A more successful Japanese economy

RousseauX

Donor
Spain and To a lesser extent Italy do have one big similarity with japan. The issue that I think is the biggest factor in their poor birth rates- a culture which is traditionally very tightly tied around extended families and village life, but a country which in the course of the last century underwent a rapid move to the cities.


I really don't think it's as big a deal for the Europeans but for the Japanese this is a major factor in their failing to get relationships. In japan people don't just go out to pubs and meet new people. Most people keep the same friends from school all throughout their life. It is all based around groups.
With everyone leaving the smaller cities and country to head to tokyo et al for work though these groups fall apart. The remaining traditional group of the company is an ever more serious and non frivolous place.

Germany has birth rates similar to Japan as well.

So does Poland

So does Greece

So does Austria

So does Hungary

Portugal's fertility rate is significantly lower than Japan's.

In fact, no European nation has a >2.1 fertility rate, and they would probably even be lower once you take out their immigrant populations.

You guys are buying way too much into the "Japanese are weird people who don't get laid" thing which you saw on reddit as a determinant of fertility rate. People who have sex wear condoms and have abortions and end up with pretty much the same result.
 
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You guys are buying way too much into the "Japanese are weird people who don't get laid" thing which you saw on reddit as a determinant of fertility rate. People who have sex wear condoms and have abortions and end up with pretty much the same result.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
 

RousseauX

Donor

RousseauX

Donor
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

No, it's really not, not anymore than the truth about man-made climate change being somewhere in the middle between the claims of climate change deniers and 99% of scientists who studies climate change.

People who never looked at global data or demographics gets sucked into the belief that Japanese culture is responsible because it makes for a better story.

Unless someone wants to tell me about how Hungarians and Portuguese are herbivores who don't want to have sex or something which is why their fertility rate are lower than Japan's.
 
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Only Iceland comes close to replacement with 2.08, and that's with rather unique circumstances. Icelandic women tend to have their first kids early, around the time they are undergraduates in university, and not only is the welfare system generous but the family and friends will not hesitate to pitch in if necessary. This combination of individualism, non-hierarchical/non-tribal collectivism, and altruism isn't exactly common among societies.
 
No, it's really not, not anymore than the truth about man-made climate change being somewhere in the middle between the claims of climate change deniers and 99% of scientists who studies climate change.

People who never looked at global data or demographics gets sucked into the belief that Japanese culture is responsible because it makes for a better story.

Unless someone wants to tell me about how Hungarians and Portuguese are herbivores who don't want to have sex or something which is why their fertility rate are lower than Japan's.

I certainly won't deny that Japan has all the first-world benefits of birth control, abortion and condoms. But, I mean, hikikomori is exclusive to Japan. I'm not saying their aren't any examples of similar phenomena in the world, but if it didn't have to do with culture you'd hear about examples of hikikomori in the world, right?
 
Okay, maybe I'm not improving the Japanese economy. Even so, it'd be cool to do something to raise the HDI.
 
I certainly won't deny that Japan has all the first-world benefits of birth control, abortion and condoms. But, I mean, hikikomori is exclusive to Japan. I'm not saying their aren't any examples of similar phenomena in the world, but if it didn't have to do with culture you'd hear about examples of hikikomori in the world, right?

Isn't that very similar to avoidant personality disorder and social anxiety disorder both of which are very common? hell I remember half the shows targeted for teenagers when I was growing up having someone being like "Oh no what if they don't like me! my life is over!!!!1!!!11!!"
 
Japan took a long time to make necessary reforms to their economic system post 1989. The banks maintained significant direct investments in companies which masked ownership. The cross ownership and other regulatory oversight limited the competitive pressures that normally would force companies to make drastic changes to their corporate structure. Their employment laws, effectively lifetime employment, made it difficult to streamline operations and realign businesses. The effect was to create zombie companies where people were employed and there was production but the companies were no longer effectively competing. And the country never really transitioned from an export driven economy to one balanced between production and consumption. All through the 90's everytime they would make reforms, further efforts were stalled by a brief economic rebound, allowing the various stakeholders to deceive themselves into believing further reforms were necessary only to then face another downturn. The consumption issue is, from my understanding, the result of the population growth relative to the manufacturing base although central bank policies and the disinflation they have experienced probably contribute. Anyway, here's host of issues that, with minor changes, could yield vastly improved results.

Oh, and having a more competitive China, Vietnam, Mexico, and other places probably doesnt help.
 

RousseauX

Donor
I certainly won't deny that Japan has all the first-world benefits of birth control, abortion and condoms. But, I mean, hikikomori is exclusive to Japan. I'm not saying their aren't any examples of similar phenomena in the world, but if it didn't have to do with culture you'd hear about examples of hikikomori in the world, right?
First of all, you do, the basement dwelling neckbeard is a pretty common stereotype in America for example.

I'm not following your argument though, I'm arguing that birth control makes this largely irrelevant because people have kids when they plan to.
 
First of all, you do, the basement dwelling neckbeard is a pretty common stereotype in America for example.

Well, it's not as simple as an adult living in his own household. In Japan dependence is a lot more accepted in family relationships, as young men often never move out of their houses, and women usually stay until marriage.
 
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