A bit of fun with the ATV (Automated Transfer Vehicle, currently docked to the ISS)
Some manned spacecrafts/ ATV hybrids.
- Hermes
- Falcon X "CXV"
- Apollo CM
- CEV
- Klipper
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Well, the Chinese are rumoured to be planning to build a space station mostly out of the orbital modules from their Shenzhous (which are much smaller than the ATV). So if the ATV had a hatch at each end (as I believe has been considered for a variant that would dock to the ISS and allow a Soyuz to dock to the back) then couldn't you build up a space station out of ATV units?The ATV is a big thing you know. Around 4.5 m diameter, 10 m long, 20 metric tons.
I tried to respect respective diameters of the spacecrafts.
Consider the ATV more as pressurised module than a tug.
A kind of very small space station!
In-space refuelling? Interesting. I've seen that concept before but it usually involves a space station.Archibald said:Btw this could make, too, an interesting alt-history.
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/rombus.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/proelena.htm
Rombus was a Big single-engine rocket, with external / expendable tanks (otherwise Single-stage-to-orbit is not feasible, even today).
So tanks are jettisoned on the way to low-earth orbit.
If you replace them while in Earth orbit by fully-fueled tanks (carried by others Rombus) this thing can fire its rocket engine again and carry heavy loads to the moon.
Well, the Chinese are rumoured to be planning to build a space station mostly out of the orbital modules from their Shenzhous (which are much smaller than the ATV). So if the ATV had a hatch at each end (as I believe has been considered for a variant that would dock to the ISS and allow a Soyuz to dock to the back) then couldn't you build up a space station out of ATV units?
Maybe with a couple of six-way connector things to allow it to branch, as with Mir.
In space refueling sounds a bit difficult (pumping low-density, explosive hydrogen is not an esay task even on earth...)
Using fully-fueled tanks sounds easier.
Trouble with hydrogen in space is, as a deep cryogenic fuel it tend to boil quickly, leaving two alternatives
- venting and losing fuel
- explosion.
This didn't prevented studies of reusable Space Tugs in the 70's and the 80's, refueled by a station.
with out structural improvement
2700 kg in 200x1000 km orbit
with structural improvement
4720 kg in 200x200 km orbit
why that?
Ariane 1 was design to launch only 1780 kg in to 200 x 36000 km orbit
later for Ariane 4 this structural improvement was made.
Note On Ariane 5 study in beginn 1980s
a Ariane 4 first stage and 4 Liquid fuel Booster
so in total 9-8 Viking engnie
second stage a big LOX/LH2 stage H45 with HM 60 engine
third stage a H10 (from Ariane 4) or small N2O4/UDMH stage.
to Capsule
in 1980 was Proposal "SOLARIS"
(Station Orbitale Laboratoire Automatique de Rendezvous et d'Interventions Spatiales)
from Center National d`Etudes Spatiales - Toulouse france
put a Orbital Platform "Modul de servis"
on that later is dockt a Labo Modul based Space Lab tech.
to servis that it use automatic Space Craft MINOS
a Space Capsul with servis module the small N2O4/UDMH stage of Ariane 5
total weight 12000 kg in Low orbit with 2300 kg cargo
later MINOS had to carry 3 Astronaut into orbit.
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from SOLARIS SYSTEM survide only as MTFF for Hermes shuttle
more on MTFF Hermes and end of it
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/hermes.htm
in french
http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_europeen/hermes/index.htm
Didn't see the message yesterday! The Solaris and Eureka were the unmanned, early platforms.
-Chelomei OKB-52 replace Korolev OKB-1 after dead of Korolev
-Valentin Petrovich Glushko replace Korolev in may 1967 and give order to build UR-700
Please, go ahead.
This is a nonwank because, although there would be more and cheaper launches than OTL (and more people in space) the lack of the shuttle's cargo capacity would obviate some of the triumphs we've had in OTL (probably the Hubble Space Telescope...)
Archibald, cool stuff as always...Bump. I'm slowly developing the Titan III/ Big G idea.
I've altered the book "the space shuttle decision" so it become "the Big Gemini decision".
POD is august 1971.
btw, note on the Hubble telescope. http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/m/morlhubb.jpg
This a 1965 concept : a MORL station launched by a Saturn IB (thus 18 tons) with a 120 inch (3 m) telescope.
It was manned![]()
I think Hubble could be cure of its myopia without the Shuttle :
maybe Big G + robotic arm + MMU astronauts could do the job...
I think I'll put it on a blog one day
In short : as Big Gemini as no payload bay, let a surrogate payload bay hanged to Hubble!
wat about this
Big G with only 2 men crew (like Gemini B)
the passenger comparment section is used as smal payload bay with doors
wat about the reuse of Big G Reentry Vehicle ?
is land on runway by parasail so no damage by seawater