A more realistic/plausible Kaiserreich?

Zoidberg12

I've downloaded the Kaiserriech mod for Darkest Hour this past Saturday, and I'm absolutely loving it so far. :D However, the storyline behind the mod does have allot of implausiblities to it. I've actually been familiar with the mythos for a over year and a half already. It seems plausible enough when I was fifteen, but know, not so much. Communist France I can believe, but Communist Britain, and a balkanized Italy, those are both a stretch. Not to mention the situations in Russia and China, and how stretched Germanys power is. Nevertheless, the mod is still a ton of fun. I think those stretches were just for game play quality more than anything else. I mean in terms of plausibility and video game quality, are two plumbers rescuing a princess from a dinosaur king any more realistic? :p No, but that game still rules (Well it has nothing to do with AH but you get what I mean).

So, I was thinking, what would a more realistic version of the story-line look like? This actually isn't the first time I asked myself this. I've actually made this map off a more plausible Kasierreich a few months back.

kaiserreich__legacy_of_the_weltkrieg__redux_by_toonart789-d5q2yye.png


Well thats my take on it. Keep in mind its just a map, I have a basic story behind it, albeit not a full one. France still goes Commie and there is a government in exile, but the British Empire survives as a sort off counter weight to the Germans, the Bolsheviks are sucssesfull, but only in Russia, and the Ottoman Empire is weaker, among other details.

But what do you guys think a more realistic/plausible Kaiserreich timeline would look like? Agree with any of this? Disagree? I admit maybe I could change one or two things. Now that I think about it, maybe we could all collaborate on a Kaiserriech redux timeline. Well mabye, for know this could just be food for thought.

Discuss. :D
 

autonomousoblast

Banned
I agree some bits of KR follow the "rule of cool" but most of it's just there to make the mod fun to play, imo. Should keep that in mind if rewriting the entire TL. Also, my problem is also with some flags in the game, the Russia puppeted Britain flag for instance.
 

Zoidberg12

autonomousoblast said:
I agree some bits of KR follow the "rule of cool" but most of it's just there to make the mod fun to play, imo. Should keep that in mind if rewriting the entire TL. Also, my problem is also with some flags in the game, the Russia puppeted Britain flag for instance.
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I'm probably not going to rewrite the TL any time soon, but I thought this would be an interesting thought. I actually think the originals plot is really cool in itslef. I like the original idea of having the loser nations becoming syndicalist nations and standing up against Germnay and the remnants of the former Entetne empires. Just a cool idea. :D Maybe it could work for a more plausible rewrite, but there may have to be several other earlier pods, for example, for Britain to be desperate enough to turn to radical socialism. Any thoughts?
 

NKVD

First of all, get rid of "syndicalism." The name communism was well-established by 1914, and it's not going to be totally rebranded just because die Deutsches Kaiserreich has won the Great War.

The Second American Civil War struck me as a little bit silly, even at the age of sixteen. Sure, a second American Civil War/American Revolution could happen in that time period, but it's not going to go down the way it does in the scenario.

I don't have any problems with Mitteleuropa or the split France, the latter of which is an acceptable case of "rule of cool" (because it could be plausible). The Chinese faction that's basically a German parallel to the Kramer Associates, however, strikes me as really unlikely.

I haven't played it in years though, and certainly not on DH.
 

NKVD

Also:

In my highly uneducated opinion, the best way to achieve such a crushing victory for Germany would be the Moltke Plan: attack Russia first, swing back to France, and avoid the incursion into Belgium. This would possibly deprive Britain of a cassus belli for entry into the war. And it would mean Belgium's sovereignty would be maintained.
 

autonomousoblast

Banned
XNM said:
First of all, get rid of "syndicalism." The name communism was well-established by 1914, and it's not going to be totally rebranded just because die Deutsches Kaiserreich has won the Great War.
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There is such a thing as Syndicalism, which is exactly what is in KR. It is not a rebranded communism.
 

autonomousoblast

Banned
XNM said:
Still, I can't see it overtaking communism in the radical left with a POD after 1900.
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Syndicalism had quite some supporters, I.W.W. or C.N.T. - F.A.I. for instance. And communism didn't take the place it did IOTL due to a failed Russian revolution.
 

NKVD

autonomousoblast said:
Syndicalism had quite some supporters, I.W.W. or C.N.T. - F.A.I. for instance. And communism didn't take the place it did IOTL due to a failed Russian revolution.
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I doubt the failure of the Bolsheviks would discredit Marxist communism in favour of anarchism (which is what the IWW, CNT, and FAI were, and what syndicalism usually manifests itself as).
 

Faeelin

I think the idea of a syndicalist Britain is a bit implausible, but not impossible. Britain doesn't actually go red until the General Strike, which was worse than in OTL.

But rather htan break up the British Empire, I'd probably turn it into a FWR like in FaBR.
 

lukedalton

Return Italy to pre-unitary state and a Pope with temporal power is ASB and frankly the A-H will destroy itself even more quicker trying to do it.
 

Badshah

Faeelin said:
I think the idea of a syndicalist Britain is a bit implausible, but not impossible. Britain doesn't actually go red until the General Strike, which was worse than in OTL.

But rather htan break up the British Empire, I'd probably turn it into a FWR like in FaBR.
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Nah. In the case of Britain going syndicalism, then it is actually quite possible that the rest of the empire breaks off. I mean Canada had a red scare of its own in the 20s and probably would house the Royal Family and many royal supporters.
 

Faeelin

Badshah said:
Nah. In the case of Britain going syndicalism, then it is actually quite possible that the rest of the empire breaks off. I mean Canada had a red scare of its own in the 20s and probably would house the Royal Family and many royal supporters.
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Sure, Canada and the settler colonies. But India and Africa?
 

Zimmerwald1915

Banned
XNM said:
I doubt the failure of the Bolsheviks would discredit Marxist communism in favour of anarchism (which is what the IWW, CNT, and FAI were, and what syndicalism usually manifests itself as).
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If I remember the timeline correctly, the Bolsheviks did not fail to take power, but rather failed to hold it in the face of German intervention and material support for the Whites. Given that the SPD was all but in government at that point, this would have represented a revolutionary/reformist split within Marxism even more serious than the OTL German Revolution. You're going to get big splits from the SPD, SFIO, and SPI at least. It's not inconceivable that the revolutionary Marxists will look to the revolutionary Syndicalists for allies, though not necessarily organizational partners.

The problem for the Marxists will be that their organizations, especially in France and Italy, will be new. The Tribunists in the Netherlands, and the Independents, Spartakists and International Socialists in Germany, will have had some years of organizational independence and will probably persist, but new splits from the big French and Italian Social Democratic parties will be hard-pressed to maintain themselves as separate organizations from the Syndicalist organizations. I could imagine an Independent/Spartakist/International Socialist merger like OTL, and their federating, along with, say, Bordiga's group in Italy and the American Social Democrats (assuming the Left Wing survives the purge of the Executive, unlike OTL) to a Syndicalist-dominated International centered in Paris.
 
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Analytical Engine

I don't see an independent Slovakia ITTL. Hungary will want to hold on to it, though they may garantee some "special rights" or something.

If Britain does go red (as mentioned earlier, this is not impossible), a few colonies may join up with it, while others end up in the sphere of the imperial government in exile. India will be...interesting, to say the least.
 

Badshah

Faeelin said:
Sure, but if we are making this more plausible...
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Then India would most likely be free. Or at least a state in association with Canada, most likely united, if we're making this plausible, and not divided into three. And if Britain goes through a revolution, it sort of does make sense for Germany to seize what it can.
 

Zoidberg12

Now my thoughts....

I agree a Syndicalist Britain could happen if the circumstances are right, however it will not be a FWR thing like in FaBR. All of her colonies will either declare Independence or end up in the hands of some other nation. India, lets just say I could imagine a Balkans-esque collapse over there. Different Kingdoms, ethnicities and nations all fighting each other for power left by the British, things could get chaotic fast. Germany may intervene, but would they care?

Italy always seemed like the most wonkish country in this mod, along with China. The CP marching on Rome and balkanizing the place couldn't feasibly happen, and Austria-Hungary is no position to try and take any more land. It could go Facist like OTL after losing, but I'm not sure. About Russia, the whites winning could work, but its kinda hard.

France and Britain could be Syndicalist/Radical Socialist and not be necessarily Communist. Thought why Communism gets the moniker of "Totalism" in the mods canon is kinda odd. Since it was already known as Communism for so long, it dosn't make too much sense that the name is changed out off the blue.

I'm actually making a map of a Kaiserriech redux that's more similar to the source material. :D Seriously the one a made months ago looks like some gneeric CP victory map :)p), and actually it could be usefull for that purpose in the future. :cool: Anyway this new map will have the international and Entente, etc. Some areas may remain unchanged, as I'm not sure what to do with them.
 
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