A nation-state including Portugal, Galicia and León

Hello! It's my first post on AHD, though I've been following the forum for some years now, so pardon me for any mistakes in regard of forum policy.

I've been working on an early Modern period timeline focused on Iberia, and I was wondering if "Spain" could've had a larger iberian counterpart, instead of having Castille blob every other kingdom except Portugal. With that said, I'd like to hear suggestions about how a medieval kingdom, and later nation-state, comprising roughly of the territories of Galicia, Portugal and León would be like. In what ways it could've been formed, what names it could have possibly had and in what ways this could change the history of Spain(in this case, the rest of the Iberian Penninsula) and Age of Discovery.
 
Welcome to the site, you're fine as long as you use basic common sense and politeness. :)

I would say essentially not TOO much different from history. Portugal gets a significant boost in population but it's still essentially Portugal as we know it, and Castile-Spain itself still holds a majority - including the most core and important lands it traditionally held - of the population and resources it had in reality. Portugal might be able to send a few more ships and trading expeditions, maybe a bit more colonists to Brazil, but this is definitely "you need to focus on the small details and butterflies" territory - the broad strokes will probably remain the same as OTL.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Welcome and feel free to post.

Portugal's first king D. Henriques was forced to trade over 20 castles for the liberation of heir D. Sancho who had been captured at Baylor of cidade Rodrigo. That to me would be a great start having Sancho capture cidade Rodrigo.
 
Change the roles between Portugal and Castile.

If instead of Portugal, Castile is the one breaking away from Leon then the County of Portugal would be the main power of the Kingdom of Leon and eventually a Kingdom of Leon-Portugal would be formed, much like Castile-Leon was formed.

The extra population would change the way the country evolves, specially on the northern coast where Viana do Castelo would probably rise to become the main Atlantic port of Minho-Galiza, which would give a boost to the naval construction capabilities of the Kingdom compared to OTL. More navy means a easier job in projecting power in India and Southeast Asia, which will be the main areas of interest during the 15th and 16th centuries, so we can see a bigger State of India and a viable State of Malacca.

Another interesting point would be the attempts that this Kingdom would make to gain control of the other Iberian Kingdoms and to achieve control of coastal Morocco.
 
Welcome to the site, you're fine as long as you use basic common sense and politeness. :)

I would say essentially not TOO much different from history. Portugal gets a significant boost in population but it's still essentially Portugal as we know it, and Castile-Spain itself still holds a majority - including the most core and important lands it traditionally held - of the population and resources it had in reality. Portugal might be able to send a few more ships and trading expeditions, maybe a bit more colonists to Brazil, but this is definitely "you need to focus on the small details and butterflies" territory - the broad strokes will probably remain the same as OTL.

I figured Castille-Spain wouldn't be severely damaged by the absence of Galicia and Léon, as those were the least populated areas in her domain. Including these lands to under Portuguese influence is much more significant I believe, as cities such as Santiago and Salamanca could contribute to a greater cultural identity, creating eventually 2 very distinct halfs of the Penninsula.
 
Welcome and feel free to post.

Portugal's first king D. Henriques was forced to trade over 20 castles for the liberation of heir D. Sancho who had been captured at Baylor of cidade Rodrigo. That to me would be a great start having Sancho capture cidade Rodrigo.
Once again, your knowledge of portuguese history enlightens me, Lusitania. I've been following your timelines for some time.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Once again, your knowledge of portuguese history enlightens me, Lusitania. I've been following your timelines for some time.
Thank you, another major equilibrium in the peninsula between Portugal and Castile was the capture of Badajoz. IOTL Castile capture of city kept the Portuguese on the western bank of the Guadiana river. Portugal capture of it during reconquista would allow Portugal to control parts of Andalusia.
 
It certainly makes Portugal more balanced with the rest of the peninsula. A Portugal with more people is better placed to exploit its colonies and maintain more power later on (compare 19th century Portugal vs 19th century Spain).

The extra population would change the way the country evolves, specially on the northern coast where Viana do Castelo would probably rise to become the main Atlantic port of Minho-Galiza, which would give a boost to the naval construction capabilities of the Kingdom compared to OTL. More navy means a easier job in projecting power in India and Southeast Asia, which will be the main areas of interest during the 15th and 16th centuries, so we can see a bigger State of India and a viable State of Malacca..

If Viana do Castelo overtakes Porto as I've seen discussed often in these scenarios, would we call a port wine a "Viana do Castelo wine" or some variant of that instead?
 
It certainly makes Portugal more balanced with the rest of the peninsula. A Portugal with more people is better placed to exploit its colonies and maintain more power later on (compare 19th century Portugal vs 19th century Spain).



If Viana do Castelo overtakes Porto as I've seen discussed often in these scenarios, would we call a port wine a "Viana do Castelo wine" or some variant of that instead?

Porto would still be a major port, Viana would be bigger because it would be the main port for Galicia instead of Vigo.

Relating to the wine the answer is nope. Douro wine would still go to Porto, Viana isn't a major wine producer, the Minho region is but the wine is known as Green Wine.
 

Lusitania

Donor
The 1st objective of a Portuguese, Galician and Leon country would be to be able to project stronger power in the reconquista. Only with that will Portuguese country have a chance at stronger overseas empire.

A stronger country would be able to conquer Badajoz and project its power into Andalusia even taking Seville and the entire Atlantic south coast. Leaving Castile with its northern coast (till it conquered Granada).

It would also be able to conquer additional territory in North Africa which would be its primary focus till age of exploration.

It would also be in position to control not only Azores, Madeira but also the Canary Islands.

Now you have a strong base for exploration.
 
The 1st objective of a Portuguese, Galician and Leon country would be to be able to project stronger power in the reconquista. Only with that will Portuguese country have a chance at stronger overseas empire.

A stronger country would be able to conquer Badajoz and project its power into Andalusia even taking Seville and the entire Atlantic south coast. Leaving Castile with its northern coast (till it conquered Granada).

It would also be able to conquer additional territory in North Africa which would be its primary focus till age of exploration.

It would also be in position to control not only Azores, Madeira but also the Canary Islands.

Now you have a strong base for exploration.
What if they became united after the great conquests of the 13th century? Maybe an alternate Fernandine War, along with support from gallician nobles, gives Portugal an opportunity to seize territory from Santiago to Badajoz? I know it requires a few conditions to be plausible.
 

Lusitania

Donor
I actually at one time started to write an outline of a TL that did this very idea. L Had to put on hold due to life and the main TL. Don't know if I still have the notes though. As for exactly when Portugal took Leon I would need to see (if I have).
 
I actually at one time started to write an outline of a TL that did this very idea. L Had to put on hold due to life and the main TL. Don't know if I still have the notes though. As for exactly when Portugal took Leon I would need to see (if I have).
Oh wow now I feel like I stole your idea haha. I hope my plans for the later part of the timeline are different at least.
 
Interesting idea! How would the linguistic makeup of this Kingdom be like? Would Portuguese become the chief language? Would it evolve differently?
 

Lusitania

Donor
Oh wow now I feel like I stole your idea haha. I hope my plans for the later part of the timeline are different at least.
I only wrote till 1400 Aprox. Got boggled down in the Castilian succession war. But you not steal anything just came up with similar premise the idea is yours and TL is yours.
 
Interesting idea! How would the linguistic makeup of this Kingdom be like? Would Portuguese become the chief language? Would it evolve differently?
You know, I was thinking if it could have been like the UK, where regional differences were largely left aside. I'd be less interested in a Spain oriented scenario, where everything that wasn't castillian was discouraged. I mean, even when León became united with castille the new kingdom became known as castille.
Maybe under a less Blob-like rule León and Galicia could have preserved their languages and culture to a larger extent. Given the stronger sense of identity(though I'm still thinking about what that could possibly revolve around) of this new Portuguese-driven kingdom, I believe it would only further the differences between portuguese and """""spanish""""".
Portuguese then would have a much larger room to breathe as a language. Though leonese and gallician(which would be like english with a scottish accent) would still be used, portuguese would become the language of the court, the government and, most importantly, of the universities. With the universities of Salamanca and Santiago(I know it depends on the POD, but bear with me), many more intellectuals would be speaking portuguese, which means more literature and theories in portuguese.
I guess it would be cool to have a collective of kingdoms in the Iberian Penninsula that identify themselves as "not spain", being very different in all aspects: progressive ideas, approach to colonisation, interest in european affairs... United Kingdom of Portugal, León, Galicia. It does sounds interesting.
 

Lusitania

Donor
United Kingdom of Portugal, León, Galicia. It does sounds interesting.
IOTL till 1807 the actual name was "Reino de Portugal e Algarve". Then became "Reino de Portugal, Algarve e Brazil". So it would make sense the name would be "Reino de Portugal, Galicia, Leão e Algarve". For starters.
 
IOTL till 1807 the actual name was "Reino de Portugal e Algarve". Then became "Reino de Portugal, Algarve e Brazil". So it would make sense the name would be "Reino de Portugal, Galicia, Leão e Algarve". For starters.
I'm aware of that, though algarve wasn't really a distinct kingdom, and Brazil was a colony.
 

Lusitania

Donor
When King John fled to Rio in 1807 with the court he elevated Brazil from colony to equal partner in kingdom. Alas abit too late.

As for Algarve it was a nominal kingdom within the Portuguese kingdom (without any seperate institutions or courts). This would bring us to Galicia and Leon would it be similar to Algarve or more like Scotland?

Algarve was an independent Arabic kingdom prior to Portuguese conquest of Silves.
 
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