A more Southern-oriented China

IOTL, China's capitals would mainly be in the West (Chang'an, Luoyang...), the South (Nanjing) or the north (Beijing). What if China had a capital further South, say Canton? How much harder would it be to rule the north from Canton than ruling the South from Beijing? Would this result in expansion into Southeast Asia due to this new China's maritime culture?
 
Have a more successful northern peoples dominate the area (Mongols, Turks, Jurchen, Xiongnu, etc.), manage to keep the area and prevent easy reconquest by China.
 
Have a more successful northern peoples dominate the area (Mongols, Turks, Jurchen, Xiongnu, etc.), manage to keep the area and prevent easy reconquest by China.
But how do you prevent the conquerers from considering themselves Chinese (OTL) and then proceeding to unify China?
 
Chu victory in the Chu-Han Contention could do this. The incompetency and boiling-people-alive of Xiang Yu could lead to the northern provinces to separate completely leaving Chu's main influence primarily in the Yangtze region.

Mostly I just want to see Xiang Yu become Emperor/Hegemon.
Because he's Xiang Yu.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
But how do you prevent the conquerers from considering themselves Chinese (OTL) and then proceeding to unify China?

Presumably, you'd need a conquering people with enough strength to take the north of OTL China - and to hold it for a considerable time - but lacking the capacity or the will to take the south as well. If China were to be divided in this way for long enough, the north might well orient (...septentrionate?) itself towards the cultural region of the conquerors, while the south (just as unable to retake the north as the north is to take the south) instead casts its gaze further southward. There were (some say are, but I can't speak to that) of course cultural differences bewtween north and south. The north would presumably be more integrated in the horse culture of the northern steppe peoples, and have predominantly wheat-based agriculture. The south is territorially unfit for that steppe horse-culture, and might realistically have a more naval attitude than the north is likely to develop. It's agriculture would be more rice-based. If the separation lasts long enough, you'd end up with two very different countries.

Of course, both states might well end up considering themselves the real China, with the rulers of both claiming the mandate of heaven.
 
Because it will influence the rest of China. Rome has a lot of influence in Northern Europe and it will last, unlike in Europe, because the Chinese economy is divided by West/East instead of North/South
The east-west divide only appeared in the Qing dynasty when trade with foreign nations began on a large scale. China is traditionally divided north-south.
 

PhilippeO

Banned
Chinese Civilization must start in Southern China instead of Northern China like Roman Civilization started in Southern Europe.

the result of this wouldn't be China, but greater Vietnam instead. Canton area is dominated by non-chinese people until Sung times. powerful Nan Yue civilization ?
 
Chu victory in the Chu-Han Contention could do this. The incompetency and boiling-people-alive of Xiang Yu could lead to the northern provinces to separate completely leaving Chu's main influence primarily in the Yangtze region.

Mostly I just want to see Xiang Yu become Emperor/Hegemon.
Because he's Xiang Yu.
Even Xiang Yu wouldn't put the capital in Canton.It's too far to the South.Prior to the Song Dynasty,Canton was basically a penal colony.The vast majority of the region south of the Yangtze was a backwater well until the Song Dynasty.
 
Didn't the KMT initially establish their capital in Canton? I know, it's in 1900, but just throwing that out there.
 
the result of this wouldn't be China, but greater Vietnam instead. Canton area is dominated by non-chinese people until Sung times. powerful Nan Yue civilization ?
...although it was said that the Tai peoples were descendants of Nanyue as Vietic languages, a branch of Austroasiatic family, originated in OTL central Laos.
 
But how do you prevent the conquerers from considering themselves Chinese (OTL) and then proceeding to unify China?

The last real opportunity for this would be a more successful (and even bloodier) rebellion in the later Tang dynasty (An Lushan and company) taking over northern, but not southern China and bringing in immense numbers of Sogdian, Turkic and Mongol mercenaries and settlers to repopulate the devastated North.
 
I don't think its possible.
In order to rule China, you need to control Central Chinese Plain politically, militarily and economically. So locating more south than Yangtze is not practical.
Canton is too far from Chinese Plain and doesn't have any access to Chinese Plain.
Also historically no Southern Dynasty united China.
 
Even Xiang Yu wouldn't put the capital in Canton.It's too far to the South.Prior to the Song Dynasty,Canton was basically a penal colony.The vast majority of the region south of the Yangtze was a backwater well until the Song Dynasty.
That may be true but I believe that a lot of that backwater status came from the Han's harsh treatment of the Yueh. This might be butterflied away if Liu Bang never becomes emperor.
 
For much of Chinese history, building a capital south of the Yangtze made as much sense as the US relocating its capital to Boise, Idaho in the 19th century.

It was simply too far from civilization.
 
I don't think its possible.
In order to rule China, you need to control Central Chinese Plain politically, militarily and economically. So locating more south than Yangtze is not practical.
Canton is too far from Chinese Plain and doesn't have any access to Chinese Plain.
Also historically no Southern Dynasty united China.
There has been at least one empire, The Yuan, that controlled all of China from the "barbarian" north with ease. Why (other than the Yuan being Mongols) would ruling from the south by more difficult?
 
Act
There has been at least one empire, The Yuan, that controlled all of China from the "barbarian" north with ease. Why (other than the Yuan being Mongols) would ruling from the south by more difficult?
Mongol Empire ruled Eurasia from Har-horin...
1. Yuan is not Chinese Dynasty. It is successor to Mongol Empire, Kublai Khaan was last accepted (albiet nominally) Great Khaan of Mongol Empire.
2. All the northern barbarian dynasty (Jin, Yuan, Qing) ruled China from Beijin, because their power base was always northern steppe.
3. Unlike far southern regions, Beijin has direct access to Central Chinese Plain by, e.g you can easily conquer China by cavalry till Yangtze.
 
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