A Morning Star Burns Brighter - Lollard Reformation, a TLIAFD

[FONT=&quot]At last. A British political one![/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]You noticed some references to London and such, huh?[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Sure, I know you said you’d let someone else take it then, but I’m pleased to see a British political one; the originals all were, so when I saw Loll… Wait, what?![/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Lollards. John Wycliffe’s proto-Protestants.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I know who they were.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]What can I say? More snow and cold coming, I found it a while back after a couple years but didn’t feel like picking back up, and since you’rethe one whose been bugging me to do one that’s actually British.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I know, but…well, I could pull that one about me being you, but… Okay, this really came about before the TLIADs started, though, right?[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Yeah, but it really fits my TLIAW pattern; write in a few weeks, post in a day or two.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]And then you invite someone to continue the TL with this more successful Reformation?[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Precisely, once I announce the lst part; this is actually a bit shorter than the LIAD I just posted.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Now, somehow, I wish you’d go back to baseball[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I know the feeling. All that snow and cold, I definitely know the feeling.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]A/N: In “Sweet Lands of Liberty,” I ponder a Waldensian Reformation with a POD of a small change in them bringing more support among nobles, & a Savoyard becomes Waldo’s sponsor. With the Lollards, a sponsor exists in John of Gaunt, and he becomes king due to the POD.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]OTL’s Richard II dies with his brother as a child in 1370. As before, it won’t be as involved as some posters do, and I use very conservative, minimal butterflies, especially as noble marriages tend to be the same. Change comes fast in England, though – and, as a result, France has some major butterflies, too, and they spread to Anatolia within a few decades…[/FONT]
 
(A/N: More will come tomorrow after these first few parts, as noted I didn't find this for a couple years after i started working on it, and there's so much more which could be done, so if someone wants to work out the rough parts and just keep the basic plot once i get it all posted please do. posting as a TLIAFD but covers much more time than those usually do.)

[FONT=&quot]Part 1 – A Wheel of Fortune[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]The Black Prince was not named this because of sadness. The term wasn’t even coined till maybe over a century after his death – some say because of his black shield. However, the ups and downs of the late 14th century English princes exemplified the medieval saying that one lived on a wheel of fortune with its constant ups and downs.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Many think of the Black Prince’s name as meaning sadness. This is because of the era – the Great Famine of 1315-17 and Black Death in 1347-52, with plague springing up from time to time after that, too at least partly led to a lack of chivalry compared to prior centuries – and because the Black Prince himself lost both sons – his only children - at such young ages.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]The Black Prince was the hopeful successor to Edward III of England. Richard lasted longer when they became ill, but he died a few weeks after his older brother.(1) Suddenly the Black Prince was heirless. And, while he was still young enough to sire another son, the man who had been so lucky in war was unlucky in love, and family, and health. Dysentery weakened him considerably. He died before his father, Edward III, so he never even became King of England himself.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]“As with the peasants,” John Wycliffe remarked upon hearing of the Black Prince’s death, “so with the nobles. This life is short and hard, and nobody is exempt from the great plagues which haunt us in this fallen world.”[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]After he and his friend discussed other things, Wycliffe was reminded that his noble benefactor, John of Gaunt, could possibly inherit the throne.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]“That is God’s decision; God has allowed me to do much good work without the actual King of England supporting me, and God shall continue to reign whether or not John would become king, yea, even if I were to be executed by the Church I believe He would be glorified. Besides, is Philippa, the daughter of Lionel, not next in line?”[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]“Yes and no,” the messenger stated. “Lionel would have been. She would technically be, or if not her, her son Roger Mortimer could be. But, John is effectively in charge in His Royal Highness’ old age, and it will be easy to simply have him take the throne. As to when King Edward speaks on the subject, I shall let you know – obviously it will be after a proper time of mourning, but it is widely expected that John may be chosen in his will.”[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]While Wycliffe returned to praying and working on an English translation of the Bible, another John – perhaps the wealthiest man in Europe and among the most physically imposing at 6 feet 6 inches – was discussing the situation with Philippa. She let it be known that she would abide with his decision, though they also discussed how Roger could, perhaps, marry one of his daughters. His first 2 would be too old for the young boy, and more worthy of political alliances, (The oldest, in fact was already considered as a possible wife for the future King of Portugal should the latter be able to gain the crown.). But, his 3rd, Catherine, would be the right age, and they would not be first cousins so it would be easier to get the Pope to accept; she was a granddaughter of Edward III, Roger Mortimer was a great grandson.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Planning that far ahead, of course, was easier said than done in those days for anyone. He had to find a good wife for his eldest son, Henry, anyway, before he did anything else. He’d thought of the de Bohun family, but if John and then Henry were to become kings, political alliances were best. Still, that estate would be hard to pass up, and he deduced that perhaps he should try to influence the choice to favor himself.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Months passed. It became clear that John would inherit the throne from Edward III and be King himself. This filled him with a sense of awe at the power he could wield, and he began to consider what he might do.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Some weren’t happy. John had made enemies with his brash style and willingness to go against the grain in some ways. Now, his enemies had begun to slander him with talk of how he would “as bad as the last King John.” The Great Rumour, a revolt among peasants in 1377, got so bad John was almost lynched while Edward was still king(2) by some who felt they could then get Philippa as Queen because she’d be, well, not John. Women in this time weren’t seen as monarch material because of their inability to wage war. However, that had to be balanced against the fact that the previous King John had been a disaster for England; this made as little difference to most as complaints about Empress Matilda’s connection to Philippa, but it was enough of a concern that Philippa was championed by some. They hoped perhaps she would keep England out of such costly wars, they argued, thus negating high taxes.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]This revolt was put down, and John was crowned King John II after Edward’s passing in summer of 1377. He still planned to raise taxes. However, as he pushed Parliament to do so, he had an idea as to how to avoid having to tax the peasants so much. If he could seize the Church’s extensive property, he could tax it. He knew John Wycliffe, a man considered – in the words of one writer years later – “a heretic to half of London and a hero to the other half.” And, among Wycliffe’s other complaints about the Catholic Church which ruled Europe at the time was that the Church had too much property and that priests should live like the apostles had.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]So, part of the Reformation which is said to have begun with Wycliffe came out of a pure desire for money to fund a military adventure or two.(3) However, that was not the only reason, as he accepted Wycliffe and his preaching. It’s just that things were quite complicated.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]One of John II’s first moves was to get the Lollards, those being Wycliffe’s followers, on his side. If there was a revolt, their numbers would help a lot; he’d received a number of glowing congratulations from the Lollards, who were very pleased that John Wycliffe’s benefactor was now on the throne.(4) He wasn’t sure if Philippa’s supporters would support him; he only knew that the Mortimer family, which she’d married into, was quite wealthy themselves. This small move toward the Lollards would have ramifications later as the tumult grew.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Philippa died only months after John II’s coronation, which kept her from vying for power, but increased the chance that someone might try to put her eldest son on the throne, with one of John’s opponents as the boy’s regent. Indeed, now he feared the possibility that Philippa’s widowed former husband might try to marry Mary de Bohun. He was heavily considering marrying Henry, his son, to her anyway till two things happened to change those plans.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]John of Gaunt knew he would have his work cut out for him, and would have to raise taxes for now till he figured out a way to get land and money from the Church.(5) He had a hard act to follow after; Edward III had reigned for half a century, after all, and by most accounts had been a very good king for England.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]John II wouldn’t reign nearly that long. But, he would definitely carve out a place for himself in history.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot](1) The POD, obviously. OTL he survived and became Richard II[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot](2) This happened OTL as well; it’s a bit bigger this time, and takes the place of OTL 1381’s Peasant Revolt.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot](3) Part of OTL’s Reformation in England started because a king wanted a divorce, so such an odd reason for a Reformation to begin isn’t impossible.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot](4) True, he didn’t do this as Richard II’s regent OTL, but Richard was clearly the rightful king then, as Edward the Black Prince’s son. Here, it’s dicier, so John II is trying to get as many people on his side as he can, and he knows Wycliffe and his followers are loyal to him since he supported them before. Plus, there is the small change here as mentioned which can help endear them to John II.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot](5) The extreme wealth of the Church was a concern, but not one John of Gaunt worried as much about OTL as he does here, where as king and with the Lollards having his ear just a bit more, he becomes a bit more willing to go after it. Not having the de Bohun money and wanting more of his own also plays a small part.[/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]Part 2 – Here a Pope, There a Pope, Everywhere a Pope…[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot] John II needed money to support an army, but his ideas of taxing seemed quite harsh to people. He took note of this, and along with his taxing also went about figuring out how to get some of the money from the clergy.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]He had a problem, though – which pope might allow this? A number of cardinals had selected a rival pope, who would serve at Avignon with the other having moved back to Rome! Urban VI – the Roman one - enjoyed support from John II at first for preaching against extravagance in the Church. So, to bring peace and an alliance on his behalf against the rival pope, Urban suggested that he could arrange a marriage between John’s son Henry and Anne of Bohemia. Michael de la Pole, who would become one of Henry’s closest friends, was a big supporter of this unpopular move.(1) Some preferred Bohun for the future Henry IV.(2) However, the prospect of forming an alliance with the Holy Roman Empire against France was quite appealing to John II - he wanted to continue the war – and so with the Emperor on the Pope’s side - well, one of the Popes - John II considered the marriage to Anne of Bohemia.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot] Of course, Wycliffe had said that John II shouldn’t support any pope, but the Archbishop of Canterbury – Simon Sudbury – didn’t buy Wycliffe’s position, that was for sure. While Sudbury had been less harsh than some when questioning Wycliffe, he was certainly not about to abide by Lollard demands of the Church hierarchy’s elimination. (Although, when the subject was broached, Wycliffe said in no way would he ever accept his becoming a “state church,” and he hoped that no right-thinking Lollard would even accept being appointed archbishop.)[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]John II was confident that Sudbury wasn’t overly hostile. Oxford would expel Wycliffe soon. A fair amount of England, especially in the North, was still very much against Wycliffe and considered him a heretic. However, England afforded more freedom than many places for such people in the late 14th century.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Some clerics were concerned about. Lollardy’s popularity, as it spread bit by bit, now gaining a foothold in Norfolk and Suffolk. Wycliffe encouraged people to believe in the universal priesthood of the believer, and that the true Church was not Roman, but universal with only Christ at the head. Each person could have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ by calling on Jesus to forgive and save them from their sins, because Christ had done all that was needed by dying for each person’s sins on the cross and rising from the dead; “Christ was sacrificed once for all,” Wycliffe often proclaimed. That, after all, was what the Bible taught.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]People flocked to Wycliffe and his followers; the Black Plague’s terror was still in many minds, and there were a few aged (for that time) people who recalled the Great Famine of 1315-17. These stories had been passed down, too, for those who recalled neither[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot] John II and the pope in Rome squabbled for a couple years over a few things. Pope Urban complained about John II’s legitimizing of his illegitimate issue with Katherine Swynford in 1377 upon taking the throne, and later threatened sanctions if he took Church property. In return in 1381, John II threatened to support the Avignon papacy instead. The match with the daughter of the Holy Roman Emperor could still go forward; he knew that while the Emperor supported Rome now, there had certainly been times in history when the Empire and Rome had been very much at odds, and if he could drive a wedge between them, it might help him in his attempt to tax Catholic Church property.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]The papacy had its own problems, but so did John II. Philippa’s husband, the 3rd Earl of March, had opposed Edward III, along with being a staunch opponent of John of Gaunt before he took the throne. Some whispered that he’d had a part in the near lynching of John before the king’s death, though that’s not likely since Edward likely would have named John’s son, Henry, as his successor instead.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Either way, March set out to investigate how much support his son Roger would have if he were placed on the throne, with March himself as regent. Or, at the least, how much opposition there was to John remaining king. One of Edward III’s other sons, Thomas, eagerly offered his support for the Mortimers’ claim, although this created tension that would prove costly as Thomas was said to desire the throne himself.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Peasants were in an uproar anyway because of taxation and the lack of freedom to choose their employers; the feudal system was slowly dying out in England, but peasants wished it to disappear right away. Small revolts occurred for a while. Then, early in 1381, anger erupted over excessive taxes. Mortimer made his move, but not without confusion due to Thomas’ presence. Together, they hoped to use the peoples’ anger to spark the revolt that would put Roger on the throne of England instead of John.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Given the hatred against Archbishop Sudbury over his role with the taxes, John II used that opportunity to replace him and appoint his own archbishop so he could “do as he pleased” with Papal lands. He also denounced the peasants’ demonstrations as being “against the natural right of the king to rule,” even though some of the peasants wondered who exactly had appointed the Earl of March as their spokesman, anyway? The man had pretty much just decided he was their spokesman without asking them.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]John II’s appointment of his own archbishop – partly to get some of the peasants on his side - made Rome livid So, when the leaders of the revolt - stating that they spoke for the “rightful King, Roger I of England” - asked Rome to appoint an archbishop who would be much harsher against Lollardy, Rome ordered William Courtenay to go. He’d been another outspoken opponent of John II’s. Rome reaffirmed that Sudbury was still Archbishop, and nothing the king did could change it. (Although Courtenay would make a good choice once Sudbury died, and they‘d already planned to ask Courtenay to negotiate between the king and Sudbury, though privately they told Courtenay to “talk some sense into that king’s fat head.”)[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Sudbury found himself torn – the aging archbishop felt he had an ally in Courtenay, but on the other hand he knew John II could send him into exile. And, if he didn’t do what John wanted and donate Church lands and funds to him, he feared the people, for they had been told that the more Church land that was seized, the less their taxes would be.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Worse, as 1381 wore on, the Avignon pope, Clement, seeking to prove himself as the real pope, inserted his own Archbishop of Canterbury into the fray. Since Scotland supported Avignon, he sent for a Scotsmen to go to London, and one bishop did. There were now four Archbishops of Canterbury if one counted Courtenay, and three even if one didn’t; Sudbury, John II’s choice, and the Scotsman.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Owain Glyndwr and his Welsh supporters also supported Avignon once their revolt began, and Clement asked them to identify a good bishop who might be helpful even now, having heard that John’s unpopularity had led to tensions that could erupt in a revolt.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Upon hearing the Avignon choice had arrived, John II replied, “Scotland I can see, but it is clear that the Welsh suggestion is just an attempt to confuse the situation and make us more unable to sustain our lands in France. And even the Scottish one may be politically motivated. So, I now have more archbishops on my handthan I know what to do with; this is why I insist on my own, rather than answering to that confused mess in Rome and Avignon.” John II added, “And, there are 2 popes; is it any wonder I am moving more and more toward wishing to be the head of the church in England; why anyone can see the Catholics are making a mockery of their very ecclesiastical structure,” the king finished[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]The idea of England breaking from the Church riled the Lollards up even more. Wycliffe and others in their sermons made extensive use of this response by John II:[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Sudbury would not live long(3), but that only took the number of claimants down to 3. And, John II was determined to work only with his. He reached arrangements with the peasants after some time, meeting a few of their demands, forcing clerics to be bound to uphold English law and also for an end to the harsh taxing – he knew he wouldn’t be fighting in France anyway for a while with the revolt there in England. A few other things were also discussed.(4)[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]This agreement brought the more amenable peasants over to his side, helping to divide the armies of Mortimer. One of the Lollards who had considered joining the revolt decided against it because of the rival king that the peasants were supporting, as well as the fact John II had successfully turned the argument against the Church.(5) However, rebellion would plague John II for a few years yet, as the Welsh revolt would also begin soon.(6) Not having one of their own branded a traitor would make it even easier for the Lollards to preach, while also impacting the rest of Europe quite a bit.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot](1) The arrangement made for Richard II OTL - mostly encouraged by Richard’s relationship with the de la Poles. It was unpopular with British nobles because all it gained was a small bit of trading rights within the Holy Roman Empire. Such a friendship stands a good chance of happening with Henry, since John of Gaunt was pretty much running England at the time OTL.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot](2) The unpopularity of the Bohemian match means Mary may be viable, as there is nothing to be gained by the Bohemian match.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot](3) While not killed in the Peasants Revolt like in OTL, the stress plus his age – born around 1316 or so – means he likely would only live a few more years.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot](4) In other words, a similar end as to OTL Peasants’ Revolt[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot](5) OTL John Ball, a Lollard preacher, joined the Peasants’ Revolt, but circumstances in TTL have changed enough that he chooses not to; yes, John of Gaunt was a regent anyway for Richard II OTL, but he’d make enough different choices as king to make the small difference that leads to the man choosing to side with the king. In addition, the Earl of March would be more clearly leading this, not a simple peasant like Wat Tyler, which also leads Ball to decide to support Wycliffe’s sponsor, John II.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot](6) With the leader already in his 40s it is highly possible that a small civil war could inspire him to start his own, since he started his in 1400 when there was already conflict as Henry IV came to power over Richard II.[/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]Part 3 - ...And Stay Out![/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]As John II slowly gained victory over Mortimer’s forces in the North of England, Henry IV gained military experience. There were still those who wanted John II out and Roger in, but Philippa’s husband was killed in battle in early 1382, lessening much of the pressure. While any overture to France had to be handled with care, a truce was signed in 1384.(1)[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]The Mortimer children were placed under the care of people very close to John II. They raised them and ensured that they “not cause trouble with the inheritance.” Though all lived into adulthood, John and later Henry kept a tight watch on their money and movements.(2) The oldest Mortimer daughter was married to an illegitimate son of John’s, in order to “try to bring peace” but a further trick was employed when Henry IV had a daughter and Edmund, the younger Mortimer son, was betrothed to her. Now, if Roger tried to overthrow Henry, he would be cutting off his own brother’s chance at being King Consort should Henry IV fail to have a male heir.(3)[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]John felt comfortable by this time helping Portugal to secure a victory in a war – a victory which would help cement the everlasting friendship between England and Portugal – and then to fight in Castile to try to gain their throne for his wife. As he did so, violence erupted in England again, this time supported by the Catholics. Thomas, Henry’s uncle, had escaped from where he was held captive and was now trying to take the throne himself, with John away. Henry wound up capturing Homas in battle and executing him.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Meanwhile, John II had been working on his plans to reward those clergy who were willing to support him while also taxing the Catholic clergy, no matter what the pope said; and the Pope was just as irate over John insisting that clergy answer to English laws. John decided, after dithering over other candidates, and after an Italian one was refused by the woman’s father, that Anne of Bohemia would be Henry’s bride; they were married in 1383.(4)[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Anne of Bohemia became a very popular princess, well known for her mercy and pleading for people before the king, who gladly listened to her. She showed incredible promise among the people as a future queen, despite the marriage having brought no financial benefit except for helping some of England’s merchants and giving England an ally against France as the English retooled for more war in a few years.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Sadly, Anne was destined not only never to become queen, but to produce only a daughter which survived; she died in mid-1394 of the plague.(5) She was greatly mourned, and John II used this to incite people further against the Catholic Church, claiming that the Pope had placed a “curse” upon her for his decisions. John II had been fighting the Church to get more land for quite a while, using every trick he could as the Hundred Years’ War resumed in 1392.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]He decided to use the death of Anne of Bohemia to put in motion his ultimate plan; a break with the Catholic Church. If there could be another pope in Avignon, he argued, why not an English Church? He’d tried for too long to get the Church to bend to his wishes.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Plans were finalized to bring English clergy in line with the new Church of England which John II established. All clergy would be required to preach in English, among other things, and be held to English civil and criminal law; just as he’d decreed in 1381 (at the behest of the people) that Catholics would be. John didn’t tax his churches, but he did tax Catholic churches. (It made sense, anyway; most of John II’s churchmen were very poor and wouldn’t have had to pay taxes under a system where they paid by income.) Other than this, however, he waited for the Catholics to make the first move rather than declare war on them. If they left him alone, he would leave them alone.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]A group of men held a council in early 1395 to declare the beliefs of the new Church of England – John II’s hierarchy would have to follow these tenets. Much to Rome’s disgust, this Council included Lollards. Things decided at the Council included the need to preach “salvation by grace alone, not by any work of man, through a personal choice to place one’s faith in Jesus Christ for their salvation, through His finished work on the Cross, not through the church.” They also declared that they would only abide by the Bible as authority, “not Roman tradition, nor any tradition we should establish.”[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Despite all this, John II said he hadn’t wanted to break with Rome, merely reform it. However, Rome refused to hear anything of John’s between 1378 and 1394, even after Wycliffe died with his final words, “Dawn is coming to Europe, praise the Lord.” The Catholic Church excommunicated King John and, later, “anyone who dares to follow England’s hierarchy or attend her heretical churches.”[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]At first during this period of 1378-1394, Avignon had waited to see what he would do against France, if anything, in the long-standing war between the 2 countries. The fact that John had signed a truce with France meant that there was a chance he would align his country with the Pope at Avignon, and a number of Catholics in the 1380s had supported the Scottish archbishop whom Avignon had sent to be their Archbishop of Canterbury. John II tolerated and even encouraged this for a while as a way to thumb his nose at Rome, but the Avignon Pope also didn’t like a lot of what this council had decided, so a break was made with them, too. The Avignon pope reportedly said, “I agree with Rome over nothing except this – that John of England brings blight upon his people. I only wish we were powerful enough to launch a crusade against that heretical isle.” [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot] John II had also invited Waldensians to come live in England, to further thumb his nose at Rome, but also to antagonize the Avignon Papacy, as there were still Waldensians remaining from the persecution which had occurred in France, though most were in the Alps. Many (for that time) wound up fleeing to English-held France by 1400, and, later, to England.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot] One historian wrote that “John wanted to appear superior to both popes… Whether or not the Avignon Papacy eventually would have recognized his break with Rome isn’t clear, though it seem unlikely,” she noted. Adding to this, the author wrote, “This showed John II’s absolute arrogance at times in his decision-making, as if he wanted to make enemies. This would not be good for his continued role as king. Yes, later, he would be seen as a great proponent of liberty. Instead, it appears he should be seen as one whose promotion of liberty was serendipitous - a fortunate side-effect of something which was meant to line the king’s coffers.”(6)[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot] Regardless of his intent, he became a symbol of liberty for some, especially as the Waldensians poured (well, for that era) into England. His son Henry’s bride, before her death, had added to this image with her great concern for the poor and her pleading for mercy for others who petitioned the king.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot] It was clear that Rome wanted Catholics to rebel against the Crown, and after a short resumption of the war in 1392 the Pope at Avignon was being pushed by French king Charles VI to force an end to the English claims to the French throne, rather than just encouraging England to honor the truce. Perhaps by promising to end Catholic hostility he could in return get a pledge from the British not to attack them anymore. So, Catholics were allowed some freedom as long as they didn’t try to take the throne for themselves, and many nobles had to decide if they wanted to declare for John II’s church or the Catholic one – and if Catholic, which?[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Rome was irate for another reason, too. A dispute in Brittany gave John II reason to send another force in 1392, now that his coffers were somewhat filled with Church funds. Rome had always been able to count on the French to send forces for a crusade, and often the English, too. Now, the English hated Rome – even before Princess Anne’s death - and the French were too caught up in not only skirmishes with England but also their own strife, which would blow up in their faces early in 1393. Literally, in fact![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luckily for France, John II would find it hard to take advantage. He’d not helped the treasury with all his warring, and had angered a lot of people. It was hard for tax collectors as they tried to get money from Catholics who became very good at hiding wealth, necessitating more to find it. So, unable to get any further in 1393, John II signed another truce.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In this lull in the Hundred Years’ War, John II found more and more people enjoying the religious freedom he offered; and, Wycliffe’s supporters saw more and more coming to Lollardy, partly because it still had a decent reputation,(7) but especially because in 1396 - after the king had pumped some money into a search for a viable printing press thanks to stories from traders to China – the printing press was developed in England. John’s great amount of personal wealth was still there, but he’d wanted to put some into asking people to develop technology, partly for war, partly to see if he could get his Church materials published in English faster, and to simply get the people educated in their own language faster, given the prevalence of Latin.(8) He hadn’t quite kicked all the Catholics out, but by the end of John II’s reign, the Catholic Church’s hierarchy had been greatly diminished, and as much as the Roman pope wanted to try to fight England, he had his own problems against the Ottomans and with Avignon.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Perhaps the best assessment of John II’s reign can be found in a historian’s comments from a few centuries later. “It is possible - given John II’s intense brashness and the way he turned off people, squandered the budget, and fought endlessly with words and deeds, and yet on the other hand supported a people wanting to be out from under the oppression of the Catholic Church of that era and even supported education and innovation, if only for his own gain and desire to break from the Latin of the Church and allow the English language itself to flourish – one may perhaps consider John II both among the worst and best monarchs England has had.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]---------------[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](1) During Richard II’s reign, somehow rumors spread that he wanted to invite French occupation; these rumors were apparently intertwined with the Lord’s Appellent. With a different situation, a truce comes years earlier, with the largest rebellion put down.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](2) Not that this would stop them, of course, if the chance came, but it would be less likely, and John wasn’t the kind, apparently, to murder to prevent problems; he figures he can exert pressure in other ways.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](3) OTL the oldest married Richard II’s half-niece, but here the Black Prince’s stepchildren, who entered the family through his 2nd wife, don’t factor into anything, as Joan of Kent, Richard II’s mother, won’t be influencing them toward that family.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](4) Caterina Visconti – the man sent to negotiate had misgivings about the match and the woman’s father may have also rejected ii OTL in 1379 – with John of Gaunt’s attitude it’s quite possible there is a firmer rejection TTL, and even if not, it’d still be refused.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](5) OTL she produced no heirs, but her husband produced none with his 2nd wife and also none with any mistresses. It’s quite possible he was unable to produce any. Nonetheless, neither her brothers nor her sisters produced many heirs themselves. Since her sister produced one girl, combined with a very low survival rate for infants it’s quite plausible to give her one girl who survives past childhood.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](6) In some ways, it’s hard to say how he’d be seen; Henry VIII’s break with Rome isn’t really seen as being a big blow for freedom, but he didn’t govern the land which started the Reformation OTL, so John II gets a little break here. However, this historian would be noting the positive aspects of how some people viewed John II, that’s what matters in that quote.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](7) The focus is on a rival king and other things, and thus there are no Lollards caught up in the leadership of the Peasants’ Revolt in 1381.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](8) Around 50 years early, but very plausible, and the reason can help it move along. The freedom England provides also helps.[/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]Part 4 – France Goes Coup-Coup[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The first attack of insanity which is known about hit France’s King Charles VI in July of 1392. In January of 1393, he burned to death as the result of another one – or at least a serious lapse in judgment – which led to a fire. It is said that someone might have noticed him in disguise, but the English had begun to step up attacks, and the queen’s ladies in waiting were distracted enough that nobody covered the king – who, along with several others, was covered in flammable wax as a masquerade.(1) “If this wasn’t an attack of insanity,” someone wrote, “it should have been, for he should have known someone would bring a torch into the darkened place even though people were strictly warned of the fire hazard connected with the prank.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] France might have fallen to a really good English commander at this point. John II was not one, however. He’d also tried to place his wife on the throne of Castille and failed. When he couldn’t get any further into France, he wisely made peace in mid-year in an effort to gain influence over the French throne that way.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] It seems there was a Dauphin – eleven-month-old Charles was crowned King Charles VII of France the next day that January of 1393. Even before his father’s death, though, major hostilities arose within the kingdom, and these grew much worse with the need of a Regent for Charles VII; this is why John II figured he could gain in playing the influence game what he couldn’t in battle.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Indeed, things got to the point John II considered that – if it kept up - he or his son might be welcomed in by even some French nobles to bring a sense of order to the realm.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The late Charles VI’s brother, Louis, was implicated by the king’s uncle, Philip the Bold, in the king’s death, because Philip wanted to be Regent. The masquerade prank was reportedly the king’s idea, and Charles VI chose to cover himself and others in wax. But, Louis was accused of ordering someone to take a torch into where the ball was held. It is, of course, highly doubtful tht Louis even knew of it, but Philip the Bold didn’t need a conviction, he just needed to convince other nobles to support he himself as Regent by casting suspicion on Louis. Philip noted that Louis had almost been killed by the king during Charles VI’s first attack of insanity. Philip claimed that this was because Charles VI had known that Louis wanted to kill him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Louis, on the other hand, believed Philip was usurping the role as regent for Charles VII in the same way that Philip and others had done for Charles V when he was a minor after Philip’s brother John died. Philip had also assumed control when the king had his attack of insanity. When Philip claimed that Louis had tried to kill the king, Louis was really furious. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Louis retorted that Charles VI could not have been in his right mind and that if he had been, he would have known he didn’t want to kill his brother. Therefore, if Philip was claiming the king had been in his right mind, then Philip was the usurper.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Louis then had King Charles VII and his sisters kidnapped from Philip’s care, claiming that Philip was a danger to them. Louis wound up getting a number of nobles on his side, too, considering that he was the late king’s brother, not Philip.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Philip had enough people on his side because of the king’s death and odd circumstances of the torch bearer, though, that he managed to kidnap the children back.(2)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Louis claimed that Philip had endangered the life of the infant king by kidnapping him – even though he’d done it first – and sent someone to try to kidnap them again. That person failed, and Louis was imprisoned.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The imprisoning of Louis, in turn, made Isabeau, the late king’s wife, really mad, and that in turn added to rumors that Louis had been having an affair with the queen. She and those loyal to her got together and sprung Louis out of prison.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That was too much for Philip’s son, John, who ordered Louis murdered late in 1393; it was carried out to look like a band of robbers had done it.(3)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] There were still some supporters of Louis, though, who wanted Philip gone. They appealed to Philip’s older brother’s son, Louis II of Naples, and Philip’s surviving brother, John, Duke of Berry, who would be more likely to be able to help as Louis II of Naples was only 16 and too busy trying to ensure he wasn’t dethroned in Naples.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]While it was true that the king’s brother Louis had lived a very extravagant lifestyle and had been taking from the French treasury for that, supporters of the late Louis argued that Philip was funneling the French treasury all to Burgundy. The Duke of Berry tried to talk with Philip the Bold and convince him to restore some of the money taken earlier - or at least to stop diverting so much. France, he argued, needed to remain strong; he reminded Philip of the terrible Battle of Poiters, and how France had suffered.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] With Louis of Naples threatening to send an army to fight in France, some concessions were made which satisfied people for now. However, Philip’s position was far from secure, and there were other rumors about what had happened and who really brought in the torch.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But, Charles VII was reigning with Philip as Regent, Louis II was busy in Naples, and that didn’t matter because the boy – Charles VI’s only surviving son – could easily grow up to be a great king. He could reign for 40, maybe even 50 years like Edward III had in England, and kick the English out, everyone said. Another truce had been signed, this one a bit more favorable to England, since the Burgundians tended to favor the English when it pleased them. And yet, when Charles VII obtained his majority, he would be able to defeat the English.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Or not. As it turned out, Charles VII died in 1401.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John II of England had died in 1399, with Henry IV succeeding him. As part of the truce, John had pushed for a marriage between Henry and Charles VI’s oldest daughter. There weren’t many brides available who were of marrying age and a couple kings, after the break with Rome, insisted they wouldn’t want their daughters to accept the “strange church” of the English, although with a Pope still in Avignon it wasn’t quite as problematic.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Charles VI of France’s oldest daughter wouldn’t be able to bear an heir for a number of years, which was true of a number of others, too, such as Herman II of Hesse’s oldest daughter, though she was a couple years older than the French candidate, Isabella. In fact, Isabella’s mother was widowed and considered as a possible bride for Henry IV, as Isabeau was only 24 when the future Henry IV’s first wife died in 1394 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]However, Isabella could clearly bear an heir to the French throne if something happened to Charles VII; that’s what swayed them to bring Isabella to England. The future king treated her very tenderly, knowing the age difference would be rough and that her and her mother’s support would be very helpful in letting him stake his claim to France.(4)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In the meantime, Henry’s only daughter, Elisabeth, was 12 when he was crowned Henry IV of England – Elizabeth was older than her stepmother! Elizabeth was declared heir to the throne, but she’d been betrothed to the younger of the Mortimer sons in an attempt to divide them and conquer, for if the older rebelled claiming the throne by his own right and because he was married to John II’s illegitimate daughter, he would be taking the throne from his younger brother. The older brother died in battle, however, against the Welsh rebels, so if Henry IV and Isabella didn’t produce a son, Elizabeth would be Queen and Edmund King of England, with nobody else really able to stake an easy Mortimer claim. Roger had not produced any offspring before his death, a death which some argued was planned.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When Charles VII of France died, Henry IV was more concerned about France. However, that wasn’t the only place where things were changing rapidly. In Southeastern Europe and the Middle East, that crusade mentioned earlier had some dramatic effects as well, considiering that so few did take part in it. It would have lasting effects for the entire region.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]----------------[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](1) OTL one of the ladies noticed him and protected him with her gown.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](2) This kidnapping occurred OTL back and forth, though it would be earlier here.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](3) John the Fearless did this 14 years later OTL, but there is ample reason for him to do it earlier here, namely: 1. Two kidnapping attempts of the King himself, one successful, not just of the Dauphin; 2. The death of the previous king; 3. Trumped up charges that Louis had killed said king; and, 4. The fact that Louis as yet had no heirs, so John could try one day to become king if something did happen, which he tried in 1415, taking an army into Paris.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](4) As Richard II did OTL when marrying her for similar reasons, though her father was still likely to have an heir. John II would be making sure of Henry’s support, as he may have OTL with Richard, and OTL Henry was even willing to have her marry the future Henry V, but she refused.[/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]Part 5 – Travails of Talking Trash To Tiimur[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The Pope – the one in Rome, that is – had thought that an old fashioned Crusade against the Ottomans would be just the thing to bring European kingdoms together in 1394. He found France too busy and England just too despising of him to send many men, though a few French solders went.(1) They arrived to fight the Battle of Nicopolis in summer of 1396.(2)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] It was a terrible slaughter as the Ottomans under Sultan Bayezid won in a rout.(3) Philip of Artois, Count of Eu, was killed at Nicopolis with a lot of the small French force he was leading.(4) Ottoman sources wrote that, “Our armies did not see a tenth of the death the Europeans did.” The sultan was greatly enthused, as they not only defeated the Bulgarians but looked ready to possibly even take Constantinople by the year 1400.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Bayezid was already overly confident and kept badmouthing Timur the Lame – or Tamerlane – anyway, but now it was worse. The Sultan kept badmouthing him after one battle, and so Tamerlane returned to fight him again, this time showing no mercy in 1402, as Bayezid and all of his sons were killed in battle.(5) Once Tamerlane was through, the remnants of the Ottoman Empire in Europe faced serious problems, and Ottomans in Asia were no more. To Europeans, it seemed fitting – “live by the sword, die by the sword,” they said, recalling stories of how fierce the bloodshed had been at Nicopolis.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But, not only was there the question of who would replace them in Anatolia when Tamerlane died a few years later, there was the question of who was strong enough to root out the remaining Ottoman forces?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As it turned out, the Catholics weren’t united yet, but they didn’t have to be.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] While Bulgaria had been conquered, there was a small resistance movement led by Constantine II of Bulgaria.(6) With the help of Serbian and Wallachian allies, the Bulgarians began fighting with greater confidence, and the lack of reinforcement led to Muslim groups in that area slowly being whittled down over a period of years. Bulgaria was achieving its freedom, but it was a different kind of freedom.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] No longer was it a freedom just of one king over another. A strong sense of identity had been developed in this time period as the Bulgarians developed something akin to what would later be considered national pride. While it wasn’t nearly the Nationalism of later eras, Bulgaria was not the only place where the citizens would begin to feel a sense of patriotism that stretched beyond loyalty to a monarch. In other parts of the Balkans, Muslims were rooted out,a nd the last of the Ottoman forces were exiled, never to threaten Europe again and causing surges of national pride in a few other places.(7)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Meanwhile, the Near East was a big mess. The Karaminids slowly began to grow their empire over the decades, but there were battles waged there over that, and Egypt and others would do some mopping up, so that Europe had time to regain tis footing and not be threatened by the Ottomans anymore[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Once they were strong enough, half a century later, to dominate Anatolia, the Karaminids would focus on Asia almost out of necessity as the Bulgarians grew; Burlgaria’s War for Freedom, as they termed it, ended in victory in 1424 as the last of the Ottomans was driven out of Europe. They would be vassals in the Karaminid empire or in Egypt.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Meanwhile, the English continued to fight for control of France. With Charles VII gone, Henry IV felt he – and, especially, his son – would have a great claim to the throne. Things weren’t nearly as easy as they appeared, though.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--------------------------------[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](1) OTL quite a lot of French and English went on the journey, but as noted, things are less table in France and the English want nothing to do with crusades for Rome.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](2) Fewer men combine with the pope’s greater urgency because of his desire to try to get the French to think about something other than infighting combined to make it logistically a bit easier and a bit earlier.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](3) In other words, a greater victory than OTL, one that does not see the sultan grieving over so many of his own soldiers slain on the battlefield. They will suffer and die in battle later instead.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](4) OTL he was captured and held for ransom, dying later.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](5) The sultan’s attitude was one of the reasons Tamerlane attacked, here his victory disease would make it worse and his men would fight harder, too, rather than give up, figuring they could win easily. The terrible bloodshed spoken of at Nicopolis by Muslim writers would instead be witnessed and written about after these battles, where precious few Ottomans survived.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](6) This existed OTL, and the attempted revolt wasn’t crushed till the late 1420s.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](7) In other words, the massive slaughters that some on these boards estimated took a million lives won’t happen TTL, leading to a number of stronger nations.[/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]Part 6 – The War of French Succession[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] When we last left France, Charles VI had died in a horrible accident while covered in wax, his brother had died later that year by assassins posing as robbers, and poor Charles VII had to settle for dying of a normal disease in 1401 at age 9. With both of Charles V’s sons dead without male issue, things got weird. Well, okay, maybe not as weird as a king dying covered in wax, but wars of succession are generally quite convoluted, anyway.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The line went back to John II of France, or John the Good – irony which was not lost on one court member who said, “The issue of John II are fighting over control of France; and, it’s not just our John II, but England’s John II, too. I pray no other John II is reigning in Europe right now, or his sons will also want a chance at the crown.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] After Charles V had come Louis, Duke of Anjou. His son, Louis II of Naples, was rightfully King Louis XI of France, according to Salic Law. His next oldest brother, John, Duke of Berry, was still alive and trying to play peacemaker and not succeeding very well. Finally, there was Philip II, Duke of Burgundy. Henry IV of England claimed the throne on the same basis as his grandfather, Edward III, had, but also claimed it for his wife, Isabella, whom he hoped would have a son so that he would have an even nearer claim; Isabella was, after all, the eldest surviving child of Charles VI, so by semi-Salic Law, where a male could inherit the throne through a female if no male heirs were available otherwise, Isabella and Henry’s son – if they had one - would inherit the throne.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Of course, France didn’t have semi-Salic Law, but he figured they could be persuaded if he got an army big enough.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Louis’ forces, the Armagnacs, and the Burgundians of Philip clashed often. Henry IV and Isabella finally consummated their marriage in summer of 1404 and waited. The soon-to-be 15-year-old Isabella became pregnant, and there was great joy in England! Sure, she suffered quite a bit in her pregnancy, but she had grown to be comfortable with Henry, at least, and even converted to the Church of England, despite her mother’s protests that Isabella was being too easily influenced, given her youth. Eventually, Isabella delivered a healthy baby boy, named Henry. Henry IV had a male heir now![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]However, she died in childbirth.(1)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] England was devastated. Word was allowed to leak out of the king’s “devastating illness” as a way to show how overcome he was at the loss.(2) Isabeau was very torn as far as what to do – her daughter dead, she considered a variety of options, including going back to France or even marrying Henry IV. No decision was made right away given her grief, though.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Instead, the French factions fought on despite the fact that now, if Henry IV ever recovered from his illness, he might come and claim the throne for the infant Henry V. Philip the Bold’s son, John the Fearless, was becoming even more aggressive than Philip had been in claiming the throne for himself, because Louis had his own problems.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] He’d been ousted from Naples by his rival, Ladislaus, in 1399, a year before marrying his wife Yolande – which gave him a possible inroads to the Aragon succession, too. He found his money spread a little thin as he tried to rally support for him as king of France, even though he was the rightful Louis XI. Paris seemed to go back and forth for a while, but eventually John the Fearless’ forces lost their hold on things.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] First, of course, was the fact that Louis XI was the rightful king, so nobles supported him. Second, income from Burgundy could only provide so much. Finally, John the Fearless’s younger brothers died in battle in 1410 in a massive invasion by the English which set the stage for the next round of the war. The Burgundians returned to simply supporting the English.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] What had happened was this: Henry IV had been very ill in June of 1405, once in 1406 and 1408, and then during the winter of 1408-9. As he recovered in 1409, he felt it a sign of Divine favor, and began mounting an army. When his illness didn’t spring up again as it had in 1408 after some planning, he made his move, invading France in 1410 to claim the throne and force a treaty recognizing him and his heirs as the rightful kings of France.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The battles had been rough before, with more minor nobility deaths such as Guy II de Montmorency-Laval in 1403. However, John the Fearless’ brothers and numerous other high ranking Frenchmen died in the large battles which took place as Henry IV marched through the land in summer of 1410, feeling it was his last chance to grab the French throne himself before his death. The terribly destructive battle took a large toll on both sides. A few of Henry V’s potential rivals died, including Edmund Mortimer. However, Henry IV was victorious after a fight in which both sides took devastating losses.(3)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Henry IV pressed on, but knew his forces were weak. John the Fearless had been wounded, and Louis XI’s forces shattered. Finally, an agreement was reached wherein Louis XI would renounce all claims to the North of France, and he would will the Kingdom of France to Henry V as the son of Charles VI’s oldest daughter.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Meanwhile, Louis XI died in 1417, leaving his son at nearly age 14 to reign as King Louis XII of France; he was crowned that September, and then also given the crown of Naples by the Roman pope, who hoped that someday, Louis XII could rule over both.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Louis XII wondered if he would ever fully see either, though. His father had seen very little of Paris in his lifetime as king.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]-----------------------[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](1) She died in childbirth a few years later OTL, so given probably fragile health, and the increased danger of pregnancy anyway at such a young age, this is likely to happen here, too, with her being years younger. She delivered a healthy girl OTL, but Henry IV had 4 boys in a row at first, so it’s logical that she’d bear a baby boy.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](2) This is around when he became very ill OTL with something, though its uncertain what. It will be linked with his grieving a lot more here, with ideas such as OTL’s leprosy downplayed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](3) Not as easy a win as Agincourt OTL without the heavy rain, but with much more time to train, Henry IV would be at least a good commander, and the division in French forces would hurt them. Shiloh would be a good comparison, or maybe Poitiers.[/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]Part 7 – “Rome for the Eternal, France for the Mortal”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Louis XI of France/II of Naples was engrossed in fighting for the right to rule his country. When the Roman Pope sent for help in 1409, he declined, unable to send many men with his sole focus on France; true, this was during the period when Henry IV was still building a large army, but Louis was still fighting John the Fearless at this stage. He would have to accept for now that Ladislaus was ruling Naples, as he had been since 1399, in fact, when he’d been preferred by the pope over Louis. It was here he made his famous quote, “Rome for the eternal, France for the mortal,” a way to try to offer peace with his supporting the Avignon Pope otherwise. He would support Rome if that would help him against the English, but presently he needed help himself, despite the needs of his own allies in Italy.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Louis changed his tune somewhat when the English beat him handily, and went back to the Avignon pope for the time being.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Louis XI had been wary of leaving France to relieve his allies from the attacks of Ladislaus, and so Ladislaus had been able to gain significant victories, though other Italian states continued to fight him. Louis XI had spent much of his treasury trying to fight the English, so it had been hard for him to ever send forces to fight Ladislaus.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thankfully Ladislaus’ pockets weren’t unlimited, either.(1) When Ladislaus died, after a while Louis XI of France – and then his son, Louis XII - was again named King of Naples.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]However, Joanna, Ladislaus’ sister was reigning there while the French tried to keep the English from taking all of France. She refused to give up. She only died without issue years later.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Meanwhile, Henry IV died in 1413, leaving the 8-year-old Henry V to reign as King of England and France. Henry IV had married a 3rd time in late 1409, this time to an English noblewoman for the money as much as to produce another heir, but he was unsuccessful at producing another heir, perhaps partly because disease had taken its toll. Henry V wound up inheriting quite a bit more since his stepmother had adopted him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Elizabeth would be his regent, and work with several men to groom the new king. An alliance was attempted with the Portuguese through marriage, but negotiations failed. Then, the Norwegians were approached, but their queen maintained a strict policy of neutrality in the Hundred Years’ War, and the English had wanted their help in attacking France. So, talks shifted back to Portugal, where Isabella, the King of Portugal’s only surviving daughter, was still unmarried. Hence, an agreement was made and they married in 1420, with him 15 and her in her early 20s.(2) While Henry V was under the Regency, he studied the art of war and prepared to eventually capture all of France. The English maintained enough of a presence that – while costly – they didn’t face too serious of a problem. In fact, they offered to let the Burgundian leader be Henry V’s regent in Paris, which he accepted. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]However, a marriage of alliance in 1415 between Philip the Good - the eventual ruler of Burgundy for almost 50 years – and Louis XI’s daughter Marie of Anjou, complicated things for the English. Philip would vacillate between supporting England and supporting France to improve his position, doing whichever seemed best at the time. Thus, Burgundy reached its height. This helped Louis XII at times, but at other times he desperately needed more consistent allies. Although, it’s said that his mother, Yolande, had done as much as Joan of Arc had, if not more, in saving France – but because it was over a longer period it wasn’t noticed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Louis XII married Margaret of Savoy in 1424, while Rene, his brother, married Isabella, Duchess of Lorraine. It was hoped that this would help to develop alliances that would hold much more stability than the Burgundian one.(3)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The antipope Alexander V had been dismayed back in 1409 that Louis hadn’t been able to send for help, but he understood. He went about seeking firmer allies himself, but his death in early 1410 prevented him from doing so. That left only two popes, one in Rome and one in Avignon. Sigismund of Luxembourg, King of Hungary and Croatia, had been supporting the Roman one and considered war against France himself. However, the French didn’t care. They knew the pope would support them on principle against the English, especially after the disaster of 1410 when Henry IV managed to force a treaty favoring his young son as the King of France once Louis XI died. In the end, Sigismund continued his battles in the East, flushing out the Ottomans and trying to expand the borders of Hungary and Croatia(4) when he wasn’t trying to bring peace to the Catholic church by ending the schism with the Council of Constance.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] This upset some in Rome, however, because they perceived it at allowing the Schism to continue – there would be antipopes into at least the 1420s. They wanted to root out the Avignon Papacy and all those who supported it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In the end, as Louis XII (and Yolande) continued to fight, though, they came over more and more to the side of the Roman pope. The Council of Constance had been a help in bringing an end to the Schism, anyway, and a series of almost Divine events seemed to be coming out of the area they controlled.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The French skirmished with the English as the latter tried to move south, with Henry V reaching his majority in the 1420s and trying to lead his armies as “rightful King of France” to take the whole country. However, the encouragement and leadership of a dynamic young girl named Joan of Arc provided a great counter to Henry V.(5)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Louis XII was dubbed Louis the Determined not only for his fight against the English and the dramatic Battle of Orleans - which he won in 1429 with Joan of Arc’s help - but for his attempt to be a good king both in France and in Naples. He wasn’t there often, but he did well there. He and Margaret had several children once the marriage was consummated in the mid-1420s(6), and had a few years together. He utilized Rene as a regent for Naples, but didn’t wish to split the kingdoms. This, sadly, led to Louis being in Naples in 1434 when he died of malaria.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rene the Good, his brother, had already held a number of other titles, with his wife being Duchess of Lorraine, too. As the French slowly reclaimed all their territory, kicking the English out in 1453, France became one of the leading powers in Europe. Rene was Regent for Louis XII’s only son, Louis XIII, till he reached his majority. However, Louis XIII died in 1455 with the famous last words, “At least France is whole once more.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rene was now King Rene I of France and Naples, too, along with Duke of Lorraine. French possession of Naples meant they were becoming a major power, and this caused more of stir than when France and Lorraine wound up entering into continual union a few years later.(7)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ironically, Good King Rene’s sons all died in battle or of various diseases, and the only grandson to survive him died in 1483 without male issue. This grandson, Louis, had been Louis XIV and had served for 3 years. Afterward, the throne of France would pass to a distant relative. Since the Burgundian line had died out, this meant going all the way back to descendants of Louix IX of France. The young Francis was only 13, but would serve as King Francis of France till his early death in 1495, though his son, Carles, would reign for over 40 years, till 1537.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Meanwhile, events in Eastern Europe were also causing quite a stir. Bulgaria wasn’t the only nation developing a sense of nationalism. Like France and England, Bohemia was slowly gaining its own identity, because word of Lollard success had inspired followers of Jan Huss.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]-----------------------[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot](1) In fact, he captured Louis’ treasure ship at one point, which doesn’t happen here because Louis is too busy with France to attack Ladislaus.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](2) These arrangements happened OTL, except that Isabella was not returned to because of the deal with Charles VI’s OTL daughter, who is not born here. Since the kingdom of England has a firmer hold on France, such a move is seen as unnecessary, and therefore they return to Isabella to strengthen the bond, even though that’s her first cousin. She didn’t marry till she was 30 OTL, very late for a royal marriage, but here it’s earlier, Phiilip the Good has a spouse who will live much longer than his OTL one at this point.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](3) OTL marriages still make sense here, as they try to shore up their positions as the now-ruling house of France and gain support for their resistance against England.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](4) OTL he joined an alliance with England against France after Agincourt.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](5) Not impossible she’d be born, using minimal butterflies; it’s not like she was union of a peasant from one end of France and one from another who couldn’t meet here. Of course, if you want some other random peasant girl to be the one, feel free. :)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](6) The marriage begins earlier here because as King of France he’s a more desirous partner than OTL when he’s simply King of Naples.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](7) Just as France and Navarre did OTL in the early 1600s.[/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]Part 8 – Bohemian Rhapsody[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Jan Huss and his followers had been inspired by Wycliffe in some ways. Of course, his own reading of the Bible had helped greatly, as he, too, believed in the priesthood of the believer rather than relying on worldly priests. However, the new Church of England caused Hus and his followers to consider the importance of having a national identity, with one specific plan rather than a mixture of radical and conservative elements like they had.(1)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] They knew they would face battles. The Holy Roman Emperor had responded to King John II’s claims of tampering for his his first wife had died in 1394 proclaiming a flurry of anathemas against him, and the pope in Rome had suggested a crusade against him in the early 1400s, going so far as to say the king’s illness in 1405 was the wrath of God upon him – something Pope Gregory XII continued to claim this, then found himself forced to back down on his claims that “God would never bless the English” when King Henry IV won huge victories for the English against France in 1410, forcing the agreement that his son, Henry V, would be the heir as the surviving son of Charles VI’s oldest daughter.(2)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] He backed down in part because he felt like perhaps this was a judgment against the pope in Avignon. When with Gergory’s death in 1415 the office of Pope became vacant – and would be for over 2 years – furor against England gradually wore down as the Archbishop of Canterbury boldly proclaimed that at least England had a leader for its church.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] While England had been sheltered by the English Channel, as well as by the Schism, the Hussites had neither thing to distract their enemies. Their victories over armies which came in to fight them were surprising to Church leaders, but as time has gone on, it appears that part of their success was the beginning of their identity as a nation – the Kingdom of Bohemia, a land which didn’t need any outside church ruling its internal affairs.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] What were the beliefs of that Church, though; that was the main question. As word came about what was going on in England, it was revealed that Lollards were not really associated with the Church of England, though that Church had adopted quite a bit of Lollardy, albeit in an ecclesiastical hierarchy and with not all of it adopted.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]However, vital parts were - salvation by grace through faith, the importance of individual faith, and so on.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] While Jan Hus had been martyred, his followers, such as Jan Zizka, began to look to the rising Lollard movement and, inspired also by the Bulgarian revolt, a sense of Bohemian nationalism began to emerge. Perhaps, by adopting their own tenets of faith similar to Lollardy, they could, as the English had, establish their own state church. It would be much closer to the Hussites than the Church of England ws to Lollardy, but it would still be similar to what the Lollards had been doing. Indeed, Lollards were infiltrating English churches more and more.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In the early 1420s, a plan was made to raise someone to the throne of Bohemia who was willing to be a Hussite; the Jagiellons of Poland aided in this.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Hedwig/Jadwiga, oldest daughter of Vladislaw II of Poland, and originally seen as potential Queen of Poland for a while till her brother was born, was a symbol of this. Wladislaw II had converted to Catholicism but still had ties to Russian Orthodoxy, and given problems he still had with the Teutonic Knights even after his conversaion, he was open to at least accepting some level of religious freedom. This, in turn, meant she was willing to convert to the Church of England. When a brother wasn’t born right away and she was the clear favorite to be Queen, Henry V’s regents sought to marry her to an English prince in order to prevent any problems for Henry V, who they were looking at a Burgundian match for, though a few German states in the North had begun to see movement toward the new Lollardism, partly because the Bible was being written in the vernacular in some places.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]This was a sign of the growing tension against Catholics, tension which, now that their schism was finally ending, the Church tried to stamp out. However, events in bohemia were creating a major distraction. The Hussites kept winning wars against the Crusaders who tried to conquer them. Then, in one battle, Jan Ziska was wounded and – as he recovered from his head wound – he decided it would be best if he become king and let Procopius, wo had taken over, be the lead general. Ziska would still provide some support, but it was felt he should unite the factions as they were calling for him.(3)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Still, As King Jan tried to make negotiations between factions of the Hussites, he found himself making more friends with Poland than with some of his own troops, who were more bloodthirsty than he was.(4) He feared that his new “kingdom” wouldn’t last if his men continued to act like this.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In England, hwoever, there was a model he could use – a Church of England which functioned spate from Rome and which taught the people with an eye toward showing Jesus Christ’s love, without the “eye for an eye” rashness that his men seemed to have. True, their king, Henry V, was fighting for temporal things, but he reasoned that Henry V had a claim to the throne of France and it was oly reasonable that he should try to grabe it. He preferred more Heavenly rewards, but he could, at least, an an ally to the Engldh – and the Poles.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Without the Turks being united and ravaging Southeastern Europe, that region remained stronger, but this meant there were regions the Catholic Church wished to convert, and some Orthodox leaders tried to work deals with the English for help. It wasn’t forthcoming – England was too busy with France – but one thing could be used.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Greek texts were shipped to the English, because of this printing press which had been recently invented, during the 1410s and 1420s. A Bible began to be printed not with a translation from the Latin Vulgate but from the original Greek from Antiochan texts, as well as from the original Hebrew for the Old Testament from that area.(5)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]This was one of the things which the Catholic Church was really livid about. They wanted control over the masses. However, the more they fought, as with their wars aainst the Hussites, the more they seemed to fall behind. Not only had the English Church left the fold, but Lollards and other believers were springing up in Burgundy as the 1420s wore on. Eventually, a treaty was considered allowing the Hussites to practice their faith, but while the Church might have been willing to accept the more moderate Utraquists who wanted the whole congregation to take of the win and not just the priest during communion, there were still prominent members of the Hussites, thanks to their new Bibles in the vernacular, who were claiming that the bread and wine were merely symbols and didn’t represent the literal body and blood of Christ.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Meanwhile, as the conflict over interpretations and the role of the Church in Bohemia continued to rage, Bulgarian independence from the last of the Ottomans was achieved – the Turks were forced to flee into Anatolia and after a while be absorbed intot he Karaminids, who would focus on consolidating power in Asia. Europe was free of the Ottoman threat, but the new nation of Bulgaria, while Christian, seemed more concerned with where it stood as a nation than with its faith, under the leadership of Constantine II.(6)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]A brave new world was clearly developing in Europe, a small spark that was fomenting not only reform, and also the rise of nationalism. And, who knew where that would lead. The Reformation had, by 1450, grown to had a lock on England and substantial elements of different Bible-based churches, rather than hierarchy based, in Burgundy, Scandinavia, Polaand, Bohemia,a nd a number of Northern Germany states, and even in France, even as the French pushed the English off the Continent.(7)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]-----------------------[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](1) OTL, while inspired by Wycliffe, there was a great disparity in what Hussites believed, which wound up harming them in the long run, though even as it was they managed to win quite a bit in the Hussite Wars, partly because of a divided Church.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](2) OTL Henry V won this stage of the Hundred Years’ War, but here the battles are staged earlier, and while not quite as decisive at first, the English eventually win.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]*3) OTL Zizka was wounded and lost an eye.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](4) Indeed, he was known for his mercy and kindness to prisoners.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](5) In other words, what Erasmus did OTL, with a number of things which led to OTL’s King James Bible.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](6) Nationalism as a concept at this stage is still growing slowly, but that is how it would be seen, anyway, I think.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](7) In other words, somewhat similar to how it grew OTL, with nations closest to Rome staying Catholic and the main exception being Poland-Lithuania, which starts to have more religious freedom because the king would have so recently converted from Russian orthodox.[/FONT]

_________________________________________________

And, that's all I have.

So, someone can take it from there or even tweak things with the Bohemiams or the French Civil War; I just found it and, having sort of lot interest and any ideas, tidied up Part 7, added to and rounded out Part 8, and that was it.
The key is that a Reformation similar to our Protestant one does happen in TTL, and English nd French history are drastically changed. With the Karamanids ruling Anatolia after a few more decades, and from what others said in antoher thread they would focus on Asia, not Europe, European history, too, is radically altered.

So, go at it, have fun with it, whoever decides to do this TL much more in depth.

Thanks to all - I might have a few short or medium baseball ones but for now, I want to work on other projects, plus "Not By Might, But By Right," a Print On Demand book, is one I want to finish and be able to get up on lulu.com at least by the time spring hits. It's *got* to get warmer by then, doesn't it?:) You'll see it, just keep watching the "store" in my sig where I like to "My lulu.com books" (Though you can also find them elsewhere, though after being up on lulu it takes a while for eslewhere)

Thanks for reading and I hope you've enjoyed it.
 
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