A New Balance
- Thread starter Jim Smitty
- Start date
Admiral Halsey
Banned
I will say that the German A-H border has to have been a nightmare to plan to defend on both sides. Plus if things stayed te course on how economic development was going I A-H take out Bohemia and you've taken out most of the industry and lost Skoda.
Strike Prep
HMS Dreadnought
North Atlantic
January 24 1939
The HMS Dreadnought had been on a standard patrol out in the Atlantic when all hell had broken lose in South America and Europe. They had only left Belfast five days ago for what was to be another standard mission into the North Atlantic waters. In a game played since the mid 1920s when the idea of aircraft carrier started to take off both in USN and RN. Pilots would stage massive dog fights over the North Atlantic if the two sides even found each other. Indeed, there were sometimes these unofficial dog fights had almost started real shooting as hot shot pilots had pushed too hard and had caused mid-air collisions. Yet that didn’t happen this time of year. The water was too cold if any pilot had to ditch and live by the time search and rescue reached them. No, the winter months for both the RN and USN was time for standard training missions and allow pilots to perform their needed traps on carrier decks.
Even through HMS Dreadnought was one of the oldest fleet flat tops in the Royal Navy inventory it still held one of the largest air wings. This was because no other fleet flat top came to the size of HMS Dreadnought. She and her sister ship HMS Formidable had been laid down as part of the Dreadnought Class Battlecruisers that were the follow-ons to the Admiral Class of Battlecruisers. Yet the Treaty of Bern ended their service life before they were even launched. Under the terms of the treaty through two of the Dreadnoughts out of the four had been laid down by that point could be turned into aircraft carriers. Dreadnought and the Formidable were selected for this. Yet with the Royal Navy liking smaller fleet carriers than most, this left the Dreadnought class as the largest fleet flat tops in service. Even the new London Class was still going to be 10,000 tons lighter in displacement than the Dreadnought Class and 20 feet shorter in length.
Captain John Walker the ship’s commanding officer was currently in flag country. His ship together with the Formidable operated as the 1st Carrier Squadron of the Atlantic Fleet. Rear Admiral Jeffery Rodgers had called him and the Captain of the Formidable for an important meeting. Rodgers didn’t know what this meeting was about. But it was a rare even to pull the captain of the Formidable to the flagship of the squadron. But for this meeting to be happening this early in the morning both officers knew it had to be important.
“Gentlemen,” Admiral Rodgers started, “We are to head south at best possible speed and we are going to link up with the 2nd Light Carrier Squadron about 100 miles west of the Azores.” That got both captains to raise an eye brow. The 2nd Light Carrier Squadron was made up all three Hermes Class Light Aircraft Carriers and were based out of the Gibraltar and were part of a floating force that support the Atlantic or Mediterranean Fleets as needed. They were the second effort at a light aircraft carrier by the RN from the keel up. Because of errors in their design that the RN hadn’t figured out they had a limited air wing that currently only had 10 aircraft per ship. Together with the 78 aircraft that both the Dreadnought and Formidable carry gave this newly formed task forced 186 aircraft. It was an impressable amount of naval airpower in one unit for the Royal Navy.
“From there we head south.” At that he got up and walked over to the map that was hanging up on the bulkhead. He pointed to their target. “We have to be in position to strike by the 29th.” Both captains were shocked by this. The Admiral saw this, “Yes we are going to war gentlemen and against the Americans. This war is starting on the 29th.”
In planning for a war with the United States, the British figured out they could only win in a quick war, a war that dragged out played to the strengths of the United States. They had to strike hard and fast and forced the US to focus elsewhere. With the US coming out with its alliance with Germany they had no choice but to try and roll the hard six. As they were about to be at war with Germany again because Austria-Hungary did something stupid. Yet now they were trying to roll the hard six.
Admiral Rodgers kept going. “Once we cripple American forces there, we will sail to Gibraltar to refuel and arm. Then we will sail north to support landings against Iceland.”
Captain Walker spoke, “What about the communist?”
The British didn’t have the best of relations with the communist. The Soviet Spanish were worse than most because they still claimed Gibraltar as their own land. This is not withstanding the fact Gibraltar had been in British hands since the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713. Admiral Rodgers smiled, “The communist are on our side in this.”
North Atlantic
January 24 1939
The HMS Dreadnought had been on a standard patrol out in the Atlantic when all hell had broken lose in South America and Europe. They had only left Belfast five days ago for what was to be another standard mission into the North Atlantic waters. In a game played since the mid 1920s when the idea of aircraft carrier started to take off both in USN and RN. Pilots would stage massive dog fights over the North Atlantic if the two sides even found each other. Indeed, there were sometimes these unofficial dog fights had almost started real shooting as hot shot pilots had pushed too hard and had caused mid-air collisions. Yet that didn’t happen this time of year. The water was too cold if any pilot had to ditch and live by the time search and rescue reached them. No, the winter months for both the RN and USN was time for standard training missions and allow pilots to perform their needed traps on carrier decks.
Even through HMS Dreadnought was one of the oldest fleet flat tops in the Royal Navy inventory it still held one of the largest air wings. This was because no other fleet flat top came to the size of HMS Dreadnought. She and her sister ship HMS Formidable had been laid down as part of the Dreadnought Class Battlecruisers that were the follow-ons to the Admiral Class of Battlecruisers. Yet the Treaty of Bern ended their service life before they were even launched. Under the terms of the treaty through two of the Dreadnoughts out of the four had been laid down by that point could be turned into aircraft carriers. Dreadnought and the Formidable were selected for this. Yet with the Royal Navy liking smaller fleet carriers than most, this left the Dreadnought class as the largest fleet flat tops in service. Even the new London Class was still going to be 10,000 tons lighter in displacement than the Dreadnought Class and 20 feet shorter in length.
Captain John Walker the ship’s commanding officer was currently in flag country. His ship together with the Formidable operated as the 1st Carrier Squadron of the Atlantic Fleet. Rear Admiral Jeffery Rodgers had called him and the Captain of the Formidable for an important meeting. Rodgers didn’t know what this meeting was about. But it was a rare even to pull the captain of the Formidable to the flagship of the squadron. But for this meeting to be happening this early in the morning both officers knew it had to be important.
“Gentlemen,” Admiral Rodgers started, “We are to head south at best possible speed and we are going to link up with the 2nd Light Carrier Squadron about 100 miles west of the Azores.” That got both captains to raise an eye brow. The 2nd Light Carrier Squadron was made up all three Hermes Class Light Aircraft Carriers and were based out of the Gibraltar and were part of a floating force that support the Atlantic or Mediterranean Fleets as needed. They were the second effort at a light aircraft carrier by the RN from the keel up. Because of errors in their design that the RN hadn’t figured out they had a limited air wing that currently only had 10 aircraft per ship. Together with the 78 aircraft that both the Dreadnought and Formidable carry gave this newly formed task forced 186 aircraft. It was an impressable amount of naval airpower in one unit for the Royal Navy.
“From there we head south.” At that he got up and walked over to the map that was hanging up on the bulkhead. He pointed to their target. “We have to be in position to strike by the 29th.” Both captains were shocked by this. The Admiral saw this, “Yes we are going to war gentlemen and against the Americans. This war is starting on the 29th.”
In planning for a war with the United States, the British figured out they could only win in a quick war, a war that dragged out played to the strengths of the United States. They had to strike hard and fast and forced the US to focus elsewhere. With the US coming out with its alliance with Germany they had no choice but to try and roll the hard six. As they were about to be at war with Germany again because Austria-Hungary did something stupid. Yet now they were trying to roll the hard six.
Admiral Rodgers kept going. “Once we cripple American forces there, we will sail to Gibraltar to refuel and arm. Then we will sail north to support landings against Iceland.”
Captain Walker spoke, “What about the communist?”
The British didn’t have the best of relations with the communist. The Soviet Spanish were worse than most because they still claimed Gibraltar as their own land. This is not withstanding the fact Gibraltar had been in British hands since the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713. Admiral Rodgers smiled, “The communist are on our side in this.”
I can only imagine where the British will attack. Maybe Cuba, Puerto Rico, somewhere else in the Caribbean, Florida or somewhere on the eastern seaboard where the Atlantic fleet is stationed.
Once you get to North America, there are a bounty of possibilities. Before you can reach those holdings of the United States you have to go through one fortress and staging point in the Atlantic...
Bermuda.
The biggest problem for A-H is manning the various industry and the armed forces, they will probably suffer the same population crisis that France get before WWII; they have lost a lot of men in the war and in the pacification of Serbia, plus the expulsion of the italians and Serbian not only caused a direct lowering of the population but greatly encouraged other minorities to leave till they can as they can be the next serbian or italians...for this reason Wien enacted the law forcing young people to remain in the nation till a certain period (and this will really help loyalty and morale, surely
).Worse both Italy and Romania know that this will be a war were no quarter will asked or given, surrender is not an option unless you desire the same fate of Serbia and the Hapsburg Empire it's not in a good strategic position as the only possible ally that can give him immediate help is the Kingdom of Greece that's itself surrounded by enemies and can knock out of the war easily.
Sure the URSS is officially an ally of the Axis but frankly i see Moscow ready itself for war...but perform more or less his version of the Phony war while A-H and co. bleed the allies and attack later but who will be the victim? Germany and co. or his officially allies (basically backstabbing them in exchange of easy conquest)
Admiral Halsey
Banned
With war imminent though will the US be caught flat footed. Also really Britain angering the US via a sneak attack? Because pissing them off worked so well in the first war.
Cryostorm
Donor
Don't forget America's pride and joy, the Canal, knock it out and you cut essentially cut both fleets off from each other, that or go for an 1812 redo.
True... that may very well be a better target as it will isolate the Pacific and Atlantic navies from reinforcing each other. I wonder if there are multiple strikes such as these moving into place.
I doubt they'll be flat footed. They've been expecting this war for years, and were themselves sending out ultimatums that if not answered would mean war. War that would knowingly bring both the Comintern and Axis in.
One thing about the British going after the American pride and joy in the form of the Panama Canal is the US is very touchy about capital ships anywhere near the canal that aren't their's. Further you aren't getting there in the time frame laid out in the update.
RamscoopRaider
Donor
Remember that Pearl Harbor had received a war warning order weeks before the attack, they were still caught flat footed. Here without an *Taranto, they are even more likely to be caught flat footed, nobody is going to expect something this audacious
This isn't weeks of warning though. This has been something the US expected for years. It's also a war with circumstances unlike our own in the regards to American involvement. There's no possibility of returning to isolationism in this timeline, as they're a major target for the revanchist and vengeance driven Britain. The front also won't be in far off seas alone and Eurasia alone. Fighting is going to engulf the Americas as Mexico surges northward and the various Communist and Fascist powers of South America strike at Brazil and Panama.
There's no slumbering giant of industry and military might because they've had to keep a watchful eye open. I'd say there's a good chance they get taken flat footed in this heavy strike against the Atlantic fleet, but I think they'll find their footing quicker than they did in the aftermath of OTL's Pearl Harbor.
.... Bermuda? *Radiates excitement*
Admiral Halsey
Banned
You know might the British be invading Bermuda? Just taking it out of US hands for even a couple of months will severely cut down US power projection into the Atlantic
RamscoopRaider
Donor
The US had been preparing to fight Japan for years OTL. They still got caught by surprise, nobody is going to think the British are ballsy enough to do what they are about to do IMO, and this crisis has not been going on near as long as the leadup to US entry into WWII, it takes time to pull out of peacetime mentalities. The UK, despite being at war, was caught just as much with its pants down as the US in OTL when Japan joined in, and the Italians, despite being at war, were still savaged at Taranto OTL
My point is they aren't in peace time mentality. Since WWI there's been tension, and war preparation began full on as soon as the naval treaties fell through. They'll be caught with their pants down by the British, but I doubt it'll be that lasting of an unpreparedness. The US took a long time to get into the war OTL, they'll be ready to get in as soon as the initial shock is over this time around.
That was my original thought, ya.
RamscoopRaider
Donor
I meant flat footed in a tactical/operational sense not a strategic or grand strategic. They know war is coming soon, but I think they believe they have more time than they do
I don't know how prepared the US is (only Smitty knows that) but I don't think they'll underestimate the British to the same level they did with Japanese. Racism clouded the US judgement IOTL but that shouldn't be the case with the British.
The US knows they have a top notch navy, probably the best in the world.
The US knows they have a top notch navy, probably the best in the world.
Getting Out If Possible
Franklin City, Franklin Territory (American China)
American Pacific Airlines Offices
January 25 1939
“I’m sorry sir, all out going seats for flights out of Franklin are already book.” American Pacific Airlines was the major player in the growing business of airline travel. Like many airliners they made the bulk of their money on air mail but long distance air passenger air travel was a growing business that was turning a profit now and have been for the past few years. As the name suggested American Pacific Airlines serviced the vast and far flung territories in the American Pacific. It’s home port was in San Francisco but it had a hub damn near everywhere in the American Pacific that was a buyable hub for them to operate from.
“Look I will give you a thousand dollars for a seat on the next clipper out of here.” The governor of the Franklin Territory had ordered the civilians to be on standby to be evacuated late yesterday along with calling out the territorial guard. The US had sent down a war warning message to all US military and civilian commands. Those territories in the line of likely Japanese offensive actions such as Franklin were prepping for a major civilian evacuation. Franklin had a major civilian population of just over 175,000 people living in its borders at the last census. With it being almost time for another census that number had surely grown since then.
The US had only started to seriously take a look at the need to have plans to evacuate American civilians last year as it was becoming increasingly clear on how the Japanese were treating civilians in occupied territories. If that was how they were treating Chinese civilians, there was little doubt in anyone’s mind how they would treat Americans in Franklin. Yet in the planning of this evacuation of the civilians the US believed they would have time from the signs of war warning to the start of the war itself. In the planning of the evacuation of Franklin, named Operation Alamo the US believed it would have two weeks time to get its people out of Franklin. Even then with the distances being involved meant that the ocean liners which were still the prime way of getting around had to be either quick or close by. But the planners of Operation Alamo doubted they could get all of the civilians out in time, even with a two week lead up to such an evacuation.
At the moment, the closest American flag passenger ship was the SS Mount Vernon. She was inbound but she was also on her schedule run. She could up to 950 passengers on a normal trip, and currently had 645 passengers on her as she was making her way to Franklin. She was to dock tonight, but her captain had decided to only take children and their mothers out as he refueled and resupply. The plan was for him to turn around and be back at sea by tomorrow morning. Two more passenger liners both of them 28 knoters were out bound from Pearl right now but it wouldn’t be for a few days before they reach Franklin.
Yet rich men were making an effort to get out of Franklin by any means possible. American Pacific was still operating its air traffic system, but it had cut off carrying people into Franklin yesterday. But it was planning on operating for as long as it could. But as the evacuation order came down the tickets for the next months’ worth of flights out of Franklin had been quickly brought up. The man manning the American Pacific desk spoke again, “Sir I’m sorry there is no amount of money that can get you on the next clipper or any clipper before March.”
“1,500 dollars! I must have that seat.”
The American Pacific guy raise an eye brow. “No.” At this point he just wanted to see how high this jack ass would go. His boss had already removed his ticket issuing equipment but he still had to stand at his desk till his shift was up. He was wondering if he could simply go home at this point.
“2,000 dollars!”
‘Its going to be a long shift.’ The American Pacific Employee thought.
American Pacific Airlines Offices
January 25 1939
“I’m sorry sir, all out going seats for flights out of Franklin are already book.” American Pacific Airlines was the major player in the growing business of airline travel. Like many airliners they made the bulk of their money on air mail but long distance air passenger air travel was a growing business that was turning a profit now and have been for the past few years. As the name suggested American Pacific Airlines serviced the vast and far flung territories in the American Pacific. It’s home port was in San Francisco but it had a hub damn near everywhere in the American Pacific that was a buyable hub for them to operate from.
“Look I will give you a thousand dollars for a seat on the next clipper out of here.” The governor of the Franklin Territory had ordered the civilians to be on standby to be evacuated late yesterday along with calling out the territorial guard. The US had sent down a war warning message to all US military and civilian commands. Those territories in the line of likely Japanese offensive actions such as Franklin were prepping for a major civilian evacuation. Franklin had a major civilian population of just over 175,000 people living in its borders at the last census. With it being almost time for another census that number had surely grown since then.
The US had only started to seriously take a look at the need to have plans to evacuate American civilians last year as it was becoming increasingly clear on how the Japanese were treating civilians in occupied territories. If that was how they were treating Chinese civilians, there was little doubt in anyone’s mind how they would treat Americans in Franklin. Yet in the planning of this evacuation of the civilians the US believed they would have time from the signs of war warning to the start of the war itself. In the planning of the evacuation of Franklin, named Operation Alamo the US believed it would have two weeks time to get its people out of Franklin. Even then with the distances being involved meant that the ocean liners which were still the prime way of getting around had to be either quick or close by. But the planners of Operation Alamo doubted they could get all of the civilians out in time, even with a two week lead up to such an evacuation.
At the moment, the closest American flag passenger ship was the SS Mount Vernon. She was inbound but she was also on her schedule run. She could up to 950 passengers on a normal trip, and currently had 645 passengers on her as she was making her way to Franklin. She was to dock tonight, but her captain had decided to only take children and their mothers out as he refueled and resupply. The plan was for him to turn around and be back at sea by tomorrow morning. Two more passenger liners both of them 28 knoters were out bound from Pearl right now but it wouldn’t be for a few days before they reach Franklin.
Yet rich men were making an effort to get out of Franklin by any means possible. American Pacific was still operating its air traffic system, but it had cut off carrying people into Franklin yesterday. But it was planning on operating for as long as it could. But as the evacuation order came down the tickets for the next months’ worth of flights out of Franklin had been quickly brought up. The man manning the American Pacific desk spoke again, “Sir I’m sorry there is no amount of money that can get you on the next clipper or any clipper before March.”
“1,500 dollars! I must have that seat.”
The American Pacific guy raise an eye brow. “No.” At this point he just wanted to see how high this jack ass would go. His boss had already removed his ticket issuing equipment but he still had to stand at his desk till his shift was up. He was wondering if he could simply go home at this point.
“2,000 dollars!”
‘Its going to be a long shift.’ The American Pacific Employee thought.