A Non-Isolationist Japan

Nobody is saying there are not incentives for Japan to try and grab Spanish America. But just because somebody wants to do something, that doesn't mean they can do something.

And if Japan tried to develop California as a colony as a forward base to attack Mexico, there are several issues. For starters, Tokyo to San Francisco isn't appreciably shorter than Tokyo to Acapulco, so logistics are still going to be an utter pain, with serious wastage in men and material.

This is going to take a seriously long time, decades at a minimum, which gives the Spanish plenty of time to discover the effort and prepare. And Madrid (and definitely Mexico City) will be able to hit California faster than Japan can reinforce.

This is also ignoring the fact that San Francisco bay wasn't even discovered until 1769, long after Japan went isolationist.

Seriously, why are people thinking that Japan could sustain an army numbering in the tens of thousands over an eight thousand mile long supply line that takes six months on average to traverse? Because they either have to do that, or enact a plan that will take at least half a century to come to fruition, and no government is that patient, and which could be wrecked by Spain in the exceedingly large window of warning.
 
I was working towards this with a TL but got bogged down with real life work stuff. :(


Japan wasn't backwards by the 19th century. It wasn't as advanced as the UK certainly, but compared to the parts of Europe the industrial revolution hadn't hit yet? Just as if not more advanced. They had a very sophisticated urban culture.


Whats with all the talk of Japan invading the Americas? IOTL they never even bothered with Ezo. I think you'll see Japanese free enterprisers getting involved in the Americas but no way will they be getting rid of the Spanish there and its unlikely the government will be getting too involved.
Japan's primary concern was always China. Their mindset wasn't quite so Chinese as that of Korea but that kind of thinking was there to an extent; China was the only important place in the world and was their main concern.
 

katchen

Banned
The Japanese wouldn't bother with Ezo in the 17th Century because the 17th Century is deep in the Maunders Minimum of the Little Ice Age. There is maybe one patch of reasonably arable land at that time around Kushiro and Etorofu. But it is on the way, via the Great Circle and the Aleutians at 55 degrees North to the rich fur trading areas of the Inside Passage of what we now call British Columbia , culminating in Puget Sound and the Willlamette Valley. That, not San Francisco Bay would be the initial thrust of Japan's North American colonization. And yes, rice can be and is grown in the Fraser River Delta. From there, gold can be found close inland near Kamloops BC and silver rather further inland near what is now Kellogg ID and the Cleaarwater River off the Snake..
As for Spain getting it's act together in the New World over the threat of Japan, there's a limit to what Spain can do when it is busy dealing with a) the Thirty Years War and b) the Succession Crisis leading up to the war of the Spanish Succession as the 17th Century draws to a close. One would think for example, that with New Mexico so close, the Spanish would at least send some people to look for gold and silver deposits in the uppermost Rio Grande (now Creede CO) let alone a few days further up in the Upper Arkansas (Leadville ) and the Upper Platte (Fairplay). But they didn't. It's only once we get to the 18th Century that Spain starts to have enough stability to start sinking some resources into it's colonies once again and that's OTTL.
 
What I don't understand is why Japan would try to go for Spanish America when they would have their hands full with maritime Asia. Indonesia,Malaysia and the Philippines alone would be too much for them and even then there's Oceania which is full of headhunters and cannibals who also have a great maritime tradition. Even Australia would be too much for them, unless they somehow forged an alliance with one of the Indonesian tribes.
 
Top