A more realistic Peshawar Lancers

[Valdemar II]

And why is it that EVERYONE in North America and Europe is a cannibal? Wouldn't some tribe notice that it is better to hunt the newly rebuilt animal populations than to eat each other?

Because cannibals is cool (through they also hunt animals) and very pulpish. It my biggest problem with Sterling he can build quite interesting world up, but he sometimes adopt very unlogical aspects for literare reason,Europe is meant to be some kind of dark late 19th century contignent, full of cannibals, lost civilisations, arcane artifact etc. In reality there enough cereal, potatoes and other domesticated plants would survive as semiwild and feral cattle, horses and pigs would also be around, that it would be very easy to restablish agriculture, especially for 19th people, who still had the knowhow, plus the majority of survivers would be rural people. By the 2025 Europes population would likely have reach half of that it was before the fall.

 

[Hawkeye]

And why is it that EVERYONE in North America and Europe is a cannibal? Wouldn't some tribe notice that it is better to hunt the newly rebuilt animal populations than to eat each other?

My guess is
The Fall=dust in atmosphere=cold weather=cant grow enough food=not enough food for animals=cannibalism.
But all in all, your probably right but like Vald said, European cannibals are just cooler.

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

At the time of the Fall,the Union Pacific linked the west coast with the midwest and the Southern Pacific Railroad was past the Sierras and on its way to Tucson, (which it reached IOTL in 1880). Refugees from the increasingly bad weather could have migrated by rail to California, and then by local roads up and down the coast. With its increasing population, the California Republic could have expanded from its capitol at San Francisco across the mountains into Nevada (for its silver mines) and south into Baja and into Arizona (mining, fishing. Also with two of the best ports in the U.S., lots of shipping, agriculture, a burgeoning population and the railroads, somebody like Leland Stanford could have had a very powerful state. Look for future conflicts with the Texas Republic!

The weird thing is that during the Big Game between UC Berkeley and Stanford University, theywould always claim that "the Axe", the trophy that both schools would play for, was from the remains of a meteorite that crash landed in the swampy grasslands outside of Palo Alto (home of Stanford). This little weird trivia tidbit could certainly add to a surreal tribute to Excalibur....

 

[black angel]

Thoughts on the USA, DC would be wiped out, however Ulysses S. Grant is on his world tour at the time, in Japan no less, if any one can save the union one it's the man that did it 13 years before, also we know he wanted to be President again, also the Commanding General of the United States Army is William Tecumseh Sherman Grant's close friend, whose Headquarters is in St. Louis, Missouri far from the wave that will kill the east, sadly we lose Theodore Roosevelt who is at Harvard in 1878.

 

[vultan]

Thoughts on the USA, DC would be wiped out, however Ulysses S. Grant is on his world tour at the time, in Japan no less, if any one can save the union one it's the man that did it 13 years before, also we know he wanted to be President again, also the Commanding General of the United States Army is William Tecumseh Sherman Grant's close friend, whose Headquarters is in St. Louis, Missouri far from the wave that will kill the east, sadly we lose Theodore Roosevelt who is at Harvard in 1878.

Does Teddy take any trips west?

 

[I Blame Communism]

Main things to change:

-Okay, seriously, 2025? While the socioeconomic set-up would be changed a lot, setting the story in the early 20th century, say, would do a lot to justify the anachronistic tech and Flashman-era feel, and that's the most important thing.

-Japan taking over China. Whut? With a large, dense, civilised population in 1878, China may descend into anarchy but no-one is conquering it: they'll be eaten themselves. Here's an idea, though: China, at least initially, collapses into chaos. Japan somehow retains its state organisation and sustains its people by neo-Wokou pillaging of its neighbours.

-Satanist Russians. Orthodox fundamentalism is at least as interesting and way more plausible. They can even display similar brutality towards non-Russians: I'd imagine the waves of superstitious peasants descending on the Crimea and Caucasus egged on by doom-preachers would be eager to "punish" the native Muslims, and the new Russia could become somewhat desensitised to violence.

 

[Emperor Norton I]

Stirling seriously f***ed up California and the US. Firstly, the US will survive in some remnant form in the South and West. Secondly, the United States would have been far more capable of moving people to California and maintaining the society than Britain to India, which lacked major railroads, factories, etc. California had infrastructure, industry, room, an accepting populace which is American rather than American ruled, food, etc.,etc.,etc. But this doesn't happen. Nope, California becomes a backwoods of crumbling city states whereas the British, even though they'd be far less capable in real life of escaping to India and actually having that work as well as they may like, retain the dominant position in the world. In my opinion, if there is a world power to lead, it will be California with Britain as a remnant only surviving to compete on prestige built in past days.

* In OTL, Emperor Norton I was a major figure in San Francisco, California, until his death in 1880. In the ATL, consider his rule over a California Republic...

Power! Power!!!

But an Emperor would not rule a Republic. Some parliamentary monarchy, perhaps. He'd simply need to be a bit more stable or sane (it depends on if you think he was crazy, serious, or eccentric to which you'd choose)

 

[black angel]

Does Teddy take any trips west?

no, He's going to collage at Harvard, lives in NYC he's fucked.

 

[Polish Eagle]

Main things to change:

-Okay, seriously, 2025? While the socioeconomic set-up would be changed a lot, setting the story in the early 20th century, say, would do a lot to justify the anachronistic tech and Flashman-era feel, and that's the most important thing.

-Japan taking over China. Whut? With a large, dense, civilised population in 1878, China may descend into anarchy but no-one is conquering it: they'll be eaten themselves. Here's an idea, though: China, at least initially, collapses into chaos. Japan somehow retains its state organisation and sustains its people by neo-Wokou pillaging of its neighbours.

-Satanist Russians. Orthodox fundamentalism is at least as interesting and way more plausible. They can even display similar brutality towards non-Russians: I'd imagine the waves of superstitious peasants descending on the Crimea and Caucasus egged on by doom-preachers would be eager to "punish" the native Muslims, and the new Russia could become somewhat desensitised to violence.

Agreed on Russia and California. Like I said, there was a book review that said about Stirling, that he is dancing in the ruins of the USA. Isn't he a Canadian?

 

[black angel]

speaking of Canada, what are our thoughts on them? given that Ottawa is in-land the government will be around, under PM Alexander Mackenzie, (though in the next election in September OTL would have John A. Macdonald as PM) the Canadian Railway links to US are there and across parts of Canada.

though I should note the Red River Rebellion (1869-1870) and the The North-West Rebellion (1885)

 

[Emperor Norton I]

speaking of Canada, what are our thoughts on them? given that Ottawa is in-land the government will be around, under PM Alexander Mackenzie, (though in the next election in September OTL would have John A. Macdonald as PM) the Canadian Railway links to US are there and across parts of Canada.

though I should note the Red River Rebellion (1869-1870) and the The North-West Rebellion (1885)

If there is a Global Cooling, they'll probably need to move southward or westward, either joining with the remnant US in the south, with a cultural merger to boot between Yank, Dixan and Canadian, or forming some government out of the Pacific Northwest or Washington or something.

 

[black angel]

If there is a Global Cooling, they'll probably need to move southward or westward, either joining with the remnant US in the south, with a cultural merger to boot between Yank, Dixan and Canadian, or forming some government out of the Pacific Northwest or Washington or something.

more thoughts, Mexico is under strong-armed dictator José de la Cruz Porfirio Díaz Mori (Porfirio Díaz for short) a real hard ass, but he only just got power so he's weakish.

also Indians, Sitting Bull, Red Cloud, Geronimo est. are around and fighting the USA (and in Geronimo's case Mexico too) a flood of Americans and Canadians into the American west-southwest and northern Mexico will fire the low level Indian wars.

also what will the Mormons do?

 

[Rekjavik]

One thing that interested me about Peshawar Lancers is the fate of Germany. It was formed in 1871, only recently formed when the meteors struck in 1878. In this more realistic version I do wonder where Germany would go. I remember reading somewhere on this forum that the German monarchy and ruling elite fled with their British cousins to India.

But I find Jord's prediction of a merger between Germany and Austria into a new Holy Roman Empire far more interesting. What were the relations between the two states at the time?

 

[black angel]

One thing that interested me about Peshawar Lancers is the fate of Germany. It was formed in 1871, only recently formed when the meteors struck in 1878. In this more realistic version I do wonder where Germany would go. I remember reading somewhere on this forum that the German monarchy and ruling elite fled with their British cousins to India.

But I find Jord's prediction of a merger between Germany and Austria into a new Holy Roman Empire far more interesting. What were the relations between the two states at the time?

in a word: Bad, in 1866 Prussia and Austrian Empire fought the Austro-Prussian War, Prussia won in a big way, also Otto von Bismarck was VERY anti-Catholic, he only hated Commies more than Papists

also the idea of the German royals fleeing to Raj was mine, there are a lot of German royals/nobles that are closely linked to the British Crown and would be extracted at almost any cost from Germany and go on to make up the top level land holders in the Raj

any way it's unclear how badly Germany is hit in the Fall, a lot rides on if it is or isn't flattened by the Fall

 

[Hawkeye]

, sadly we lose Theodore Roosevelt who is at Harvard in 1878.

Pff... Theodor Roosevelt could handle... no, scratch that, DESTROY! Any silly little meteor shower.

 

[black angel]

Pff... Theodor Roosevelt could handle... no, scratch that, DESTROY! Any silly little meteor shower.

this is before TR found Excalibur

 

[Polish Eagle]

any way it's unclear how badly Germany is hit in the Fall, a lot rides on if it is or isn't flattened by the Fall

He mentions that meteorites hit Europe in a roughly expanding line from Moscow to France. Only one rock hit south of the Alps. No matter what part of Germany is hit, an important portion is wiped out. Prussia hit, takes out the government and much of the military. The Ruhr hit, industry is dead. Anywhere else, the food production is incinerated, destroying much of Germany's ability to grow its own food. Any food that used to be imported is not flowing, as Britain uses its ships to evacuate its own population and the German fleet was wiped out. I think Hamburg was hit, but I could be wrong. It would have been bady hit by the tsunami anyway. They mention that the major navigable rivers are being settled with naval bases. That means the Rhine, Elbe, and Vistula likely have British outposts, which implies that Germany was destroyed.

However, seeing how badly Prussia kicked ass in the last 2 wars, I think it would be more realistic if the Germans take the social elite, the military, and the farmers and charge straight into the Balkans.

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Here are some items that should make the ATL interesting:

* In OTL c.1888, Mīrzā Ghulām Aḥmad of Lahore, India proclaimed himself the "Mahdi" who would unite the Islamic World as the "Great Mahdi"....

* In OTL c. 1900, Sayyīd Muhammad `Abd Allāh al-Hasan proclaimed himself "Mahdi" in Mogadishu, Somalia. The presence of the two leaders could create a threat to the "civilized world"....

* In OTL c.1920s, André Grenard Matsoua of the Congo region proclaimed himself "Matswa". In the ATL, he could certainly make an interesting "wild card"...

* For African-Americans, you might want to add George Baker Jr. (a.k.a. "Reverend Major Jealous Divine") who began proclaiming himself the messiah in c. 1920.

* Another strange character would be William W. Davies of Walla Walla, Washington who, starting in 1868 proclaimed that his son Arthur Davies (a.k.a. "Walla Walla Jesus") was the "reincarnation of Christ Incarnate". In the ATL, imagine his followers attempting to seize San Francisco, California....

 

[black angel]

thoughts on Eugene V. Debs, and Socialism In Peshawar Lancers TL?

 

[Hawkeye]

thoughts on Eugene V. Debs, and Socialism In Peshawar Lancers TL?

Depends on weather he goes to the South or to California. But I think, given the extreme circumstances, that people might go for his ideas of socialism if he ever gets in a position of power.