A New World Under Rome

Well, I figure I should just get down to business.

My idea starts in the year 1620, with the Mayflower taking its fateful journey. Instead of the wind knocking it off course to Cape Cod, the ship is steered into more treacherous waters, and sinks, killing every Puritan on board. This discourages the Puritans in England from heading to North America, and instead, the people set their sights on what is now Brazil. However, when the people land there, they find rather aggressive push from the Portuguese, who feel that it is their territory. This push results in the Puritans fighting back, and unfortunately, killing a rather high-ranking official overviewing the territory.

Portugal is outraged, and tensions rise to dramatic lengths between it and England. Spain, itching for a chance to strike back at Britain for its humiliating defeat, forms an alliance with Portugal, and convinces the Portuguese king Felipe IV to make war on the island nation. Spain and Portugal also sow seeds of discord in Ireland, who was bitter with England about conquering them once more in the 1530s. So, England had three nations against it, but was sure that it could take them, for "God is English".

Sadly, this did not hold true as the three nations struck against Britain in a massive siege in 1642, and conquering the island entirely in 1647. The British monarchy fled to France with many loyalists. For reasons unknown, the French monarch, Louis XIV pushed Cardinal Mazarin to allow the British to establish a small territory in Normandy, on the condition that Charles I converted to Catholicism once more. In a bind, the king agreed, and recieved the territory of British Normandy to rule over with the few remaining "English Diaspora" as they are now known.

England's territories were quickly swept up or left to rot on their own, with the neglected colonies in North America, which were fewer than in our own history, forced to ally with the French who had given their monarch a home. The British East India Company dissolved quickly, and the merchants there were forced to remain in India and become part of the community there. Ireland was allowed autonomy by the Portuguese for their aid, and became the Gaelic Free State.

Thus, the English empire was destroyed before it could even really begin. In spite of this, the New World still beckoned, and a man by the name of Sir Forsythe of British Normandy traveled to the throne of Ferdinand III, Holy Roman Emperor, and attempted to convince him to send colonists over to what is in our world, Plymouth, Massachusetts. Originally, the Emperor was not interested, more focused on reuniting the Holy Roman Empire. In 1652, the Emperor reconsidered after a long debate with his advisors and sent a small amount of colonists with Forsythe to Plymouth. The colonists landed there, and named the settlement "Eronebung". The Protestant members of the colonies there were less than pleased about the new Catholic residents, and forbid trade for a while, but a devestated economy and famine forced the people to join with the settlement, if only for trade, as well as the fact that they were already well aware of working with the very Catholic French. Amazed with the success of the colony, the Holy Roman Emperors started to send more and more colonists to the New World, eventually occupying all of where the 13 colonies originall were.

In this time, France had slowly progressed into a Constitutional Monarchy, under impression from the British Normans, who seemed to be more or less stable under such conditions. The French Constitution, the "Declaration of Rights of The Frenchman Under the Rule of the French Monarchy", was drafted in 1664, under Louis XIV, and fully implemented in 1665. It outlined the rights and responsibilites of every citizen and noble, and gave special outlines for Nouvelle France and its governance.

Meanwhile, Russia slowly moved down from Alaska thanks to peaked interest in the New World, sending most of their criminals to Alaska and Russian Kolumbiq.

This is just the first bit. The timeline continues to 1910, where I plan for the stories to take place. I've noticed a few problems with how things work, like France granting England a territory at all, or Portugal really overtaking England, not to mention the lack of interest the Holy Roman Empire had in the New World at the time. I would like help in making this feasible, in any way possible.
 
Spain and Portugal destroy England?

Louis XIV one of the most territorial monarchs of the period willingly gives French territory up so Charles can be crowned . . .


Sorry - i just can't see this happening, the alliance between Portugal and England was over 300 years old at this point and the Portuguese were usually more worried about preserving their independance from Spain.
 
Hm, I see you point, but there's also the problem of the East India company muscling in on Portugal's territory. Ultimately, it's the end result that matters, which is England being defeated and having more Catholics in North America than Protestants.

Would a secondary Spanish attack perhaps work? I have no idea where the English would go, but I suppose the English Diaspora idea doesn't have to go through.
 
Um...

IIRC the Puritans were heading for Virginia originally anyways. Ships were lost at sea at the time; no need to start a war over it. Next group, if there is one, simply heads to more settled english colonies.

The king of Portugal in 1620 is, technically speaking, Filipe III. However, it is correct to refer to him as Felipe IV, seeing as that was his title as... King of Spain. the two kingdoms are in a personal union, and will be until about 1640 when Felipe dies and João IV begins the house of Braganza.

The Habsburg empire isn't exactly in a position to conquer the English at this time. Sort of busy with more pressing matters, such as the Dutch.

Ireland at this time being a useful ally against Britain seems a bit silly. So does the notion of a great war against the british Isles with the intent of taking it all, much less that such an adventure actually succeeds. For proof, look at the last time the Iberian states tried something like this (hint: 1588). At this point, the Spanish empire is still a going concern, and will be for centuries, but conquering and holding england is ludicrous.

Why on earth would the French decide to give the english Normandy? It makes no sense in that day and age; they refused to do so even at the nadir of the Hundred Years War. At this point, the british are permanently evicted from the continent; why welcome them back? Much more useful, if you want the british monarch, to take him into exile, as various courts did with Charles II IOTL.

The BEIC does exist at the time, but it was a fledgling entity. Nobody, especially not the spanish, is going to care about it.

And a Gaelic Free State? In the 17th century? Surely you jest, sir.

No offense is intended, but methinks that this requires more than a little work.
 
Yeah, I understand. The original idea is that more Catholic countries end up taking North America rather than the Protestant English, hence the title, so I suppose I was more focused on that and England never forming an empire, seeing as its so crucial to history in the region. I'm surprised no one has brought up how unlikely it is that the Holy Roman Empire would ever even set a colony up in NA, though.

Still, any ideas for how to have England kick the bucket and have more nations take foot in North America? We already have Spanish Mexico and Nouvelle France which would eventually become Louisiana, but we still have the space the Thirteen Colonies would take up, which would be up for grabs without England.
 
Just another note here; from what I've read, the whole idea couldn't really work. I'll leave this topic to rot, then. Thanks for pointing out what was wrong, though. Ehehe, kinda embarassing for someone who thinks of themself as a history buff.
 
Never mind this post! Sorry!

EDIT: Sorry, this is rather awkward. I thought i was looking at another thread, and i posted a message that would make no sense on this topic. Excuse me, please! :(
 
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Just another note here; from what I've read, the whole idea couldn't really work. I'll leave this topic to rot, then. Thanks for pointing out what was wrong, though. Ehehe, kinda embarassing for someone who thinks of themself as a history buff.

Its not a problem, man.

I can't count the number of members who have had idea's shot down, especially when they first join. The thing is, this board draws a large collection of history buffs like yourself, with a wide variety of knowledge from which to draw on. Between that and the sheer number of scenarios that we've hashed out, a lot of members of this board have a pretty good idea of what is plausible or not.

Don't let that get you down. It happens to pretty much everybody. When I think back on some of my first AH thought experiments, sometimes I laugh. Sometimes I cry. And sometimes I see something that is really worth developing. Take this as a challenge and an opportunity. Think about why your scenario isn't very workable. Toss around ideas, just to see where they lead. Develop your ideas.

Just because your first scenario is a bust really means nothing. Make it a learning experience. Lots of ideas get floated every day, and there's a lot of potential, if one only looks.

Welcome to the board.
 
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