A powerful vice presidency

How could you change the constitution so the vice president has some real power and is doing more then just waiting for the president dies?
 
VPs break tie votes in the Senate, and can through that capacity, in rare cases, vote to make themselves Vice President. There is not a great need to give them much more formal power.
 
Under the Consitution the President is a realitivily weak Office, to increase the power of the VP, you first must increase the power of the President.
 
Having two powerful positions in charge of running the country is far from a good thing IMHO. Not only would the lines of authority become muddled, but it could well create competition between the two - in other words a struggle for ultimate power. Needles to say, this could be very unproductive if not downright dangerous for good government. Don't forget the position of VP, originally, was supposed to go to the runner up in the election for President. That didn't work out too well two centuries ago. In a modern nuclear armed world it could mean total disaster.
 
Having two powerful positions in charge of running the country is far from a good thing IMHO. Not only would the lines of authority become muddled, but it could well create competition between the two - in other words a struggle for ultimate power. Needles to say, this could be very unproductive if not downright dangerous for good government. Don't forget the position of VP, originally, was supposed to go to the runner up in the election for President. That didn't work out too well two centuries ago. In a modern nuclear armed world it could mean total disaster.

I'm not saying in charge, just more powerful. Right now the position is useless. An idea I have is to have the VP recommend 3 or 4 people for each cabinet position. The president could pick one or chose one of his own.
 
I'm not saying in charge, just more powerful. Right now the position is useless. An idea I have is to have the VP recommend 3 or 4 people for each cabinet position. The president could pick one or chose one of his own.


Well this only further muddles the lines of authority. Combine that with confusion as to who is ultimately responsible for the Administration's actions & policy. It's bad enough now, in regards to these things, so I don't think such a reform to the VP's Office will make things any better. IMHO it'll make things worse.

And there's still what I said before. You'll end up having the President & the VP competing officially for power, thus possibly spliting the Adminstration into two power blocks. Now it happens to a limited degree now, but it's all behind closed doors & kept under control, but this type of reform makes it official. Ultimately it could mean a power grab in the Executive - in other words a civil war within the government itself.
 
Well this only further muddles the lines of authority. Combine that with confusion as to who is ultimately responsible for the Administration's actions & policy. It's bad enough now, in regards to these things, so I don't think such a reform to the VP's Office will make things any better. IMHO it'll make things worse.

And there's still what I said before. You'll end up having the President & the VP competing officially for power, thus possibly spliting the Adminstration into two power blocks. Now it happens to a limited degree now, but it's all behind closed doors & kept under control, but this type of reform makes it official. Ultimately it could mean a power grab in the Executive - in other words a civil war within the government itself.

Not really the president can choose one of his own. He makes recommendations but doesn't do the actual picking. Right now the problem is when the president dies the VP is almost clueless on what is really going on.
 
One thought is to make the vice presidency roughly equal to the home secretary in other nations: give him day-to-day authority over domestic departments, with (of course) ultimate authority residing with the president. As such, the VP would be the day-to-day authority over (let's say) Labor, Commerce, HUD, HHS, Veterans, and Interior. The remainder (i.e., the original cabinet posts plus a few more with international implications) would report directly to the president.
 
Not really the president can choose one of his own. He makes recommendations but doesn't do the actual picking. Right now the problem is when the president dies the VP is almost clueless on what is really going on.


The president choose one of his own eh? You know how many so-called "friends" have become enemies once political power comes into the equation? Lots.

In the end it's not the Office which maketh the man, but rather the man who maketh the Office. In other words, no-one thinks that Cheney, for example, is powerless in the current Administration as VP, whilst Dan Quayle, on the other hand, was completely powerless: yet both served in the exact same Office...
 
The president choose one of his own eh? You know how many so-called "friends" have become enemies once political power comes into the equation? Lots.

In the end it's not the Office which maketh the man, but rather the man who maketh the Office. In other words, no-one thinks that Cheney, for example, is powerless in the current Administration as VP, whilst Dan Quayle, on the other hand, was completely powerless: yet both served in the exact same Office...

Who do you think chooses cabinet members NOW? It is the POUS and it has to be confirmed by Congress. Not much change here except that the VP has to keep in touch of things to make recomendations.
 
Who do you think chooses cabinet members NOW? It is the POUS and it has to be confirmed by Congress. Not much change here except that the VP has to keep in touch of things to make recomendations.


Well recommendations don't mean much if the President can ignore them. So I don't see the point of any change.

Now if you made the VP the head of an important department - say foreign affairs - that'd be different. In other words he becomes Sec of State.
 

Jasen777

Donor
How about this:

Vice-President is not a separate position, but is an additional title given to the Secretary of State.

The title and responsibilities of "President of the Senate" is instead given to the Secretary of Treasury.

Hence, only the President is elected, and we don't have all that trouble figuring out how to elect vice-presidents.
 
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Well recommendations don't mean much if the President can ignore them. So I don't see the point of any change.

Now if you made the VP the head of an important department - say foreign affairs - that'd be different. In other words he becomes Sec of State.

If it is an official duty his recommendations would probably be taken seriously. He may have only marginal influence on who the secetary of state is but he certainly will have a considerable amount on who the secatary of labor is. After all the POUS doesn't have all the time in the world to fill lower postions as he has other things to do.
 
How about this:

Vice-President is not a separate position, but is an additional title given to the Secretary of State.

The title and responsibilities of "President of the Senate" is instead given to the Secretary of Treasury.

Hence, only the President is elected, and we don't have all that trouble figuring out how to elect vice-presidents.


Sounds good, although why not simply have the President of the Senate as a separate appointment instead of it going to Treasury?
 
How could you change the constitution so the vice president has some real power and is doing more then just waiting for the president dies?

You don't need to change the Constitution. It's already happened. Cheney has more than likely dictated the direction of certain policies in the administration. But even without some guy like Cheney, future VPs will at least have an advisory role in making decisions.
 
If it is an official duty his recommendations would probably be taken seriously. He may have only marginal influence on who the secetary of state is but he certainly will have a considerable amount on who the secatary of labor is. After all the POUS doesn't have all the time in the world to fill lower postions as he has other things to do.


Except the VP was supposed to be an important position originally, but now look at it. Unless the VP's "recommendations" are actual "law", Presidents will simply ignore them whenever they feel like it. Better to give the VP an important department to actually run as I've suggested. And Sec of State would suit the VP pretty well as both America's & the President's chief diplomat to the world. It'll certainly keep the VP busy...
 

Jasen777

Donor
Sounds good, although why not simply have the President of the Senate as a separate appointment instead of it going to Treasury?

That could work also, but I figured if part of it (mainly the succession) went to one cabinet post, why not have the other part go to another one.

Having to ride herd on the Senate would be a distraction for the Secretary of State, but I think it makes some sense for the Secretary of Treasury.
 
That could work also, but I figured if part of it (mainly the succession) went to one cabinet post, why not have the other part go to another one.

Having to ride herd on the Senate would be a distraction for the Secretary of State, but I think it makes some sense for the Secretary of Treasury.


Why not include the President of the Senate as a minor cabinet position? That'll deal with the succession business
 

Jasen777

Donor
I don't think it's that important. At first there was only four positions: state, treasury, war, and the attorney general. The President of the Senate doesn't deserve to be there imo.

Although it could perhaps be separated later.
 
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I don't think it's that important. At first there was only four positions: state, treasury, war, and the attorney general. The President of the Senate doesn't deserve to be there imo.


Well I kind of gathered these reforms to the VP position took place sometime later on...
 
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