A New Balance
- Thread starter Jim Smitty
- Start date
Craig
Banned
It should be too early in the war to be that desperate.
However, this also leads to the question of how soon will the British learn of this and just how desperate are THEY?
The Soviets aren't that desperate yet. If they were they would had used something very different than the Mustard-Lewisite mix then they used in the update. They just wanted to achieve a breakthrough and what did many breakthroughs in WWI ITL had, the use of chemical weapons. But they learned different lessons than the Germans who saw gas as a bigger pain than it was worth but worked out a new doctrine of using it in cased they were forced to use again. The Germans ITL would had been perfectly happy to fight a war with the Soviets without using gas. That is now setting on the window ledge. They are going to hit the Soviets back with their new doctrine of hitting logistical hubs and artillery parks with gas in this offensive then reframe from doing again to see if the Soviets want to try and play this game again. If so all bets are off.
As to Nerve Agents, the Germans have the ability to mass product both Tabin and Sarin. Soman is known of by the Germans and being looked at because it can be a binary agent. Which the Germans really want as it will be a hell of a lot safer than aerial loads of Tabin or Sarin flying around. But they haven't figured out how to mass product Soman yet. The only other nation with nerve agents is the United States of America. All their work on the field comes from Germany. But they doing their own R&D on it now. But really its all based on German Work right now for the US. This was a part of an agreement between Berlin and Washington. Everyone else through has when down a different path than Nerve Agents...
As to Nerve Agents, the Germans have the ability to mass product both Tabin and Sarin. Soman is known of by the Germans and being looked at because it can be a binary agent. Which the Germans really want as it will be a hell of a lot safer than aerial loads of Tabin or Sarin flying around. But they haven't figured out how to mass product Soman yet. The only other nation with nerve agents is the United States of America. All their work on the field comes from Germany. But they doing their own R&D on it now. But really its all based on German Work right now for the US. This was a part of an agreement between Berlin and Washington. Everyone else through has when down a different path than Nerve Agents...
Admiral Halsey
Banned
You know I wonder if VX gets discovered earlier. Also does TTL's Churchill have an operation vegetarian style plan up his sleeve? After all just because they don't have nerve agents doesn't mean they don't have something evil planned.
As to VX, no. That isn't happening ITL. The tech really isn't there yet, and will not be by the end of the war. Maybe in the early post war period, but not in the war itself.
As to Operation Vegetarian ITL
Admiral Halsey
Banned
Right a mystery..... Goddamnit Churchill is gonna cause at least one major city be deemed uninhabitable for at least a decade isn't he?
American Domestic Politicking
Washington DC
White House
May 15 1939
Leaders of both the Republican Party and the Democratic Party were currently setting in the Oval Office. Officially this meeting was about the course of the war. Unofficially this was major political convention between the two major parties of the United States in forming a unity government for the duration of the war. This was no easy task as the two parties widely differed on a number of issues. The best way to sum it up through was the Republican Party was currently big on government reform and the Democratic Party was currently big on social welfare reform. Well if you go back to the end of the Great War 20 years ago you could already start to see the shifts to these positions as the Republicans push through major civil rights law that brought the people of color of the American nation into equal standing with the White folks of the nation. But positions changed and everyone knew that.
The goal of this meeting was more for the two sides to work together on forming this unity government with who was getting what slot and what kind of laws that would be push during it and in the aftermath which ones would the other side allowed to pass without too much flak once normal politics returned to the lay of the land. Outside having Olsen stay on for a third term and having the senior senator from South Carolina Justin Washington join the ticket as the vice president very few positions were known at the moment. They needed to figure that out before they could get down to some of the nuts and bolt issues they were facing.
One the tops being brought up was that of gun control. The Democratic Party took a crack at it in 1934. Only it was shot down by the Supreme Court in the United States v. Nicks in 1936. The National Firearms Act of 1934 had been designed to make it illegal to own saw off shotgun and taxed machine guns even through there was no plans to issue the tax stamps under the law. It was United States v. Nicks that struck the bulk of the law down when the Supreme Court overturned the ruling of the District Court of Eastern Missouri and stated that the National Firearms Act of 1934 failed to meet Constitutional Mustard. This was one of the few topics that there was agreement on in both parties that something needed to be done but differed on how to go about it.
One of the other major social reform issues that the at least the Democratic Party wanted to see happen was an old age pension for the citizens of the US. Olsen one a major victory on one of the planks of the Democratic Party in 1933 when he passed the Social Medicine Act of 1933. This created a single player system of health care for everyone in the nation. It further created a system of getting promising youths into medical school if they couldn’t afford to pay for it. It was a truly sweeping act that unlike the later National Firearms Act of 1934 held up to the test of the Supreme Court. But Olsen and others also wanted to see an old age pension formed. They had tried in 37 with the Social Security Act of 37 but they failed to get the votes in the house and it had died. Olsen was pushing for this be the major law that the Republicans either came in and worked on or dropped their objections to and allowed it to become law.
For the Republicans the thing they really wanted would take an amendment to the constitution to see it become the law of the land. They wanted to bring about an end to gerrymandering. Even through both parties used it there currently was a growing push within the Republican Party to end this and go back to one person one vote. There was also the growing question of how large should the House of Representatives should be. The House currently sat at a total of 460 seats with more territories set to enter the Union within the next 20 to 30 years. Some within the Republican Party saw this as a chance to kill two birds with one stone, or one amendment to the constitution. The Democratics agreed that some capped needed to be set about the number of seats in the House of Representatives but weren’t that big on ending gerrymandering.
Another issue were both parties had common ground was that of campaign finance reform. Both parties wanted to make it where no foreign powers could play in domestic American politics again like the British had tried to play in the 1916 election that brought the US into the Great War. Both parties had also tried to do it but had failed to get it up to Constitutional Mustard each time. The Supreme Court had gutted the bulk of the three efforts by both sides at campaign finance reform. Some small reforms had survived the gutting by the Supreme Court but it was more like spitting in the wind without the stuff that had been ruled unconstitutional by the supreme court. The Democratics were starting to think it would take an amendment to the constitution to get it to stick. The Republicans through didn’t want to go with an amendment as that would kill their chances of getting an amendment killing gerrymandering. They would take it through if it came to that.
Then there were two other issues that really didn’t have positions within either party yet. This was because both issues had only been brought to the fore front of the political mind because of the war itself. The first was what territorial gains would the United States make after the war ended? Sure the US had its eye on some territorial gains prior to the war, but it never expected a war like this. The war was reshaping the territorial aims of the nation itself and at the moment there was no clear answer on what the US wanted after this war was over. Further there was the treatment of veterans in the aftermath of this war. No one wanted a repeat of the Bonus Army riot of 31. The question was how to make sure the flood of veterans returning from the war wouldn’t cause another depression as there was more workers than jobs.
Progress was being made but it was by no means quick nor easy.
White House
May 15 1939
Leaders of both the Republican Party and the Democratic Party were currently setting in the Oval Office. Officially this meeting was about the course of the war. Unofficially this was major political convention between the two major parties of the United States in forming a unity government for the duration of the war. This was no easy task as the two parties widely differed on a number of issues. The best way to sum it up through was the Republican Party was currently big on government reform and the Democratic Party was currently big on social welfare reform. Well if you go back to the end of the Great War 20 years ago you could already start to see the shifts to these positions as the Republicans push through major civil rights law that brought the people of color of the American nation into equal standing with the White folks of the nation. But positions changed and everyone knew that.
The goal of this meeting was more for the two sides to work together on forming this unity government with who was getting what slot and what kind of laws that would be push during it and in the aftermath which ones would the other side allowed to pass without too much flak once normal politics returned to the lay of the land. Outside having Olsen stay on for a third term and having the senior senator from South Carolina Justin Washington join the ticket as the vice president very few positions were known at the moment. They needed to figure that out before they could get down to some of the nuts and bolt issues they were facing.
One the tops being brought up was that of gun control. The Democratic Party took a crack at it in 1934. Only it was shot down by the Supreme Court in the United States v. Nicks in 1936. The National Firearms Act of 1934 had been designed to make it illegal to own saw off shotgun and taxed machine guns even through there was no plans to issue the tax stamps under the law. It was United States v. Nicks that struck the bulk of the law down when the Supreme Court overturned the ruling of the District Court of Eastern Missouri and stated that the National Firearms Act of 1934 failed to meet Constitutional Mustard. This was one of the few topics that there was agreement on in both parties that something needed to be done but differed on how to go about it.
One of the other major social reform issues that the at least the Democratic Party wanted to see happen was an old age pension for the citizens of the US. Olsen one a major victory on one of the planks of the Democratic Party in 1933 when he passed the Social Medicine Act of 1933. This created a single player system of health care for everyone in the nation. It further created a system of getting promising youths into medical school if they couldn’t afford to pay for it. It was a truly sweeping act that unlike the later National Firearms Act of 1934 held up to the test of the Supreme Court. But Olsen and others also wanted to see an old age pension formed. They had tried in 37 with the Social Security Act of 37 but they failed to get the votes in the house and it had died. Olsen was pushing for this be the major law that the Republicans either came in and worked on or dropped their objections to and allowed it to become law.
For the Republicans the thing they really wanted would take an amendment to the constitution to see it become the law of the land. They wanted to bring about an end to gerrymandering. Even through both parties used it there currently was a growing push within the Republican Party to end this and go back to one person one vote. There was also the growing question of how large should the House of Representatives should be. The House currently sat at a total of 460 seats with more territories set to enter the Union within the next 20 to 30 years. Some within the Republican Party saw this as a chance to kill two birds with one stone, or one amendment to the constitution. The Democratics agreed that some capped needed to be set about the number of seats in the House of Representatives but weren’t that big on ending gerrymandering.
Another issue were both parties had common ground was that of campaign finance reform. Both parties wanted to make it where no foreign powers could play in domestic American politics again like the British had tried to play in the 1916 election that brought the US into the Great War. Both parties had also tried to do it but had failed to get it up to Constitutional Mustard each time. The Supreme Court had gutted the bulk of the three efforts by both sides at campaign finance reform. Some small reforms had survived the gutting by the Supreme Court but it was more like spitting in the wind without the stuff that had been ruled unconstitutional by the supreme court. The Democratics were starting to think it would take an amendment to the constitution to get it to stick. The Republicans through didn’t want to go with an amendment as that would kill their chances of getting an amendment killing gerrymandering. They would take it through if it came to that.
Then there were two other issues that really didn’t have positions within either party yet. This was because both issues had only been brought to the fore front of the political mind because of the war itself. The first was what territorial gains would the United States make after the war ended? Sure the US had its eye on some territorial gains prior to the war, but it never expected a war like this. The war was reshaping the territorial aims of the nation itself and at the moment there was no clear answer on what the US wanted after this war was over. Further there was the treatment of veterans in the aftermath of this war. No one wanted a repeat of the Bonus Army riot of 31. The question was how to make sure the flood of veterans returning from the war wouldn’t cause another depression as there was more workers than jobs.
Progress was being made but it was by no means quick nor easy.
incredibly stupid or totally insane if he does, the Germans can strike back to easily. Best thing they could do is arrange to send a message thru a neutral party "Hey the Russians have used gas, we could retaliate with our stuff but we choose not to do so at this time" "Next time all bets are off"
I wonder if a alternate Manhattan project is going on. Also it would be cool if the Germans have a Von Braun Archetype that gets a rocket program going even better than OTL and use it to pummel the Soviets and British.
Its what they are going to do. They are going to be passing these notes through Central American nations, as the relations with the Dutch are strained.
Ah..
My dyslexic strikes again.
Admiral Halsey
Banned
Given the current world situation domestic affairs will have to take a black seat to internal for a time. Will be interesting to see postwar how things go.
It's hard to believe the USA would want to pass gun control during a massive global war.
I believe it was Admiral Yokohama, Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy who warned the hotheads in the rest of the military that in America there was "a gun behind every blade of grass".
Others knew of this, of course, and militarily, along with great oceans on both coasts, gave America a huge advantage from ever facing a invasion.
The gun control of the 1930's had most to do with alcohol prohibition and the gang warfare it caused.
The riots in the streets, the militarization of the police (there are also far,far more police at every level of the government today), use of illegal drugs, and crazy school shootings had not come yet until many more years. Also, believe it or not, some of the earliest gun laws in the US were Jim Crow laws passed to prevent black people from ever win owning guns.
With no prohibition and less racism in your time line, there would be a much less desire to pass laws to limit them.