A plausibility check: An Alannic kingdom in Hispania

As we know from OTL, Gunderic had been crowned King of the Vandals and Alans when the Alannic king Attaces had been defeated and killed in a battle with the Visigothic king Wallia who invaded Hispania on behalf of Honorius. The defeat was so devastating than the remainder of the Alans pleaded Gunderic to accept their proposal of him becoming King. He accepted and the western Alans eventually faded into history. There's not much detail into the battle with Wallia but what if he managed to defeat the Visigoths and kill Wallia instead? The Alans controlled a good portion of Roman Hispania and with Honorius' plans in using the Visigoths to wipe out the Alans dashed, do you think the Alans would, in alliance with the Silingi Vandals, Suevi and Hasdingi crush the remaining Roman presence in Hispania?

 
I suppose its not impossible, but the fact that one major defeat brought them down that badly seems telling on how strong they are.

Edit: Oh come on people. There has to be someone who thinks that I'm an incurable pessimist except towards the ERE at its height.
 
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I suppose its not impossible, but the fact that one major defeat brought them down that badly seems telling on how strong they are.

Edit: Oh come on people. There has to be someone who thinks that I'm an incurable pessimist except towards the ERE at its height.

:p

Oh quiet you damn Rhomanophile. I do think the Alans do have what it takes. God knows how much it would help your case if there's detail on said battle. The Alans could had made an alliance out of the Suevi, Hasdingi and Silingi Vandals to help defeat the Visigoths and stop them from expanding in Hispania and keep them (for a time) restricted to their settlement in southern Gaul.
 
:p

Oh quiet you damn Rhomanophile. I do think the Alans do have what it takes. God knows how much it would help your case if there's detail on said battle. The Alans could had made an alliance out of the Suevi, Hasdingi and Silingi Vandals to help defeat the Visigoths and stop them from expanding in Hispania and keep them (for a time) restricted to their settlement in southern Gaul.

Defeat the Visigoths, yes. Crushingly succeed? That's where having some details would make the difference between this being a pissing contest between pessimism and optimism with no real relationship to anything on the Alans specifically.

Referring to this possibly devolving into a pissing contest in good humor. :D

I really don't know enough about this to poke any holes in it that can be taken seriously, but you aren't showing enough to indicate (presumably from similarly incomplete knowledge judging by the post I'm responding to here) you can prove it isn't full of holes.

Shame. Alans winning has to fall under the category of "cool and awesome" to someone. Where is that someone when we need them?
 
Defeat the Visigoths, yes. Crushingly succeed? That's where having some details would make the difference between this being a pissing contest between pessimism and optimism with no real relationship to anything on the Alans specifically.

Referring to this possibly devolving into a pissing contest in good humor. :D

I really don't know enough about this to poke any holes in it that can be taken seriously, but you aren't showing enough to indicate (presumably from similarly incomplete knowledge judging by the post I'm responding to here) you can prove it isn't full of holes.

Shame. Alans winning has to fall under the category of "cool and awesome" to someone. Where is that someone when we need them?

There's barely anything save for a Wikipedia article. I have to make the best of the very little life throws at me, Elfwine. :D I'm not denying that I don't know much if they can win or not. I don't have troop numbers, or anything that could detail as to *why* the Alans lost. All I can work upon is the benefit that had the Alans won, they would probably have the potential of ousting the Romans and becoming the premier power in Hispania. Plus I think it's kind of awesome to have Hispano-Roman languages using Alanic loanwords. It IS an Eastern Iranian language, a very rare thing considering most of the migration was done by Germanic tribes.

The only person who has tried to do a TL with a Alanic Hispania is Kosta and that TL is discontinued.
 
There's barely anything save for a Wikipedia article. I have to make the best of the very little life throws at me, Elfwine. :D


Figures. But isn't there any other mention of it? Just an article that with the kind of luck I'm imagining you had is a stub? :(

I'm not denying that I don't know much if they can win or not. I don't have troop numbers, or anything that could detail as to *why* the Alans lost. All I can work upon is the benefit that had the Alans won, they would probably have the potential of ousting the Romans and becoming the premier power in Hispania.
I agree other than being a natural pessimist. At the very least, they just removed the major nonRoman threat to doing so, which has to count as a serious gain given what happened OTL.

Plus I think it's kind of awesome to have Hispano-Roman languages using Alanic loanwords. It IS an Eastern Iranian language, a very rare thing considering most of the migration was done by Germanic tribes.
There is nothing about this that I disagree with. That region of the world (where the Alans are from, not Iberia) gets way too little attention in Western-focused writing.

Speaking as a Romanophile and thus enthusiast towards Roman history (specifically the eastern part of Rome), Persia and neighbors are a big deal...but unfortunately an unfamiliar area.

The only person who has tried to do a TL with a Alanic Hispania is Kosta and that TL is discontinued.
Awwww. :(
 
Figures. But isn't there any other mention of it? Just an article that with the kind of luck I'm imagining you had is a stub? :(


Only one sentence I'm afraid. I have to take it as face value since the repercussions of it is mentioned in other articles. :( The best thing is that the less you have in your hands, the more you can create. :D

I agree other than being a natural pessimist. At the very least, they just removed the major nonRoman threat to doing so, which has to count as a serious gain given what happened OTL.

More so and if the Visigoths are concentrated in Gaul, the Romans might send forces stationed in Hispania to deal with them; probably making it easier for the Alans to conquer what's left of Roman Hispania. I think the major repercussions would be for the Vandals who don't have the contribution of Alanic manpower to help them conquer North Africa if things continue to go more or less in OTL fashion. The Vandals, combined with the Alans, had 80,000 men; they could field an army of 15,000-20,000 soldiers though that's probably the maximum that they could bring out if worse to worse. If the Alans beat the Visigoths, the Vandals have far less than the numbers I just mentioned.

There is nothing about this that I disagree with. That region of the world (where the Alans are from, not Iberia) gets way too little attention in Western-focused writing.

Word.

Speaking as a Romanophile and thus enthusiast towards Roman history (specifically the eastern part of Rome), Persia and neighbors are a big deal...but unfortunately an unfamiliar area.

Awwww. :(

East gets no love. :(
 
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Only one sentence I'm afraid. I have to take it as face value since the repercussions of it is mentioned in other articles. :( The best thing is that the less you have in your hands, the more you can create. :D

Perfect for people like the guy doing Cato's Cavalry.

More so and if the Visigoths are concentrated in Gaul, the Romans might send forces stationed in Hispania to deal with them; probably making it easier for the Alans to conquer what's left of Roman Hispania. I think the major repercussions would be for the Vandals who don't have the contribution of Alanic manpower to help them conquer North Africa if things continue to go more or less in OTL fashion. The Vandals, combined with the Alans, had 80,000 men; they could field an army of 15,000-20,000 soldiers though that's probably the maximum that they could bring out if worse to worse. If the Alans beat the Visigoths, the Vandals have far less than the numbers I just mentioned.

Makes sense to me.


East gets no love. :(

One has to wonder why. I mean, preference for the Greeks is one thing. Flat out ignoring Persia and the rest...sigh.

C'mon people, prove that you're not all anti-Iranic or even less knowledgeable on the Alans than I am.
 
Cato's Cavalry is a pretty interesting TL. It's gotten me into ancient Britain.

Yeah I don't like the Vandals have the manpower to take all of Roman North Africa which is under Count Boniface's control. You might have a smaller Vandal kingdom arise in Numidia. Geiseric might not break the treaty he had with Rome and conquer Carthage due to having lesser men which leaves Roman Africa surviving for a few more decades (the Western Emperors could always move to Carthage if shit gets bad in Europe)
 
Cato's Cavalry is a pretty interesting TL. It's gotten me into ancient Britain.


Seems to fit the furthering of "More obscure stuff", even if everyone knows the myth-legend-fiction King Arthur, the actual Roman Britain of the time isn't that well covered .

Yeah I don't like the Vandals have the manpower to take all of Roman North Africa which is under Count Boniface's control. You might have a smaller Vandal kingdom arise in Numidia. Geiseric might not break the treaty he had with Rome and conquer Carthage due to having lesser men which leaves Roman Africa surviving for a few more decades (the Western Emperors could always move to Carthage if shit gets bad in Europe)

Seems possible to me. Or failing that not losing Carthage means things don't get as bad to begin with.

Interesting possibilities here.
 
In order to further the discussion, if Wallia is killed and his successor Theodoric decides to ditch invading Hispania and go for expanding Visigothic control in Gaul, it might put them at odd with their Roman allies, the Franks and the Burgundians.
 
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