A most dark matter: demographics of expanded Lebensraum

Yes, because a Japan that has Manchurian oil is going to attack the US no matter what. Sure.

If it's going to take the Dutch East Indies, it has to. Again, leaving the Philippines intact would be like Germany deciding to invade the USSR and leave an independent Yugoslavia and Greece on its southern flank if both pledged perfect neutrality but kept their OTL leanings toward the Allies intact.
 
If it's going to take the Dutch East Indies, it has to. Again, leaving the Philippines intact would be like Germany deciding to invade the USSR and leave an independent Yugoslavia and Greece on its southern flank if both pledged perfect neutrality but kept their OTL leanings toward the Allies intact.

Err, no, the analogy doesn't work, and besides that keeping Yugoslavia and Greece intact would have been a good idea in most cases.

If you get someone like Kanji Ishiwara anywhere near power, they'll do their utmost to avoid giving the US causus belli.
 
Err, no, the analogy doesn't work, and besides that keeping Yugoslavia and Greece intact would have been a good idea in most cases.

If you get someone like Kanji Ishiwara anywhere near power, they'll do their utmost to avoid giving the US causus belli.

If it's the same Japan where government by assassination appears to be vindicated ITTL, not hardly. This assumes an Axis whose ideology, even with its excesses, leads to complete and overwhelming victory. That will encourage them moreso than OTL to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
 
If it's the same Japan where government by assassination appears to be vindicated ITTL, not hardly. This assumes an Axis whose ideology, even with its excesses, leads to complete and overwhelming victory. That will encourage them moreso than OTL to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.


This is called a best case scenario. It's nowhere near a 99/1 shot, it's not terribly unlikely at all. Proceeding from the POD, Japan is probably less antagonized against the US, because the US has fewer easy tools to antagonize Japan with. They're in a stronger position vs the British navy specifically because they're having rough going vs the Euroaxis. They're in a stronger position vs all navies, including the US, because they have a reliable oil supply. They have less of a need for quick, risky schemes because.... they have a reliable oil supply. In this scenario the cost benefit ratio of leaving the Philippines intact is good compared to OTL.
 

Eurofed

Banned
Does it continue or not?

I think so, although I have yet to write the next update. Ideas expressed by contributors like Sol Zagato (about the subject of the thread) and yourself (about the generational clash in fascist Europe) have been useful, although I have to merge them with my own insights.

However another geopolitical area where I realized I may lack a clear and detailed picture is the socio-political evolution of the Japanese empire. I fear East Asia is going to be a rather fuzzy area of the TL, if someone isn't going to feed me some good ideas for the evolution of the Yamato guys.

On a side note, even if pragmatic successors scrapped or seriously toned down Hitler's grandiose urban renewal pictures, I feel that the totalitarian definite taste for megaprojects should definitely survive ITTL. I have already decided that the fascists shall still build the Zuiderzee Works and the Aswam Dam, and they shall flood the Qattara Depression with seawater. I'm more dubious about them doing any of the Soviet hydraulic megaprojects in Siberia and Central Asia, given that the area is still quite peripheral to their control and colonization efforts. If anyone has good ideas for TTL fascist megaprojects, by all means post them for me. Also stuff that the CFN may decide to do on its own territory, given that ITTL North America is somewhat less averse to "Big State".
 
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Do you want an honest-to-god Greater East Asian co-Prosperity Sphere? Put Kanji Ishiwara in charge. For all I've read, it seems he really was a very, very smart cookie who honestly wanted to build up China. (There's a pretty good TL someone did with him awhile back: The Ishiwara Option- looks like it's offsite though)

Ishiwara was also the man behind the Japanese seizure of Manchuria.
 
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Eurofed

Banned
I just posted next update for the TL, which covers the 60s-early 80s periods and effectively brings TTL Lebensraum to its maximum extent, apart from some mop-up in the Volga-Urals region.

Thanks to everyone that proffered constructive ideas about the thread topic, you were very helpful. :D
 
This is called a best case scenario. It's nowhere near a 99/1 shot, it's not terribly unlikely at all. Proceeding from the POD, Japan is probably less antagonized against the US, because the US has fewer easy tools to antagonize Japan with. They're in a stronger position vs the British navy specifically because they're having rough going vs the Euroaxis. They're in a stronger position vs all navies, including the US, because they have a reliable oil supply. They have less of a need for quick, risky schemes because.... they have a reliable oil supply. In this scenario the cost benefit ratio of leaving the Philippines intact is good compared to OTL.

Yeah, and technically speaking the USA is still overwhelmingly industrially superior. All the safe oil supplies in the world doesn't negate that Japan was underperforming next to the US economy of 1940 when Japan itself was at full power.
 
Yeah, and technically speaking the USA is still overwhelmingly industrially superior. All the safe oil supplies in the world doesn't negate that Japan was underperforming next to the US economy of 1940 when Japan itself was at full power.


It's about perception and present power. US warship tonnage ATL shouldn't be too much different than OTL at that point in time- and later on it might be lower than OTL due to a lack of war.

In any case, they'd feel safer from US attack, and more likely not to attack the US.
 
It's about perception and present power. US warship tonnage ATL shouldn't be too much different than OTL at that point in time- and later on it might be lower than OTL due to a lack of war.

In any case, they'd feel safer from US attack, and more likely not to attack the US.

And Germany and the USSR had a non-aggression pact.....;)
 
*Yawn* I'm not sure I'm connecting with you here. :

You apparently still think that this is inevitable and other considerations are irrelevant. This is ATL, for srs.

It would take a hell of an ATL to alter certain geopolitical and strategic considerations, and an even bigger one to get an Asia for the Asiatics idea that only wants to conquer India but is quite fine with a US-ruled Philippines. :rolleyes:
 
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