A Plethora of Princes - The Crisis of 1905

Oddball · May 3, 2005

Grey Wolf said:
IS Sweden, Norway and Finland one ? Or can there be a successful Triple Crown ?

Grey Wolf

Finland I do not know much about, but there can defenetly be a successfull Swedish-Norwegian unity.

Basicaly it comes down to wether the Triple Crown is with or against the/a British alliance system. As long as you keep Norway underdeveloped and reliant on her merchant marine (whaling fleet included), Norway wont accept anything that would jeopardize her ability to be a major partisipator on the oceans.

Grey Wolf · May 3, 2005

Red said:
Finland I do not know much about, but there can defenetly be a successfull Swedish-Norwegian unity.

Basicaly it comes down to wether the Triple Crown is with or against the/a British alliance system. As long as you keep Norway underdeveloped and reliant on her merchant marine (whaling fleet included), Norway wont accept anything that would jeopardize her ability to be a major partisipator on the oceans.

Are you saying that if Norway's merchant marine DOES prosper then they will be more likely to happily remain in the union ?

What happened to jeopardise it in OTL ?

Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf · May 3, 2005

The Papacy

So, Pope names reflect some aspect of their policy and personality ? (as I learnt from the debate over Benedict)

Thus, after Pius IX, we have had two Popes, one who focused on temporal affairs mostly, and then one who reigned during a period of Catholic triumphalism but was not himself of this viewpoint, being more of a peacemaker than a victorious type. We could perhaps say that this latter was an Austrian protege, maybe from Milan, but if thats too complex then from the Romagna. After helping to prevent war between Naples and Sicily, he sickens and dies.

Questions
- what are the names of these two Popes, based at least upon their overall pre-occupations ?
- if the new Pope elected is a more aggressive kind of guy, what name would he adopt for himself ?

Grey Wolf

Oddball · May 3, 2005

Grey Wolf said:
Are you saying that if Norway's merchant marine DOES prosper then they will be more likely to happily remain in the union ?

What happened to jeopardise it in OTL ?

Grey Wolf

Very generaly speaking, yes

The Swedish-Norwegian union of 1814 were barly a union at all. In only two matters did the two nations enjoy common (Swedish

) institution: The King and foreign matters.

And it was foreign matters that brought the matter of dissolution of the union on the political agenda.

The Norwegians did not feel that the Swedish ambassadours and consuls represented the Norwegians at all. As a great power in sea trade this was a important matter to us and at the end of the 19th century the matter had become so urgent that the Norwegian parlament voted to establish a separate Norwegian consulate system.

The Swedes naturaly objected, and the end result was the dissolution of the union.

Grey Wolf · May 4, 2005

Thoughts about The Chinas

I suppose the question with China is who is backing who ?

Is Russia backing the empire ? On the one hand it would seem a bit of a dangerous plan, to back a state that once revived could be a rival on its border and claim some of the land occupied by Russia. On the other hand, it would give Russia great influence in their neighbour and be similar to how they dealt with the Ottoman Empire.

If Russia is looking to dominate Peking, then the other powers will be both looking to rival them within the Empire, and to back the rivals to the empire. France already has a position in Japan, and in Vietnam, though the latter is being challenged by the USA. In addition, France occupies Kwangchow province.

Britain occupies the province adjacent to Kwangchow (i.e. where Canton and Hong Kong is, and whose name I am forever forgetting). Britain thus has immediate neighbours in the Taiping.

Will anyone other than these four powers be players in China ? Austria ? Belgium ? Japan ?

Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf · May 4, 2005

Wow, amazingly uninteresting timeline this is...

Grey Wolf

Nicole · May 4, 2005

I think Russia will go for the Empire- In one of my timelines, before it got too implausible, I had Russia support the Empire in the north, while a Republic was formed in the South.
Hm, you mention competing interests of various nations there. Perhaps we could have several protectorates, each claiming loyalty to the Chinese Emperor, but not really using it- Think Spanish Morocco, where there was a Caliph (in it's meaning as Deputy) who ruled there, theoretically in the name of the King of Morocco in the French section.

Othniel · Dec 30, 2005

Grey Wolf said:
Wow, amazingly uninteresting timeline this is...

Grey Wolf

I must disagree...though far too late.

Othniel · Mar 10, 2007

Grey Wolf, if you could continue this?

Wendell · Mar 10, 2007

Maps would be helpful

Othniel · Apr 19, 2007

Like this?

Grey Wolf · Apr 20, 2007

Othniel said:
Grey Wolf, if you could continue this?

The problem with trying to continue it is it is as much a mystery to me as to most readers. I've forgotten most of what I put into this, and though the map certainly reminds me of many pleasant discussions I've no idea in what state I left it, what the obvious and hidden dynamics were, or where it was going. I would need to basically "study" it as if it was real history and get a sense once again of what it was all about. Ironically, you are probably in a much better position than I am to know what was going on !

btw I really appreciate your efforts to bring all of this together and supply the maps and cohesion that my own efforts necessarily lack (owing to the way I usually work). Thanks !

Best Regards
Grey Wolf