "down in the pine". Throw a little more Spanish or Mexican influence in and you might get names like Pinion popping up.

Magnolias have always been a bit of a representative symbol for the region.

I like Pineland myself.

Where are you talking about, exactly? I used to live within about 4-5 hours from the Mason-Dixon line, and I NEVER heard it called that down here . I'm not questioning it, just not at all familiar with that saying.

Something with Magnolias would also be a good choice, if not as a definite country name, perhaps something like the "Confederation of the Magnolia" or "Magnolia Pact", if it's less unitary.

Makes sense to me.

 

[BGMan]

Way back when, they used to call it "Southward".

Perhaps something of Old English derivation that includes the word "South" in it, such as Sutherland (makes it sound a bit like "Netherlands"), Surway (like Norway), Suffolk ("south folk"), or Sussex ("south Saxony").

Something with Magnolias would also be a good choice

That might go on the coat-of-arms.

 

[mightfly]

I divide the US into northern and southern regions. The New England, Mod Atlantic and Great Lakes states are "northern". Everything from NC/Tennessee down is "southern". Maryland, Virginia, Delaware, West Virginia and Kentucky could be considered either or a separate category, Appalachia. That's my two cents, anyways

I always felt the USA was a name that presented a challenge to its inhabitants. To Unite as much of the americas into "The Union" as possible. Mexico identifies itself separately as United States of Mexico with Mexico acting as the regional signifier. Its no different than the United States of America.

We call them mexicans as a regional signifier like Americans. What happens if a Mexican state some how breaks off from USM and becomes an independent Mexican nation, like say Texans?

Should they be called East Mexicans?

I don't hear people calling to change what mexicans are called.

I wonder how Cajuns feel about the name Dixie?

 

[Grey Wolf]

I've used Mississippi in an alternate world, but its a bugger to type! Its probably easier to write long hand than to type so might be acceptable to pre-typing peoples!

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

 

[Ridwan Asher]

Either Carolina or Cavendia I'd say. That should be a better name for a loyalist south, too.

 

[jkay]

XNM, how would you like it we had a thread on what to call Californifians and decided on Soaking Avocadoheads, becauuse isn't that what you clearly are? It's definitely more fun than that boring thing you call yourself.

Er, isn't the respectful answer whatever we call ourselves? And we've already decided that for you. The South when "in" and Confederacy when we were "out".

It's not Southeast for the same reason Northwest University is nowhere remotely near today's northwest.

 

[zoomar]

"Dixie" is the most likely one. Also, since many people (including The Economist) routinely call the United States just "America" despite the fact that "America" can refer to lots of places outside the USA, I see no reason why an Independent Southern Confederacy could not just go by the the shortland name "The South", especially if it survives and becomes a semi-major nation.

 

[mowque]

Really? That's interesting to know.

It was the 1790-1820 period, I think.

 

[BGMan]

"Dixie" is the most likely one. Also, since many people (including The Economist) routinely call the United States just "America" despite the fact that "America" can refer to lots of places outside the USA, I see no reason why an Independent Southern Confederacy could not just go by the the shortland name "The South", especially if it survives and becomes a semi-major nation.

Minor point: At the time the United States of America was established, it was the only independent country in the Americas, so I guess that's why it felt entitled to the name.

 

[Thande]

Minor point: At the time the United States of America was established, it was the only independent country in the Americas, so I guess that's why it felt entitled to the name.

Officially it was called the United States of North America at first and the 'North' was just dropped as unwieldy around 1778, which makes a bit more sense considering the rebels laid claim to the colonies in what became Canada as well.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Officially it was called the United States of North America at first and the 'North' was just dropped as unwieldy around 1778, which makes a bit more sense considering the rebels laid claim to the colonies in what became Canada as well.

Officially, it didn't really have a name until July 1778 as you said (arguably as early as 1777), but it was mostly known as the "United States of America" beginning in April 1776 (Virginia Gazette) and the first official use by old TJ himself in June 1776 (Declaration). The only thing I can find with "United States of North America" on it is the Treaty of Alliance.

And, of course, British people later messing with Americans on official maps and their encyclopædia.