For Italy, honestly many in ITL are surprised that they didn't fight a civil war. It was that close. All it would taken was a single spark in 1919 or 1920 and it would happened. But unlike France that spark never happened. If Victor E III hadn't given up the crown in 1919 a civil war would happened no matter what. As to the surname, I used a random name gen.

Wow VE III making a good decision, frankly i will found more credible if a airplane full of people suddenly found itself in the past;)...well joking aside, surprise are always good and it's probable that what happened in France will have scared everyone 'forcing' to make a more rational move.
Oh regarding the name was just nitpicking; nothing of important...sorry if i even bothered you.

Finally, poor Serbia, they have get the worst fate of everyone involved, even the 'Rape of Serbia' will remain a very dark note in A-H history
 

Grimbald

Monthly Donor
Surprised the US did not buy German Samoa and take French Polynesia..would have created a nice size territory.
 
Surprised the US did not buy German Samoa and take French Polynesia..would have created a nice size territory.
The US already own all of Samoa via the Island War of 1894-85. Then it got the British claims to Samoa after the British told the US no to annexing Hawaii. So there the US and British swapped claims and called it a day but that mark the down fall of Anglo-American relations and ITL is listed as one of the causes of WWI. The US lost control to the Imperial Federation in WWI but got them back at the peace table. The US had no designs on French Polynesia nor Wallis and Futuna. Besides Germany wanted to regain territory in the Pacific. So they stripped the French of these island colonies and took them for themselves. This on top of getting all their pre-war colonies back plus another in China via the French and even more in Africa.

Besides the US could had forced Germany to sell those Pacific Islands colonies to them but at the cost of destroying US-German relations. Granted American-German relations weren't the greatest pre-war, the US had no want to destroy them which such a move would have done.
 
Wow VE III making a good decision, frankly i will found more credible if a airplane full of people suddenly found itself in the past;)...well joking aside, surprise are always good and it's probable that what happened in France will have scared everyone 'forcing' to make a more rational move.
Oh regarding the name was just nitpicking; nothing of important...sorry if i even bothered you.

Finally, poor Serbia, they have get the worst fate of everyone involved, even the 'Rape of Serbia' will remain a very dark note in A-H history
Well VE III had 40 plus years of butterflies ITL to work with.

Food for thought a jet airliner from this TL but landing in OTL 1939 aka UA 817 but from this TL. But nah, I already have a rough draft in the works for my next TL.
 

Cryostorm

Donor
Could you make a map of the current borders, especially in the Pacific and Africa, its hard to place what and where each nation gained.
 
Could you make a map of the current borders, especially in the Pacific and Africa, its hard to place what and where each nation gained.
The best I can do at the moment is does shit paint maps with google screen shots to give a general idea where the front is. As to a colorized map? I might have to look around for someone to do this unless someone tells me how to use paint to make a colorized map.
 
The best I can do at the moment is does shit paint maps with google screen shots to give a general idea where the front is. As to a colorized map? I might have to look around for someone to do this unless someone tells me how to use paint to make a colorized map.

Sure I will be glad to take a crack at this. I did some of the smaller maps for Decades of Darkness.

If somebody can point me to a template I can use I can get to work.
 
Sure I will be glad to take a crack at this. I did some of the smaller maps for Decades of Darkness.

If somebody can point me to a template I can use I can get to work.
I will PM you in the near future to outline everything. I think using a map post-Berlin Conference would be the ticket to use as the starting point.
 
The Rape of Poland
Germany decided to add some of what use to be Vistula Land to their European holdings at New York. Well that was done prior at Konigsberg but at New York it became accept by the wider world. Yet after learning from Posen, they decided they didn’t want all those pesky Poles in their nation. It was one of the reasons they decided to create the Kingdom of Poland as a client state so they would have a place to force all the Poles in the newly annexed eastern territories without putting other nations in undue burdens as Germany in 1919 still had touchy relations with a number of nations. They forget one key thing through, all those pesky Poles that they didn’t want in their nation wouldn’t go quietly into the night. They were damn attached to their clay and wanted to hold on to it.


In the Polish Border Strip by modern[1] estimation 2.5 million Poles, Jews, and other groups lived here which the German Empire simply didn’t want. This was on the top of the 18 or so million Poles, Jews, and others living in the newly created Kingdom of Poland. Yet the Germans really didn’t give a damn about the flight of the Polish people they simply wanted to use the Kingdom of Poland to keep the Poles under control and get rich as they do it. As they set up this new kingdom in Poland to make this happen everything was being controlled by the Germans.


Ethnic Cleansing is never an easy or neat thing. Yet Germany didn’t plan to remove all of the Poles from the border strip they were annexing after they needed cheap labor for farming and other hard and physically demanding jobs. It also planned to use the Kingdom of Poland as a meat shield against Russia once she got her act together again. The crazy thing of it was even the damn French in the newly annexed lands in the West were getting a fairer shake than the Poles were. They were given the choice either accept German rule and be a subject of the Kaiser or we will pay for you to move out. The Poles weren’t even getting that, they had no choice in the matter.


What happened next for the interwar period became known as the Crime of the Century. Well till what happened in China which replaced the Rape of Poland as the Crime of the Century. If far passed what the Austro-Hungarians were doing and what the British and friends were doing in South Africa and India. Given the rapid advances in technology which followed WWII the Rape of Poland is viewed in a tragic light as this could had been stopped with the technology of the early 21st century, yet that wasn’t there in 1919 when this started.


At first as the Germans rounded up the Poles in the Border Strip they had annexed things when smooth enough for what was happening. Yet news of what was happening quickly spread. And it spread like wildfire. Within weeks of operations starting to force Poles out a general Polish strike to protest this. Then things get fuzzy as there is the official German history, then there is the history told by the people who lived it. These are two radically different views on the events that happened. The only thing they agree on it was violent.


What caused this to turn violent is a bit of a mystery with a few different ideas being put forward as the reason things got violent, but once they did things when downhill quickly. Things then spilled over to the Kingdom of Poland and Posen itself. As the violence spread the army set up the efforts to enforced this idea of removing Poles from the border strip. Yet by 1920 they changed the location where they were sending the Poles as they were already enforcing marshal law there, they started to send these Poles into the cluster fuck that was Russia.


It was at this point that it became all out ethnic warfare between the Germans and Poles. However, there was no one coming to save the Poles. Everyone else was too busy dealing with the after effects of the war in their own nation. By 1921 Germany gave up the pretense of even trying to have a puppet Polish Kingdom by annexing the whole of the Polish Kingdom and started to push large numbers of Poles across the new German Soviet-Russia border. Poles with money and means figured it out fairly quickly and started to take off to any nation where they could buy visas to. This didn’t affect the Poles in Posen but many also left Germany as this was unfolding.


By 1923 things were returning to something that was close to normal in the areas that were just annexed by Germany. However, the cost was staggering. Hard figures have never been agreed on but estimates run from a half of a million to two million people having died during this time. Up to 2.5 million left Germany and Poland, this is including Posen for other nations outside of Europe. The vast majority of these people were intellectuals, skill workers, or people who came from money. They landed all over the globe as many nations notably in South America, the Imperial Federation, and South Africa were trying to boost their populations in the wake of the war. Up to a further 6.5 million was forced over into the hell hole that was Soviet Union where from what records that can be viewed by the public they all ended up in Central Asian and Siberian in force worker gulags.


[1] ITL 2017
 

Cryostorm

Donor
Looks like ethnic cleansing is becoming an accepted practice for most countries tired of dealing with troublesome minorities, up to a point at least.
 
Looks like ethnic cleansing is becoming an accepted practice for most countries tired of dealing with troublesome minorities, up to a point at least.
Sadly it is. When I was working up this outline, I had a good long thinking session about this question. If I still drank booze, I would had a glass of brandy that night as it was that deep. But I saw that it would happen no matter what as I wasn't going to be able put modern morals into early 20th century leaders. Not with my POD. So I wrote about it and tried to show the shit choices made and why they were made.
 
Nice but horrible (for the subject) update; seem that the 'leit motiv' of the post-war settlement is: order at any cost even if it leave behind a worthless husk and if A-H implode with the Serbian and Polish precedent things will quickly become beyond terrible.
 
Nice but horrible (for the subject) update; seem that the 'leit motiv' of the post-war settlement is: order at any cost even if it leave behind a worthless husk and if A-H implode with the Serbian and Polish precedent things will quickly become beyond terrible.
When A-H goes, its going to be something very different as these precedents happened after a war. Granted things weren't that great prior or during the war, but what happens with A-H is going to be something very different.
 
When A-H goes, its going to be something very different as these precedents happened after a war. Granted things weren't that great prior or during the war, but what happens with A-H is going to be something very different.
Are we talking Just general Ethnic Cleansing bad or Eastern Europe during the AANW bad?
 
British Fascism
The British were at a cross roads following the end of World War One. They hadn’t been totally defeated like the French or fallen into the throws of revolution like the Russians. Yet they had been dealt a nasty blow. They had lost two of their dominions to the United States of America outright along with countless colonies. Their losses to the Germans weren’t as bad. They were able to carry more weight at New York unlike others there on the side of the entente as they didn’t have troops on their home dirt as others did. Yet the disgrace of losing the war was a major effect on the British psyche.


India the crown jewel of the British Empire had been spared fighting in this war as none of the powers in this war had the ability to reach her. Yet the British Indian Army had seen heavy fighting in the Mesopotamian and Palestine Campaigns along with fighting in the South African Civil War. This fighting led to the main gains for the British Empire. The people in India through that this effort by the British Indian Army should warrant some control in their own domestic issues possibly even dominion status within the Empire.


London however had other ideas. They were more focus on dealing with the unrest that had been caused by their defeat within the home islands not on granting India any form of autonomy. Also by the rising of the Conservative Empire Party[1] led by Winston Churchill[2] who was gaining the support of the masses within the British Isles. Then two events came back to back that radically changed the course of the British Empire. The first was the Dublin Bombings and then not even a week later the Madras Riots happened in 1921


The Irish Question was a prickly question about the status of Ireland within the Empire that was being debated with the Third Irish Home Rule Act being debated when the war started. The act was placed on hold as winning the war took priory. Following the war recovering from it and keeping the unrest from getting out of control took priory. The radical Sinn Fein with the help of Irish-American groups decided to rise up against the British and free Ireland. Once the US government learned up this help they put their foot down. Yet the plans were already in motion and Sinn Fein were able to place bombs in two of the Royal Irish Constabulary in June 1921.


Then not even a week later the Madras Riots happened. These riots were caused by spikes in food prices as inflation of the British Indian Rupee was such that the price of a pound of rice was out of reach of many in India. The riots at Madras were violent and the unit of the British Indian Army sent to put down the riots in Madras joined the rioters as the British were doing nothing about bring the cost of food under control.


As the news of Madras spread in India revolts started to break out across India. This promoted more unrest in the British Isles as they were worried they would see the down fall of the Empire. The actions of the Prime Minister in the wake of this promoted a crisis of leadership in parliament. This forced a snap election to be called. The public wasn’t happy with either the Conservative and Liberal Parties which had been ruling the British for generations. Churchill being a great orator was able to rally people to his Conservative Empire Party. When the votes were counted following the election Churchill and his party pulled off what many through was impossible, they won a slim majority in the House of Commons.


Once Prime Minister, Churchill acted quickly. He deployed the British Army to India to put down the revolt there with the help of the Imperial Federation and South Africa. In Ireland he had all the members of Sinn Fein arrested and held without trial or even being charged with a crime. Things in India became bloody with a number of massacres on both sides. No one had clean hands in India. But by 1923 India was back under control. The Sinn Fein were kicked out of the Empire and they generally ended up in either Quebec or the United States.


[1] Basically the ITL British Fascist Party, but somewhat different feel to it than the OTL British Fascist.

[2] Churchill was born in 1874 OTL, even through he wasn’t in the womb at the time of the POD I see the Churchills as trying to have children then. So I can see him being born as per OTL, but a radically different person because of butterflies.
 
[2] Churchill was born in 1874 OTL, even through he wasn’t in the womb at the time of the POD I see the Churchills as trying to have children then. So I can see him being born as per OTL, but a radically different person because of butterflies.

Makes sense.
 
Top