A New Balance

[cortz#9]

On the TL front, you guys got any strange or odd weapons that were cancelled for one reason or other that could have worked with more time or money? Maybe both?

Funny you should ask, I just made a post on another thread about how the Japanese had a late war plan for using autgyros for anti submarine duty, the plan was to convert some small ships to flattops for the autogyros and to arm each of them with a depth-charge. I think they actually converted a couple of ships but they were all sunk by the allies before they became operational.
I always thought it was an interesting idea and I wonder if it could've worked? Maybe someone could try it here ITTL?

 

[jayel]

Didn't the Germans use towed Auto gyros behind U boats for ship spotting? More or less manned kites

 

[cortz#9]

Didn't the Germans use towed Auto gyros behind U boats for ship spotting?

Yeah they experimented with un powered auto gyros but the idea wasn't adopted, U-boat captains felt the subs would be too exposed to danger while on the surface prepping the auto gyros and that the gyros would end up being abandoned to a harsh fate if the sub had to detach the gyro if the enemy showed up.

 

[Jim Smitty]

UB-219
North Sea
June 23 1939


The UB-219 was one of the UB IX coastal submarines. They had been designed for operations in the Baltic in mind. Because of that they had limited range and ordnance loads but their performance in other areas more than made up for that. However, the UB IXs were something different. The UB-219 was one of the first of its class to enter the fleet, but the UB-219 hadn’t been the first of the UB IXs to turned over to the fleet for pre-commission work ups. That had been UB-218. UB-218 through had been lost with all hands, and the cause of her lost still weren’t known, but many believed it had something to do with what powered the UB IXs.


In an effort to get more power out of submarines along with given them the ability to stay underwater the Germans have fielded the first high-test peroxide engine submarines in the world. To allow them take advance of the HTP engines, they had streamline the hull design. It was clear the hull was based on the slightly older UB VIIIs design but with removable of the deck guns and making a flush design they have been able to reach a speed of 24.5 knots on trials submerged. That was over double what a UB VIII could do. The ability to steer UB IX at high speeds through was tricky at best. With a poor team it was possible to get into trouble easily, it was why only the best were being selected for UB IX training. Even through the UB IX needed a crew of 18 it had 4 officers, and 5 senior enlisted billets per boat which was far higher than other UB boats.


For the UB-219 this was for first operational patrol, and first for any UB IX type. Even through they had a major edges with speed and not needing to surface, their armament was limited. They only had two forward tubes with only a single reload for each. To make up for their limited torpedo load they had elected for use of the H24 60 cm Torpedo. Which carried 45 kilograms more explosive than the more standard G21 53 cm Torpedo which carried 280 kilograms of explosive in their warheads. It was hoped that by the extra explosive weight would be enough for the UB IXs to sink most ships in the Baltic or otherwise cripple it so it can be sunk by other units. It was why the UB IXs were a limited production run of 12 boats with them being the lead on to a design for the North Sea.


Kapitänleutnant Karl Fischer was behind the periscope of his boat. He was marking his targets, a pair of Minsk heavy cruisers. Unknown to Fischer the Minsk and her sister ship with escorts had already destroyed the convoy that was sailing to Turku along with their escorts. But none of that matter now. Fischer had his targets in sight and he was making his two torpedoes count now. He had the lead ship as his target. Given the speeds the target was moving at and his own boat was making giving it enough lead tricky.


The two torpedoes were fired within seconds of each other. Once the final torpedo was fired Fischer ordered his boat to dive. Not that it would help much as they only had about 63 meters to work with before they hit the ocean floor. But every meter was important here. As the boat was diving Fischer was watching his stopwatch. His math gave his torpedoes a time run of about 4 minutes and 45 seconds before they should strike the lead ship. He then threw his boat into a tight turn to put him somewhere other than where his torpedoes had been fired from because he knew he most likely kicked over the hornet’s nest with this.


Just a few seconds after his math the crew heard a single explosion. It struck the Minsk just forward of her forward triple turret. The force of the blast but some weaknesses in her design that the Italians failed to point out caused the bow to be ripped off her. Along with ripping of the bow off it caused a number of water tight doors to become ajar in the remaining forward parts of the ship from shock damage. This did set up off the Soviet destroyers in a mad effort to hunt down their unknown attacker but the UB 219 got away scot free. If left behind a crippled Minsk that could only do 4 knots in reserve and was down at what now was the bow.

 

[Cryostorm]

So are they going to abandon her or is the German fleet going to catch them in a second engagement, If they catch them the Soviet Baltic Fleet is done.

 

[Jim Smitty]

So are they going to abandon her or is the German fleet going to catch them in a second engagement, If they catch them the Soviet Baltic Fleet is done.

This is the Soviet Union we are talking about here, so draw you own conclusions about what's going to happen next.

 

[Jim Smitty]

Danzig
Imperial German Naval Baltic HQ
June 24 1939


Admiral Hans Heydrich was studying the map table before him. The Soviet sortie into the Baltic had created a fucking mess as some of his American friends and counterparts would say. His forces together with the Swedes and Finns have won the day but at what cost? Was this a pyrrhic victory Heydrich wonder as he studied the map in the early hours of the 24th. Or the late hours of 23rd depending on you looked at. However events in the Baltic over the past 24 hours had happened at a rapid pace and understanding them meant lack of sleep. The key to everything right now was the Turku Evacuation and the Soviets had thrown a wrench into those operations.


Of the eleven merchants that had been on the inbound convoy to Turku from Stockholm only three had escaped so far. The main killer hadn’t been the surface ships the Soviets had sortied into the Baltic, it had been their submarine and air arm. With the escorts busy dealing with the surface threat the submarines and air units of the Red Baltic Fleet had a field day. But of the merchants who had escaped so far one had beached itself on one of the Aland Islands to keep from sinking. Another had turned around and was making its way back to Stockholm and the other was heading north to Gulf of Bothnia in an effort to get away from the Soviets. Possible that captain was making his way to Sundsvall. However, he didn’t know what that merchant captain was thinking at the moment.


However, Heydrich knew he had to get the convoys going again. The army was screaming bloody fucking murder to get the Finnish Army, or what was left of it out of Turku. The need for troops was massive at the moment and the demand was increasing. Even through the Soviet Army hadn’t made any break throughs yet, things across the continent was a fucking mess. The Swiss invasion had reached its limited objects and were planning to starve them into surrender but at far higher cost than what had been projected. Things were a cluster in Norway. Relations with the Netherlands were going to hell in a hand bag with some shooting already happening between Dutch forces and German and Belgian forces in the air, but the same held true with the Dutch and British as well. So far it hadn’t started on land but some were wondering if that was a matter of time at this point. It was why the OHL was screaming to get the Finnish troops out of Turku.


At the moment he was trying to figure out how to get another convoy to Turku ASAP. It wasn’t for lack of merchants, he currently had seven merchants at Stockholm waiting with more making their way to the rally point there. The problem was finding escorts for them. With the heaviest unit left in the Soviet Baltic Fleet being a light cruiser the surface fleet wasn’t a major treat anymore. The main threat left to the convoys making the Stockholm-Turku run right now were submarines, aircraft, and light units of the Soviet Navy. From aerial reconnaissance of the Finnish coast he knew the Soviets were setting up a torpedo squadron at Hanko. That was a freaking nightmare and he knew it. If he had enough escorts this wouldn’t be a problem, however it was a problem because he lost too many ships in this battle that had been fought over the past 24 hours.


Looking at the map he saw only one answer. He called out, “Alfred, orders for the fleet.” At that his senior aid came running. “The Battleships are to make for the nearest friendly port that is not under threat from the Soviets at all possible speed. Same for the Swedish mini-battleships. I want the escorts assigned to those units to make for Stockholm at best possible speed as well.”

 

[Jim Smitty]

Guayaquil
Port Area
July 7 1939


The military coup that overthrew the communist government in Quito had caught everyone off guard. No one believed that the military had the power to do it but when it happened it simply shocked the world. Because of the total surprise of it no one had troops in place to do shit about it for a few weeks. Since April the Ecuadorian Army had to hold out against redeployed Colombian and Peruvian units with limited American air support out of the Galapagos Islands. That however was changing today as the first major American convoy was currently in dock at the only major port in the nation. A port that was only miles from the front at the moment.


As troops of the 48th Infantry Division (NG) were being unloaded, aerial cover was being given by the USN with a single flat top off the coast. The 48th Infantry Division drew its units from Oregon, Washington, Idaho, and Cascadia[1]. Even through Cascadian units were Territorial Guard instead of National Guard as part of the reforming of the guard in the mid-30s folded them into the 48th Infantry Division after the draft started again. However, in April they were still training up for service in Mexico, however once Ecuador flipped, they had been retasked to South America and helping the new ally there.


Before the 48th Infantry Division could be sent, the men and few women at Foggy Bottom Sound had to do a lot of fancy footwork. It also didn’t help matters that things were fairly fluid in Ecuador in the aftermath of the formation of the military junta. The Ecuadorian communist simply didn’t go quietly into the night or to their executions. It wasn’t till early May that junta had brought the bulk of the nation under their control but were now having to fend off attacks from their former allies as they pulled troops off their already thin lines to take on the piss ant Ecuadorians. This took pressure of the Chileans who were still in a very tight spot through. The Ecuadorians held but it was during this time that Washington and Quito came to terms about the future.


Under the terms of the Treaty of San Diego sign between the United States and Ecuador the Ecuadorians gave up all rights to the Galapagos Islands. The US didn’t officially annex them under this treaty but they did become a US territory by the terms of the treaty[2]. However, the US promised under the terms of the treaty to enforce Ecuador’s border claims with Peru and get Lima to accept it. Further the US promised to give Ecuador economic aid after the war to help get its economy going again along with low interest loans to help them fund their war efforts. Most of these terms were agreed to with Brazil as well in the Treaty of Rio which was signed a week after the Treaty of San Diego.


The US and Brazil both made an effort to get the junta to hand over the communist they had before they understood that the junta was simply killing any communist it caught. Well the ones who had been forced to join or joined to keep their ration cards after the communist were being dealt with a much lighter touch than those who had been communist party members prior to the communist taking power in Ecuador. However both Washington and Rio drew a line in their treaties with the Ecuadorians. The junta could purge all they wanted to within their own borders, but captured Colombian and Peruvian communist had to be turned over to them. Washington and to a lesser degree Rio wanted to make a statement to the communist that they weren’t playing games anymore. Public hangings were generally a good statement on such matters, but the Ecuadorians were doing pistols to the base of the skull in private with unmarked graves. Washington together with Rio wanted to make it clear that communist would never be allowed to take hold in the new world again.


Right now through it was time to form the 48th Infantry Division up into combat units and send them to the front.


[1] Cascadia is what the US renamed British Colombia.

[2] The US is planning to annex them, but they know that this war is going to change everything so they are waiting for the big peace talks to start before they officially annex anything.

 

[Zoidberg12]

I have to say, I love how this timeline and story goes against the whole "South America is irrelevant" AH trope. All in all, there are a lot of interesting things going on in South America in this world.

Are Brazil and Argentina officially involved in the war yet? If they are then the two would be fighting along their border, Brazil would be fighting the Colombians, Venezuelans, Peruvians and Bolivians and the Argentines would be fighting the Chileans. With Chile fighting on all sides against Argentina, Peru, Bolivia and the other South American Axis nations, I can see they would be in such a tough spot.

 

[Jim Smitty]

I have to say, I love how this timeline and story goes against the whole "South America is irrelevant" AH trope. All in all, there are a lot of interesting things going on in South America in this world.

Are Brazil and Argentina officially involved in the war yet? If they are then the two would be fighting along their border, Brazil would be fighting the Colombians, Venezuelans, Peruvians and Bolivians and the Argentines would be fighting the Chileans. With Chile fighting on all sides against Argentina, Peru, Bolivia and the other South American Axis nations, I can see they would be in such a tough spot.

Yes Brazil and Argentina are officially in the war and fighting each other. The whole of South America is fighting, save for Uruguay. They are pro-American/Brazilian in this whole mess but they don't want to fight in this cluster.

 

[Zoidberg12]

Yes Brazil and Argentina are officially in the war and fighting each other. The whole of South America is fighting, save for Uruguay. They are pro-American/Brazilian in this whole mess but they don't want to fight in this cluster.

Interesting. What side is Paraguay on?

Even though Uruguay is nuetral, I could still see a legion of Uruguayan soldiers fighting under Brazillian command.

 

[Jim Smitty]

Interesting. What side is Paraguay on?

Even though Uruguay is nuetral, I could still see a legion of Uruguayan soldiers fighting under Brazillian command.

The Paraguay are on the Washington-Rio side of the war.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

it seems the South American front should be wrapped up pretty quickly after a few actions and surrenders. But I wonder will any of the South American allies assist the US against Britain and Japan? Even if they don't help militarily they could still help manpower shortages in the U.S. with large guest worker programs to bring up production or perhaps they can make a type of military unit made of foreign volunteers if the war becomes bad enough. Japan like OTL could be dealt with easily enough once they start slamming the American industrial machine against it up until an attempted invasion of the home Islands. Though I wonder instead of the home Islands could they invade occupied Korea?

Also what chance will there be of Mexico being totally annexed?

I wonder what the gulf of Finland would look like with all the tension going on, I imagine the Soviets will be held back on the northern shore by sheer weather and logistical conditions alone so Sweden should be safe and from there they can hold off the soviets and British. Believe or not OTL soviet union was only able to be so powerful because of all the U.S. support(and OIL!), without it they would be more limited.

 

[Jim Smitty]

@EmperorOfTheNorthSea the only two points I will touch from your post.

The US annexing all of Mexico, that's just not a no but a hell no. ITL the US is still figuring out what it really wants in this war, as honestly they didn't expect this. They knew war was coming, but not for the world to blow up like this. Because of that they are having to rethink their pre-war plans to be with the reality of what is not what they thought would happen.

As to the Gulf of Finland after the Battle of the Baltic, well I will be getting back to that one.

 

[Jim Smitty]

Near Venlo
Dutch Army Checkpoint
July 14 1939


The Dutch Army in Europe was on high alert as the nation was mobilizing. In its planning before the start of the current hostilities between the dueling factions in Europe the Dutch believed that they would be able to maintain neutrality as it had done during what was now being called the First World War. They however didn’t count on the British, Belgians, and Germans all just not giving a shit and overfly the Netherlands almost at will. Well the British were far worse offenders than the Belgian or Germans were but still they overflew their territory when it suited their own needs. The war of words was heating up between Amsterdam and London along with Amsterdam and Berlin. It further was leaving the Dutch with no good outs.


In their pre-war planning they saw a vastly different war developing than what has happened. What they saw happening was the Japanese trying to take their East Indies Colonies than through diplomatic footwork they would get either the United States or the German Empire to come to their aid, maybe even both. The British would then throw the Japanese under the bus. Following that the Dutch figured the British would then pick a fight with the communist in Africa and take the communist colonies there before forcing the communist in Madrid and Lisbon to sue for terms. What has happened through was putting Dutch into a corner with no way out expect via a painful exit of said corner. It was why the Dutch was fully mobilizing their army right now which was moving up from the half mobilized they had performed when this new world war started earlier this year.


Only there was one major problem with the Dutch Army at the moment. The Dutch had long believed that any war they would fight would be in the Dutch East Indies. The bulk of their army, navy, and air force was stationed there. That meant the Dutch Army was having to mobilize partly trained troops with badly outdated equipment to beef up their army in Europe as the diplomats were trying to find a way out of this increasing poor position the Dutch found themselves in without entering the war. This was causing some units to be equipped with equipment that had been declared obsolete over 20 or 30 years prior but had still been in Dutch arsenals in 1939.


Beside issues with equipment, the Dutch were having issues with personal. The bulk of their trained soldiers were overseas and were currently mobilizing veterans who had already performed their services to the nation. Yet the Dutch really didn’t have the reserve systems that other European Powers had and it was affecting their full mobilization efforts at the moment. This lack of a reserve system had the Dutch Army taking cadets from Koninklijke Militaire Academie and putting them in charge of positions across the nation as the nation mobilized. This was also true of enlisted soldiers.


It was how at this critical army checkpoint a partly trained officer cadet and partly trained soldiers were watching the Germans on the other side of the border. Located on the east banks of the Meuse River with key bridges that would have to be taken in any invasion, this position was important. It should been manned by better trained troops, however the way the Dutch Army had been designed there just wasn’t any to be had at the moment. The only permeant troops assigned to Europe was training commands with basically everything else in the Dutch East Indies to defend it against a possible Japanese invasion. However, the Dutch was paying for this miscalculated now.


Vaandrig Joris Ursula was on edge. Only a few weeks ago he was getting ready to go into his third year at KMA, now he was standing in this outpost in the nautical twilight. It was his first posting to this outpost. For the past week he had been given training for how to properly command an outpost like this one than he had been issued an old MAS 1873 Revolver. Thankfully his troops were a bit better armed than he was. They had a pair of Maxim Machine Guns and the rest had Mannlicher rifles. That was far better than the troops being issued Vetterli rifles, however those troops were well away from the borders at the moment.


Then Ursula and the rest of his troops heard the sound of a petrol engine coming from the German side of the border. Ursula was jumpy and called out, “Get ready this might be a German invasion!” Honestly it was total non-sense. The Germans were simply changing the watch at their own outpost only a kilometer away. Ursula was busy calling in command to ask for orders as he honestly believed the Germans might be trying to invade. Before he had a chance to finish power up his field telephone, gunshots rang out.


Not bothering to see it was one of his own machine gun teams that had slipped up and fire by mistake, Ursula called out, “Open fire!” As he was in near panic now as he was working on the field telephone to get higher headquarters. But at this point all hell was breaking loose as the Germans returned fire after the Dutch started to open fire with everything they had in their outpost.

 

[cortz#9]

Wow what a time for a fuck-up but it should be explainable I'd think, unless the Germans want a reason to invade, in which case talk, about one side getting lucky.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Honestly I could see a situation where the dutch and germans negotiate a peace after this incident and the dutch agree to side with the Germans.

The US annexing all of Mexico, that's just not a no but a hell no.

Yeah but they have already annexed most of it and with it being a pain in the side for so long American citizens could get behind annexing Mexico, I mean the only problem with it is the Mexicans living there but as you're previous posts have shown racism and such have died down and Mexicans in north Mexico have been somewhat assimilated.

ITL the US is still figuring out what it really wants in this war

A good chance someone tries to promote an ATL Morgenthau plan on Britain, I mean if OTL the idea had considerable backing when Germany had only fought two world wars then fighting two world wars as well as several others if the British get the same roflstomping as Germany did OTL then there will be considerable push for eliminating British Industry.

 

[Jim Smitty]

Somewhere in The Hague
July 16 1939


Foreign Minister Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck was once again on the move. He was currently in a limo as he was being driven to the Noordeinde Palace to met with his Dutch counterpart and Dutch Prime Minister Timon Bart. As he was rubbing his old war wound one of his aids was reading to him about the state of the Dutch government and what buttons he would need to push to get the Dutch to accept the terms that he would be presenting them today after the cluster fuck that happened two days ago on the border. Nine Germans and eleven Dutch soldiers had died in that fire fight before higher command reined in their troops on both sides. More troops on both sides had been wounded The Germans however had heavier fire power than the Dutch troops as they had mortars in support whereas the Dutch didn’t. It was one of the many reasons why that the Dutch suffer far worse than the Germans did in that border battle. Today Lettow-Vorbeck was here to get the Dutch to join the German war effort.


Given what happened in the Switzerland the Dutch weren’t taking any chances of “anarchist” within the Netherlands doing something stupid. They had a group from Koninklijke Marechaussee guarding the convoy that was bring Foreign Minister von Lettow-Vorbeck to meet with the Dutch government. They had motorcycle members in front and the rear of the convoy and a modified armored car with troops in the convoy with four well trained troops and armed troops to guard Lettow-Vorbeck and the two other limos in the convoy that was making their way to Noordeinde Palace.


Only there was one problem, the OGPU knew about this planned meeting between Lettow-Vorbeck and Bart. They had a simple goal, to make sure Lettow-Vorbeck never reached that meeting. They wanted to spark another war between Germany and a neutral. Outside their Finnish offensive their first offensives had fallen well short of their goals. They wanted to remove more German troops away from their front so they could achieve a breakthrough and get into the German rear. The mastermind of this operation was known as The Butcher who was the leader of the OGPU. The name came from the civil war in Russia when he used a butcher shop as his torture chamber to get information out of captured White Russians. He was a brutal man, and he didn’t care about the cost in blood. He only care about results.


That was why the OGPU had five men and a woman along the route that was being used by the convoy taking Lettow-Vorbeck to Noordeinde Palace. They were only armed with pistols as the Dutch Office wasn’t as well funded or staffed as the Swiss, German, French, and Italian Offices and didn’t have the weapon arsenals to draw on as they did. They however had an ace up their sleeve and today was the first time they were using it. They had a 1931 AWE Sedan on the path of the convoy. Only in this sedan they had 125 kilos of ANFO in it. During the interwar years the OGPU had figured out how to turn ANFO into a cheap bomb for its overseas agents to be used in assassination efforts. However before today the OGPU had never found a target that demanded the use of ANFO.


Just as the convoy near the turn they needed to make the trip to Noordeinde Palace one of the OGPU agents pulled the timer on the massive bomb and on the door and started to walk away from the sedan at a brisk pace. He only had about 20 seconds to get away from that bomb before it when off. If they had tried the OGPU team couldn’t had timed it better if they had tried. The bomb when off just after Lettow-Vorbeck and his limo had passed the sedan putting the full force of the blast into the modified armored car carrying the heavily armed Koninklijke Marechaussee troops killing or seriously wounding all of them. They also killed a number of nearby bystanders who got caught up in the massive blast.


With the ears of everyone still ringing the OGPU officers all pulled out their pistols and open fire. With the rear motorcycle guards to wounded and stun to act the OGPU officers aimed for the forward motorcycle guards and the crippled limo that held Lettow-Vorbeck and some of his staff. With the Germans being under fire and behind the armored car that was now dead, the driver of the limo holding Lettow-Vorbeck threw his limo into reserve in an effort to get away. He only made it about 40 or 50 meters before the limo finally died but only after he ran over two Dutch civilians killing one of them. However it was more than enough and the OGPU officers after firing their magazines of their pistols dropped them and ran.

 

[cortz#9]

Dam the Ruskies are fighting dirty here. Hope Vorbeck is alright.

 

[Jim Smitty]

Any other thoughts on what the Russians are trying to do here?