Battle of Denmark Straits Pt V
HMS Neptune
North Atlantic
February 7 1939


Commodore Sir John Walker was not having a good day. He had assumed command of the Royal Navy’s Carrier Flotilla that was covering the landings on Iceland and Greenland a few hours ago. At the start of the day he had been the senior operation officer within the flotilla. But the bulk of the senior staff had brought the farm when the HMS Vindictive was attack earlier today. Hell you could see the burns on Walker’s hand and the scorch marks on his face. He had been lucky to get out of the CIC on the Vindictive when he did as he was the only one to make it out there alive. He had moved his flag to the Neptune, the only carrier that was still operational after that attack by the Yankees.


The Yankees hit the Carrier Flotilla hard. The Vindictive and Superb had both been sunk by the earlier attack. The Indomitable could only make five knots at the moment and was still listing 7 degrees to port. The Centurion was better off as she could still make 12 knots before the boilers would bust. She also had a slight list of 2 degrees to starboard. But the fire on her had gutted the hanger below the decks killing countless support personal for her air wing. But there was no way for her to perform flight operations. Not that were that many planes left for flight operations. His air wing was now limited to 43 Griffon Fighters and 11 Amberjack Torpedo Bombers. The rest had either been shot down, damaged and forced to ditch, or in the case of about 23 Amberjacks pushed over the side to allow for flight operations on the Neptune to keep going for the rest of the day.


A major problem for the Neptune was she had been rated for 60 aircraft. That had been when she was commissioned through. With the growth of aircraft since then now she could only handle 54 aircraft. Even through with the poor performance of the Griffon against the Yankees he had decided they stood a better chance against the Yankees instead of the Amberjacks so he had them push them over the side to allow him to keep the remaining Griffons that he had. He was being forced to recreate squadrons after the thrashing they took at the hands of the Yankees today.


Currently he had ordered the Carrier Flotilla to retire back east to Belfast. Both the Indomitable and the Centurion were going to need major yard time to get them back into the fight. Never mind the fact the whole of the Fleet Air Arm had been badly damaged in under 10 days of heavy fighting with the Yankees. The Fleet Air Arm was going to have to rebuilt from the ground up basically at this point. But Walker wasn’t about to tempt fate with only one carrier able to perform flight operations against three Yankee Carriers that his remaining air crews were reporting that were still operational. A pair of light carriers had already been sortie from Belfast to help pick up the slack from the gutted air wing of the Carrier Flotilla.


Flight operations had just ended for the day. It was another 10 minutes before the sun set and he believed that the Yankees wouldn’t be crazy enough to try a strike this late in the day. Then again Walker had never fought the Yankees before today either. He had sent the Great War fighting the Krauts in the North Sea and Channel with his biplanes. He had even been awarded the DSO for his part in the strike on Dunkirk late in 1917. He however didn’t know the Americans. As he was making his way to the CIC to work on getting the remaining carriers home when the general quarter siren started to ring throughout the ship. At that he started running back to the bridge of the ship.


Once there the only words that could come out of Walker’s mouth were, “Mother of God.” He could see at least four hundred Yankee aircraft coming down on his flotilla. Walker was just totally shocked by this move. The sun was about to set and the Yankees just coming down on him without any of his Griffons up in the air to challenge them. They would get a clean shot at the Neptune and the rest of his carriers and only being slowed by the Triple-A being fired by his ships. It was going to be a bloodbath and he knew it.


The captain of the Neptune yelled out, “Hard to port!” As saw a squadron of torpedo bombers was making their way to the Neptune. Only there was dive bombers already dropping on the Neptune. One thousand pounder armor piecing bombs started falling around the Neptune. Then one bomb hit center on the flight deck. It cut through the armor on the flight deck and when off in the hanger below the flight deck. It destroyed 31 aircraft that had been below the decks and started countless fires. This wasn’t counting the dozens of dead aircraft machines, ordnance, and fuel handers taken out by the blast. Then another 1,000 pound bomb dropped on the flight deck near one of the twin 4.5 inch gun turrets. The bomb when deeper than the first one and hit the magazine armor that was guarding the 4.5inch rounds just before it when off causing a massive explosion.


As the explosion from this second bomb hit rocked the ship the first of the torpedoes fired at the ship hit. This was a hit near the prop shafts that popped the seal on the third and four shafts allowing the cold water of the North Atlantic into the ship. Not even seconds later a second and third torpedo hit the Neptune and their hits were so close together that many on the Neptune thought it was one massive torpedo hit instead of two hits. Together with the pop shafts the Neptune was listing heavily to starboard as the ice water of the North Atlantic flood into the ship. She was slowing quickly as she had been working up to her flank speed of 31 knots when the attack started, but now she was dropping speed quickly. Further her boilers were starting to be shut down as the steam pipes were cracked. She was doing now 11 knots and slowing.


By the time the last American aircraft dropped its ordnance, the British Carrier Flotilla had been gutted with not one carrier still afloat come morning on the 8th.
 
Well there goes a major part of the British's Atlantic Fleet power gone.
That pretty much is the Atlantic Fleet gone. Even with what they sunk of the USN so far the USN plus the Kaiserliche Marine is enough to handle whats left. BTW Smitty what did the British get in their sneak attack on the German ports?
 
Dam good update Jim. IMO this is a worst naval disaster than Midway, at least the waters around midway were warm.
 
That pretty much is the Atlantic Fleet gone. Even with what they sunk of the USN so far the USN plus the Kaiserliche Marine is enough to handle whats left. BTW Smitty what did the British get in their sneak attack on the German ports?
Umm no...


Aircraft Carrier

Eagle Class Aircraft Carriers (Ex-Brazilian Light Battlecruisers)

24,200 tons displacement, oil fired boilers, turbine driven, 30 knots, 16 x 4.7 AA Guns in Single Mounts, 48 Aircraft

HMS Eagle
HMS Furious


Glorious Class Aircraft Carriers, (Ex-ocean liner)

14,450 tons displacement, coal-fired boilers, turbine driven, 21 knots, 4 x 4 inch AA Guns, 18 Aircraft

HMS Glorious, Training Ship


Dreadnought Class Aircraft Carriers

42,100 tons displacement, oil-fired boilers, turbine driven, 30 knots, 4 x 7.5/45s in twin turrets, 10 x 4.7 inch AA Guns in Single Mounts, 85 Aircraft

HMS Dreadnought
HMS Formidable


Indomitable Class Aircraft Carriers

24,500 tons displacement, oil-fired boilers, turbine driven, 31 knots, 18 x 4.5/45s in twin turrets, 16 x 2 pdr AA Cannons (Quad Mount), 72 Aircraft

HMS Indomitable, sunk Denmark Straits
HMS Vindictive, sunk Denmark Straits
HMS Centurion, sunk Denmark Straits


Neptune Class Aircraft Carriers

25,500 tons displacement, oil-fired boilers, turbine driven, 31 knots, 20 x 4.5/45s in twin turrets, 16 x 2 pdr AA Cannons (Quad Mount), 60 Aircraft

HMS Neptune, sunk Denmark Straits
HMS St. Vincent
HMS Superb, sunk Denmark Straits


Vanguard Class Aircraft Carriers

25,900 tons displacement, oil-fired boilers, turbine driven, 31 knots, 16 x 4.5/45s in twin turrets, 16 x 2 pdr AA Cannons (Quad Mount), 68 Aircraft

HMS Vanguard
HMS Bellerophon
HMS Orion


Monarch Class Aircraft Carriers

26,500 tons displacement, oil fired boilers, 30 knots, 16 x 4.5/45s in twin turrets, 16 x 2 pdr AA Cannons, 72 Aircraft

Monarch, Fitting Out
Audacious, Slip Way


Light Aircraft Carriers

Argus Class Light Aircraft Carriers

10,850 tons displacement, oil fired boilers, 25 knots, 6 x 5.5/50s in single mounts, 4 x 4 inch AA Guns in single mounts, 20 Aircraft

HMS Argus


Hermes Class Light Aircraft Carriers (Ex-Heavy Cruisers)

10,200 tons displacement, oil fired boilers, 30 knots, 8 x 3 inch 20 cwt AA Guns, 12 Aircraft

HMS Hermes
HMS Unicorn
HMS Perseus


Pioneer Class Light Aircraft Carriers

11,100 tons displacement, oil fired boilers, 28 knots, 6 x 3 inch 20 cwt AA Guns, 24 Aircraft

HMS Pioneer
HMS Theseus


Archer (A) Class Light Aircraft Carrier

11,500 tons displacement, oil fired boilers, 30 knots, 16 x 2 pdr AA Cannons (Quad Mount), 24 Aircraft

Archer, Slip Way
Ajax, Laid Down
Order for three more pending
That's the list of British Carriers in 1937. I put notes on which ones have been sunk. They still have the carriers, the air groups through are in much rougher shape as their aircraft couldn't take the Americans on equal terms. Further with the US fielding VT shells even in limited numbers have really ate into the British FFA. They can regroup through.

As to the Germans, in due time. I hinted at something in this lastest string of updates and how badly the Germans got hurt will be covered once I start that battle.
 
So six light carriers and six modern carriers(Eagle class is old and obsolete at this point it seems) VS the USN and Kaiserliche Marine is not enough. Especially since the still have to protect the rest of the Empire as well. They can regroup yes but that will take time, something that is very much against the British especially given the foes the are facing. I stand by my statement the British Atlantic fleet is done.
 
Ballsy move pays off and now the British are in some deep shit. As for their landings on Iceland and Greenland, how screwed are the troops that made it ashore?
 

Grimbald

Monthly Donor
I don't see all roses for the USA. Night landings on aircraft carriers in this age are difficult at best and "lightening them up" invites sub attacks.
The battle is won but not over.
 
The USA has lost one fleet carrier to five of the British. The British air wings have suffered 100% loss of aircraft, and at least 50% of trained aircrew, possibly more with at least some of the survivors wounded and out of the battle for some time to come. Losses amongst the skilled ground crew of the FAA units are even worse. US aircraft losses have been light so far, likewise aircrew losses. Even if a lot of aircraft have to ditch coming back in the dark, those losses can be made up easily and most of the ditching aircrew rescued. Losses of support personnel are minimal. US naval aircraft, fighter, dive bomber, and torpedo have all shown themselves to be better than their RN counterparts, especially the fighters. The British forces on Greenland and Iceland are going to be a total write-off. At the end of round one the British have pissed off the USA by the surprise attacks without a DoW, lost half of their fleet carriers and much of their naval aviation, and whatever forces were used to take Iceland and Greenland. The fight is not over but any hope of the UK playing offense against the USA is pretty much gone.

IMHO the British can try a submarine offensive against the USA, but the USA can institute convoys and air cover along the East and Gulf Coasts and the British subs are operating at the far end and are facing air patrols from Iceland, Greenland, and Bermuda just to get to those operational areas. Good luck. They may have some success against convoys to Iceland, but even the best the British can do can only be so effective as the Us vulnerability is small.

Question - The Faroes were taken by the UK? Were they US owned?
 
OK..is the UK now at war with Denmark or have the Danes just submitted diplomatic protests. I assume there was little or no bloodshed in this.
 

Craig

Banned
... but the USA can institute convoys and air cover along the East and Gulf Coasts and the British subs are operating at the far end and are facing air patrols from Iceland, Greenland, and Bermuda just to get to those operational areas. Good luck. They may have some success against convoys to Iceland, but even the best the British can do can only be so effective as the Us vulnerability is small.

Yes, the US may need to institute convoys to supply the Second Reich. BUT the British might wish they had a source of food other than what can be grown locally. I suspect starving out the Brits will be a popular tactic, especially given that they pulled off a sneak attack without the sacrosanct DoW.
 
Lead Follow or Get Out of the Way
Copenhagen
Christiansborg Palace
February 8th 1939


German Foreign Minister Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck was currently waiting for Danish Prime Minister Hagen Pontus. The British started the Faroe Crisis with the Danish Government both the British and German governments had been coming and going from meetings with the Danish Government. With Lettow-Vorbeck knew this would be his last meeting with the Danish. He and the rest of the government was getting tired of this back and fore of the Danish trying to get the best possible deal from both sides and stay out of the war. Germany didn’t have the time for this non-sense at the moment.


The British have started this whole crisis four days ago when they invaded the Faroe Islands. They gave no reason for them putting a regiment of infantry on the islands. They just did it. Then again, the British really just didn’t seem to give two shits about international norms as they when about pissing everyone off right now. The Faroe Islands sat in a strategic location that they wanted to control. If anyone who was hostile with the British held those islands they could use them as a springboard to invade Scotland. Even some early American planning for a 1920 invasion of Scotland during the Great War called for seizing the Faroe Islands to do as such. But that long range planning never got anywhere as the war ended before those plans ever when anywhere beyond the early stages of planning the offensive. But it seemed that the British weren’t taking any chances and were occupying them now before anyone could really challenge them for control of those islands.


As Lettow-Vorbeck was pondering what to do with the Hungarians as what they wanted was insane the door opened and in walked in Prime Minister Pontus. You could see the bags under the eyes of both men as they had been working insane hours ever since this damn world started. Then again the whole world basically decided to have a war all at once with only the minor nations really left up to their own devices at the moment. The most powerful nation not currently at war was the Netherlands. PM Pontus spoke German fluently so he spoke. “Minister, I understand you have a message for me?”


It was true. Lettow-Vorbeck had been flying back and for between Copenhagen and Berlin a lot and had just returned to Copenhagen only a few hours ago. “Yes mister Prime Minister I do. It’s simple really. Either you are with us or against us.”


The color drained from PM Pontus’ face. “What do you mean Minister?”


“Mister Prime Minister, with the British invasion of the Faroe Islands have proven you are incapable of defending your nation. With the British acting with total disregard for international law, you will either declare war on the British and allow us to station army and Luftwaffe troops on your soil to help defend your nation or we will invade and do it anyways.”


Pontus knew the Danish military didn’t stand a chance in hell of stopping the Germans. It was unfunded and had been for more than two decades now. The Rigsdagen understood full well they would never even build a military that could really defend Denmark from Germany so they never even tried. The army had only two understrength divisions that were short on their TO&E. The navy had only a few modern 900 ton destroyers, but the rest of it was badly outdated. Even those destroyers had been designed as more coast guard ships than a true fighting destroyer. The Air Corp was no better with only a few modern aircraft but the large part of it was outdated by a large amount.


Yet Lettow-Vorbeck when on. “If you become our allies, we will help you with rebuilding your military so you could defend your nation.” It was the true one more, well to some degree. The Germans knew how much of a mess the Danish military was. They wanted them to shoulder some of the load but by no means would they hand over the latest and greatest to the Danes. They didn’t trust them that much. But by reequipping the Danish military would create some goodwill and ease logistics. “Further at the peace table there would be some minor indemnities for your nation. Along with that no Danish units would have to leave Danish territory save for the navy as they do have to sortie every so often.”



“And if we refuse?” Pontus really didn’t want to refuse but he had to know as he had to speak to his cabinet first before he could give an answer. His political position in Denmark wasn’t the greatest and if one of the different parties that made up his government withdrew support it would throw his nation into madness at this critical point in its history.


“We invade and do what we want anyways. At the end of the war there would be territorial losses and indemnities assigned to your nation.” Lettow-Vorbeck knew that both his nation and the US would like to have the Faroe Islands. But the long term territorial goals were still being felt out at the moment in Germany, and Lettow-Vorbeck figured the US as well. He also knew the Swedish would very much like to annex Bornholm. This notwithstanding the Treaty of Copenhagen of 1660, the Swedish would be more than happy to have it.


Sweat started to come off Pontus’ face. “How long before we have to give you an answer?”


“24 hours.”
 

Cryostorm

Donor
The Danes really were foolish to think they could stay neutral in this war when their territory, the Faroe Islands, the Sound, and the Jutland Peninsula, is incredibly significant is a strategic sense.
 
that happens when you have a power at par and you know that if she wants to enter your country you can not do anything but look.
 

Cryostorm

Donor
that happens when you have a power at par and you know that if she wants to enter your country you can not do anything but look.
True, but if that is the case then I would try to work with said power in order to gain from a bad situation. Instead they tried to play both sides and are now liable to be crushed when the two collide.
 
Well, they tried to play out the string, but it really hasn't hurt them. Perhaps now the smart thing to do would be to agree with the Germans, and play out publicly a while longer while the Germans get ready to move in immediately if they have not already. Give the British 24 hours to evacuate the Faroes "or else", and at 24 hours and one minute declare war, at 24 hours and 2 minutes the first German planes land at airfields ready to defend and troops cross the borders along with freight cars of equipment to build the Danish Army. Right now the Danes are pretty safe in that with the RN being swatted in the Denmark Straits, Britain really does not have assets to go at Denmark when the Danes deliver their ultimatum. Maybe an air raid, maybe not, maybe a sub shelling some coastal facility maybe not.

Had the British NOT occupied the Faroes, Denmark might have had a shot at neutrality. Before the RN took such a licking, the argument could be made that with the RN having the upper hand in the area of the Faroes, the US could not take them by coup de main, but if threatened the British could move in earlier. Furthermore had the British seizure of Iceland worked, and hopefully also Greenland, the Faroes would now be covered and not an issue. IMHO the smart move for the British would have been to prepare to take the Faroes, but not do it until necessary - either by failure to take Iceland or Denmark declaring war. I doubt the Germans would have pushed Denmark to join in or be occupied so quickly had the Faroes not been taken. Just another example of how here, Britain has made more trouble for itself than necessary.
 
General Notice

Due to Hurricane Irma's possible path and given the fact I work grocery retail and add on the fact I need to get sandbags, updates may become few and far between starting in the next few days. If Irma hits Tampa, lord I hope not, I will be playing by ear when updates will start up again. But after watching what happened in Texas with Harvey, everyone here is going fuck no that is not happening here.
 

Cryostorm

Donor
Stay safe, depending on what comes out in the next day or so Charleston, SC will likely start doing the same. At least I know by now my particular spot is not flood prone.
 
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