A Plethora of Princes (11) - A Shock to the System

[Grey Wolf]

Well Virginia could effeciently be abosrbed into a larger West Virginia and parts into Maryland. Jamison could be virginia (a warp off of Jamestown), Whlst you start drawing off of inspirations like the middle name of Lincohn or Sherman's wife Maybe a few patriots from those areas.

West Virginia looks to be Vandalia on this map, as well as Vandalia being a bit more too

I think there are enough past presidents of national esteem and not too recent for the interior states - Franklin was not president but his name was suggested for states quite often. Jefferson and Jackson and perhaps Monroe would make good names for states in the interior

I still think that in the absence of other suggestions rivers may well be the best bet for state names in the East

Grey Wolf

 

[Othniel]

Well what about the original indian inhabitants names for the lands? Delware is named after Indians. Maryland could be called Lenape.

 

[Hierophant]

Actually delaware was named after Lord De la Ware, and english aristocrat who was somehow invloved in the American colonies. The river delaware was named after him, as well as the indians.

 

[Nicole]

Perhaps a state of Acadiana is formed out of the French-speaking parts of Louisiana? Also, the Brazos River looks like it could make a good state border, if we want to divide up Texas.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Disregarding Missouri which in this ATL was assumed to have just about remained with the Union but was several times seized by the South, this map shows the states which seceded and which will need to be reconstituted to be readmitted to the Union after 1881

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/Jefferson_Davis/Confederate_States_Map.jpg

Blend it with this map

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/british_colonies_1763-76.jpg

And you should be able to work out the areas NOT covered by the four states re-admitted in 1882, namely :- Vandalia, Transylvania, West Florida and East Florida

Grey Wolf

 

[Grey Wolf]

Perhaps a state of Acadiana is formed out of the French-speaking parts of Louisiana? Also, the Brazos River looks like it could make a good state border, if we want to divide up Texas.

Texas is independent in this ATL so the Eastern Texan border forms the Western border of the USA in that area

But I think its a good idea about Louisiana - Acadia or Acadiana ? Arcadia ? Accadia ? Which is the correct form ?

Grey Wolf

 

[Othniel]

Disregarding Missouri which in this ATL was assumed to have just about remained with the Union but was several times seized by the South, this map shows the states which seceded and which will need to be reconstituted to be readmitted to the Union after 1881

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/Jefferson_Davis/Confederate_States_Map.jpg

Blend it with this map

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/british_colonies_1763-76.jpg

And you should be able to work out the areas NOT covered by the four states re-admitted in 1882, namely :- Vandalia, Transylvania, West Florida and East Florida

Grey Wolf

Maryland= Chesapek(sp?)
Georgia= Savannha
and I'll think of more.

 

[Nicole]

Texas is independent in this ATL so the Eastern Texan border forms the Western border of the USA in that area

But I think its a good idea about Louisiana - Acadia or Acadiana ? Arcadia ? Accadia ? Which is the correct form ?

Grey Wolf

Oh yes, forgot about Texas..
As for Acadiana, I've looked into this abit, and I've read that..
According to legend, The term Acadiana was born by a twist of fate in the early 1960s, when KATC TV in Lafayette, owned by the Acadian Television Corporation, received an invoice with an error that turned "Acadian" into "Acadiana". Station management found it fitting, and began using the new word to describe the region covered by its broadcast signal. (From Wikipedia)
This seems to imply that Acadia was used as the name for the region populated by refugees from the original Acadia at the point these states are being created.

 

[eschaton]

A majority black state could be formed in the area around the Missisippi out of counties in Mississippi, Arkansas, and a bit of Louisiana. I believe this area is called Yazoo in OTL, so it could be the name of an ATL state.

 

[Nicole]

Another random thought- Are any cities in the south big enough to form their own state? I know there has been some talk on this forum of US City-States.

 

[Grey Wolf]

The new South

This certainly offers an interesting amalgum of new states out of the old South (including in this ATL West Virginia which never seceded from Virginia, and Kentucky and Maryland which did secede with the Confederacy) :-

Vandalia
Transylvania
West Florida
East Florida
(as per the map posted)

Acadia - a rump Louisiana
Yazoo - as described

Jefferson
Franklin
- one could probably get away with just two new states now named after presidents in the interior as the above would take up most of the available space

The federal zone of the District of Columbia enlarged back to its original size

Monroe
- how about Maryland, Virginia on the peninsular, and N Virginia contiguous with ex-Maryland around the newly re-enlarged federal zone

Jackson
- how about Georgia plus ?

Then a couple of river-based states ?
Roanoke I still like because of its historical connections for the rest of (rump) Virginia
Now one really only needs to do North and South Carolina - 3 river-based states would do it well for the ATL

Grey Wolf

 

[eschaton]

Be careful with the number of states you are creating. Overall, I think that to break the power of the south in the senate, the new states would be larger, and thus slightly smaller in number.

 

[Othniel]

Add a larger number in the west. Did the Loiusanne Purchase happen in Plethora?

 

[Grey Wolf]

Be careful with the number of states you are creating. Overall, I think that to break the power of the south in the senate, the new states would be larger, and thus slightly smaller in number.

Except that some like the pro-Unionist Appalachian states and the majority black Yazoo state will be anti the traditional South, so their existence won't weigh the balance in terms of the South, but in terms of the Northern agenda

Grey Wolf

 

[Grey Wolf]

Add a larger number in the west. Did the Loiusanne Purchase happen in Plethora?

Yes the initial POD is not till the mid 1820s, and it didn't affect the USA until the mid 1830s

Only those states which committed suicide by secession are needing to reapply as states in this ATL

The West in this TL went more or less the way of OTL, erxcept that there are two large states - South Oregon and North Oregon

Grey Wolf

 

[Othniel]

Indian Territory isn't a state yet, let's see what else, is Monotana and Wyoming states yet? Congress might start partitioning and adding one state out west for every one in the south in order to keep a balance in the house of Reps and to give a supior majority in the Senate.

 

[Othniel]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_date_of_statehood

So by 1882 these are yet to be states.

39/40 South Dakota November 2, 1889 Dakota Territory
39/40 North Dakota November 2, 1889 Dakota Territory
41 Montana November 8, 1889 Montana Territory
42 Washington November 11, 1889 Washington Territory
43 Idaho July 3, 1890 Idaho Territory
44 Wyoming July 10, 1890 Wyoming Territory
45 Utah January 4, 1896 Utah Territory
46 Oklahoma November 16, 1907 Oklahoma Territory
47 New Mexico January 6, 1912 New Mexico Territory
48 Arizona February 14, 1912 Arizona Territory
49 Alaska January 3, 1959 Alaska Territory
50 Hawaii August 21, 1959 Hawaii Territory

 

[Grey Wolf]

Indian Territory isn't a state yet, let's see what else, is Monotana and Wyoming states yet? Congress might start partitioning and adding one state out west for every one in the south in order to keep a balance in the house of Reps and to give a supior majority in the Senate.

I see what you mean

I envisaged that the Union post-1871 basically made all the West into states if they had the requisite population

I admit I didn't look into this enough

I don't think they would have played with the statistics as the solution to state death was still 5-10 years in the future

But maybe the idea that the states are the same as constituted was a lazy assumtion that I now need to revisit in detail

Thanks ! I'll certainly look into it

Grey Wolf

 

[Othniel]

Tell me the boarders the US has with Texas and Mexico by Geographic landmarks and I'll attempt to make you a map with state boundardies.

 

[Grey Wolf]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_date_of_statehood

So by 1882 these are yet to be states.

39/40 South Dakota November 2, 1889 Dakota Territory
39/40 North Dakota November 2, 1889 Dakota Territory
41 Montana November 8, 1889 Montana Territory
42 Washington November 11, 1889 Washington Territory
43 Idaho July 3, 1890 Idaho Territory
44 Wyoming July 10, 1890 Wyoming Territory
45 Utah January 4, 1896 Utah Territory
46 Oklahoma November 16, 1907 Oklahoma Territory
47 New Mexico January 6, 1912 New Mexico Territory
48 Arizona February 14, 1912 Arizona Territory
49 Alaska January 3, 1959 Alaska Territory
50 Hawaii August 21, 1959 Hawaii Territory

Wow, k

Ignore Alaska (Russian) and Hawaii (independent) plus places like New Mexico and Utah (still part of Mexico). Oklahoma can be ignored too as Indian territory. Wyoming is probably split between Mexico (Deseret) and whatever is created North of it.

Thus we need to look at :- the Dakotas (in the future), Montana, and Idaho.

Washington state is part of South Oregon along with Oregon

North Oregon is basically British Columbia up to 54'40"

Thus - Montana and Idaho. When did they reach the population requirements to become states ? If in the 1870s then they are states, under the post-1871 settlement

Grey Wolf