A Norse Colony found in Labrador...

So i've been working on an idea for a short story/novella and would like some advice on a question I have...

So this question takes place a little after the turn of the 20th century (1920 to 1930-ish). Let's say that a small norse village (250-350 souls) is discovered along the northern Labrador coastline in a very isolated out of the way fiord, where they have been living for centuries unmolested by the outside world. They are still living with ~13th to 14th century technology. These people are some of the survivors from the Greenland colony who fled west when the mini iceage hit northern Europe.

Now my questions are as follows,

1) What would be the immediate consequences of such a find (culturally /politically) and what do you suppose the government's response be (assuming a peaceful first contact is made).

2) Let's say that the first content is not very friendly (understandably, something goes wrong) and let's say several citizens/researches/explorers or what not are injured/killed. What do you think the government's response would be then?

3) Finally, what do you think the long term solution/consequences would be of such a find for the norse and for the "Canadians" (<--I use this term though I know NewFoundLand/ Labrador did not join Canada until 1949).

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply :cool:
 
Well, I think such a discovery so late is not very plausible. It is much more likely that such a lost colony would have been encountered long before. For them to remain undetected, the lost village would need to be very isolated. A fjord is still navigable by ship, and presumably the natives would also be using their own small ships for fishing and stuff. So you should work on that a bit.

However, such a find would be extremely important as it could answer a lot of questions about the norse of those times. Certainly a lot of Danish-Norwegian anthropologists, folklorists, historians, and archaeologists would be interested in them, along with the academic community in general.

If people are killed, the government is going to react. Policemen and such would be sent in force to assert their authority so that the Norse village cannot possibly resist and therefore discourage any resistance at all. I would avoid the typical "government bumbling and overreaction" all too often found in the movies. The object would be to establish peace in the areaa nd prevent further misunderstandings. The killers would need to be taken into custody, but assuming the killing was understandable, the jury would probably acquit or the government not even charge the person, depending on the exact events.

Once discovered, there is no way to prevent "cultural pollution." Any scientific value of the population (as opposed to the area) will not exist after a generation. There is probably a period of limited quarantine so academics and scholars can ask questions, after which the Norse are allowed to do whatever they want. Which probably means they begin to use the technology and knowledge of the greater society. Their children learn English, some of them eventually leave to work elsewhere or study the univeristy, etc. Perhaps any Scandinavian immigrants to Newfoundland or Canada or United States agree to host children or students in an attempt to lessen the amount of culture clash possible (since at least some of the old culture would still be maintained). Or maybe Iceland offers instead. Typical culture clash in that regards between old parents and new children. Some Canadian university creates an institute or other research site there to preserve as much knowledge as they can and perform archaeological digs. In a few generations, the Norse are as Canadian as everyone else.
 
firstly, thankyou both for replying :)

Interesting, but ASB. Also, wouldn't they be very inbred?

you only need a couple hundred people to keep up enough genetic diversity... plus, (in a legend i am working in), there have been tales of "missing ships and stolen women" and the such... (aka women taken and brought into the community). in reality, its probably just storms and the such making most of these small ships dissapear and the such (rugged coast and unpredictable weather). but it works well for the story premise :cool:

Well, I think such a discovery so late is not very plausible. It is much more likely that such a lost colony would have been encountered long before. For them to remain undetected, the lost village would need to be very isolated. A fjord is still navigable by ship, and presumably the natives would also be using their own small ships for fishing and stuff. So you should work on that a bit.

well what I had in mind was a "hidden valley" of sorts up a small river from the end of an isolated usually ice-choked fiord. up near the tree line in the mtns of labrador you get the odd valley with "lush" (lush being a relative term) tree growth and the such. I'd have this village there on a small lake or the such. Basically a small oasis on the edge of the barrens.



However, such a find would be extremely important as it could answer a lot of questions about the norse of those times. Certainly a lot of Danish-Norwegian anthropologists, folklorists, historians, and archaeologists would be interested in them, along with the academic community in general.

If people are killed, the government is going to react. Policemen and such would be sent in force to assert their authority so that the Norse village cannot possibly resist and therefore discourage any resistance at all. I would avoid the typical "government bumbling and overreaction" all too often found in the movies. The object would be to establish peace in the areaa nd prevent further misunderstandings. The killers would need to be taken into custody, but assuming the killing was understandable, the jury would probably acquit or the government not even charge the person, depending on the exact events.

Once discovered, there is no way to prevent "cultural pollution." Any scientific value of the population (as opposed to the area) will not exist after a generation. There is probably a period of limited quarantine so academics and scholars can ask questions, after which the Norse are allowed to do whatever they want. Which probably means they begin to use the technology and knowledge of the greater society. Their children learn English, some of them eventually leave to work elsewhere or study the univeristy, etc. Perhaps any Scandinavian immigrants to Newfoundland or Canada or United States agree to host children or students in an attempt to lessen the amount of culture clash possible (since at least some of the old culture would still be maintained). Or maybe Iceland offers instead. Typical culture clash in that regards between old parents and new children. Some Canadian university creates an institute or other research site there to preserve as much knowledge as they can and perform archaeological digs. In a few generations, the Norse are as Canadian as everyone else.

thanks for the suggestions. i never thought of icelandic/norwedgion families "hosting" children to lesson cultural impact.

thanks for all your feedback and thoughtfull answer:)
 
Interesting, but ASB. Also, wouldn't they be very inbred?

I think that's important. If they've got enough of a breeding population to avoid genetic problems, their village is too large to go unnoticed for 700 years.

However, what if they have retained some contact with Inuit in the area, to the point that they are even able to expand their gene pool slightly. The resulting culture (and their general appearance) would be a blend of Inuit and Norse, although possibly keeping a Norse-like language.

This may be sufficient to keep them relatively unnoticed by explorers and the government, as it takes closer anthropological studies to realize their heritage. That is, as long as no one actually hears them speak.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Interesting, but ASB. Also, wouldn't they be very inbred?
I think that's important. If they've got enough of a breeding population to avoid genetic problems, their village is too large to go unnoticed for 700 years.

However, what if they have retained some contact with Inuit in the area, to the point that they are even able to expand their gene pool slightly. The resulting culture (and their general appearance) would be a blend of Inuit and Norse, although possibly keeping a Norse-like language.

This may be sufficient to keep them relatively unnoticed by explorers and the government, as it takes closer anthropological studies to realize their heritage. That is, as long as no one actually hears them speak.


while i know there certainly would be blending with the local Inuit populations, i want to keep the "found" population Norse (at least partly in appearance and in culture) :/ now one idea I had was to have had the population continually be in decline for the last hundred and fifty, two hundred years (aka falling population rate would mean that higher pop in past would have eliminated most of genetic problems, yet now smaller falling population would mean smaller settlement and easier to stay hidden). LOL, and I apologize for that poorly written paragraph. I've been up most of the previous night writing a geography paper :/ lol. thanks for your comments and feedbacks:p:cool:
 
The last Inuit population, found by Stephanenson (sp) circa 1907, were 6,000 or so. But that was an isolated part of the inland passage. Explorers had long been that way, but only during summer when the locals all went fishing in incountry lakes. Thus they were overlooked.

However, far more isolated. Maybe your scenario could have an adaptive icefishing/summer upland. Be advised that according to one discovery show type video, the local indians were extremely warlike (plus the Vikings in Vinland unintentionally gave milk to lactose intolerant tribesmen, thus the charge of poisoning and subsequent war). More warlike than just about any tribe. They would know of the settlers and would want to settle them permanently but not gently.

Pretty ASB, also because Icelandic/Greenlandic settlers were notoriously
unadaptive to crops and herding animals. Case in point was 1783 famine
caused by the mega volcanic outburst (up to 2,500 feet red lava fountain)
having deadly flourine at high levels which poisoned the sheep. 25% of
Icelandics died, mostly of starvation. Fishing would have overcome this,
with the island surrounded by the same. Now is different, before they
avoided it, in part due to lack of woodlands to make ships I guess and
of course the hiddeous Danish trade monopoly.
 
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/explorers/page/s/stefansson.shtml

Vilhjalmur Stefansson (November 3, 1879 - August 26, 1962) was a Canadian explorer (born of Icelandic parents) who explored the Canadian Arctic and lived among the Inuits (Eskimos) for many years. Stefansson's exploration of the Canadian Arctic led him to realize that the area was important economically, and he promoted polar development.

After studying anthropology, Stefansson went on his first Arctic expedition in 1906-1097; this trip was led by the Danish explorer Ejnar Mikkelson. They traveled to Herschel Island (in the Beaufort Sea just north of the Yukon), and Stefansson began studying the language and culture of the Inuit and the Mackenzie River Indians. Stefansson met Roald Amundsen towards the end of this trip. In 1908, Stefansson returned to the Arctic with the Canadian zoologist Rudolph M. Anderson, traveling to Herschel Island, Cape Parry, and the south side of Victoria Island. They encountered the Copper Inuit (a previously unknown group of Inuits who made and used copper tools). Stefansson stayed with the Copper Inuit until 1912. Since many of these Native Americans had European features and some had blue eyes, Stefansson theorized that they were a mixture of Native Americans and early Norse explorers or the lost expedition of Sir John Franklin. Although his theory was not accepted, it did give Stefansson quite a bit of notoriety.

-------------------------
This is in the North West inside passage area, inbetween the mainland and
huge Victoria Island. Whalers discovered some other Inuit/Eskimo
population that were on Victoria Island a couple years previously, and
there were some more around the area. The New Enland whaler
population tribe discovered a discarded exploration vessel on huge
Banks Island, part of their territory, and cannibalized it over generations,
sort of like a UFO landing in 2001 stone age tribesmen. Very isolated
region, whereas any Laborador area is positively Grand Central Station
by comparison, though an extreme point of Eskimos settlement
borders it. Ice free for several months a year is another difference.
Some years in the North West Passage are not ice free for multi
annual stretches.
 
falling population rate would mean that higher pop in past would have eliminated most of genetic problems, yet now smaller falling population would mean smaller settlement and easier to stay hidden

Well, a larger population won't eliminate genetic problems, the founder effect can still start to build as a large population dwindles to a smaller population. However, the genetic issues may take a few generations before they really start showing up. I assume this is what you mean. How long depends on many, many factors.

On the other hand, genetic disorders rampant in the population could actually add some drama or subplots to the storyline. Not saying it's going to be as bad as this X-Files episode (sorry, I know that storyline has been done elsewhere as well, but I couldn't think of the movie), but you could go somewhere towards that way, or focus on other genetic disorders depending on the type of story you're writing.
 
Last edited:
After studying anthropology, Stefansson went on his first Arctic expedition in 1906-1097; this trip was led by the Danish explorer Ejnar Mikkelson. They traveled to Herschel Island (in the Beaufort Sea just north of the Yukon), and Stefansson began studying the language and culture of the Inuit and the Mackenzie River Indians. Stefansson met Roald Amundsen towards the end of this trip. In 1908, Stefansson returned to the Arctic with the Canadian zoologist Rudolph M. Anderson, traveling to Herschel Island, Cape Parry, and the south side of Victoria Island. They encountered the Copper Inuit (a previously unknown group of Inuits who made and used copper tools). Stefansson stayed with the Copper Inuit until 1912. Since many of these Native Americans had European features and some had blue eyes, Stefansson theorized that they were a mixture of Native Americans and early Norse explorers or the lost expedition of Sir John Franklin. Although his theory was not accepted, it did give Stefansson quite a bit of notoriety.

them being the descendants of norse seafarers would explain both their physical features and their metal tool usage. i wonder, do you happen to know if they have actually done any recent genetic testing to see if there is norse DNA in their genome??

edit: i googled this and came up with only one study done on this topic (from a genetics point of view) and they found no traces of norse DNA, but they tested only a small sample size and from a relatively small region. so i guess its still up for debate. lol. those blue eyes and fair hair had to have come from somewhere.
 
Last edited:
them being the descendants of norse seafarers would explain both their physical features and their metal tool usage. i wonder, do you happen to know if they have actually done any recent genetic testing to see if there is norse DNA in their genome??


They did a study a few years ago and found no match. So far the
idea is out of luck. If not, then wikipedia would not say "gained
notoriety", sort of like a strange person becoming "eccentric" after
winning the lottery or discovering something.

Here is the wikipedia article on the issue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blond_Eskimos

Blond Eskimos was the name first given to what are known today as the Copper Inuit by the Canadian explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson who visited and described them in 1910. He later regretted the name and preferred to call them Copper Eskimos. They reside on both sides of Coronation Gulf between mainland Canada and Victoria Island, and their first contact with Westerners may go back to Sir John Franklin in 1821 and Dease and Simpson in 1838-9.[citation needed] A frequent occurrence of light hair and gray or blue eyes exists amongst them,[citation needed] while most other New World peoples have dark hair and brown eyes. In his book My Life with the Eskimos, Stefánsson proposed several explanations:
He rejected the second explanation because "if the mixing of races is so recent, it would appear that it should be most conspicuous farther east where the whalers had their headquarters, fading away as one goes westward. The opposite is the case".
In 2003, two Icelandic scientists, the geneticist and anthropologists Agnar Helgason and Gisli Palsson announced the results of their research comparing DNA from 100 Cambridge Bay Inuit with DNA from Icelanders, and concluded that there was no match.[1]
In 2008, in an article in Current Anthropology, Palsson concludes that recent work "refutes Stefansson’s speculations on the Copper Inuit".[2]

Note that the DNA does not refute the prehistoric, non icelandic type of person
being part of the gene pool. Also, blue eyes are supposedly only 7,000 or so
years old, a relatively recent introduction to the world's gene pool. Green eyes
and red/blonde/brown hair are not dated at present, but some Neanderthals are
listed in DNA as having light skin and maybe reddish hair (national geographic
cover).
 
The metal use has nothing to do with non stone age technology. The
extraction method was due to natural outcroppings, little different than
the metal iron meteor that Peary liberated from the Greenland Eskimos
(their only source for knives) and is/was in the New York Museum of
Natural History. Such use was common around the world, although the
eskimos went farther in some ways (the stone sign posts all over
parts of the Baffin Island/etc are up to 4,000 or so years old, used
in case of snow storm disorientations and looking like a man often).
 
Top