A More Perfect Union: An Alternate History of the Land of the Free

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by HeX, May 22, 2019.

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  1. Ismaili777 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2019
    I have returned to make fan posts aligned with the canon.
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    German "Shock Trooper" special forces *DIF. (rather than storm trooper)
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    Early WWII era Stahlhelm, notably in black and white as it is normally with a tricolor of Red, Black, and Gold. *DIF (different flag)

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    German paratrooper, notably this one uses a Swastika as a good luck symbol. (only explanation I can use without German Nazism really.)
     
  2. HonestAbe1809 Abraham Lincoln 2020

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    Dec 1, 2013
    The German 14th Fallschirmjäger "Swastika" Division gained a well-earned reputation as the best of the best of the German armed forces.
     
  3. 46566 Active Member

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    Jul 4, 2018
    I'm actually curious about Horace in this timeline. I could see him used in propaganda prices during the world wars. Kinda like the American workhorse. He could take Goofys place in those how to cartoons. (Like the one where Goofy tried to work out) he still would be a background guy but bigger then otl.
     
  4. BrentiusAtticus Emperor of the Milky Way

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    The Philippines
    Welp, inang bayan got wrecked, I hope we rise up soon.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019 at 10:50 AM
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  5. Ironshark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2018
    The mentions of the view of Queen Victoria made me wonder
    If there will be any “worthy opponents “in America’s future

    As Im People who fight against America but are still viewed with respect like Rommel or lee in our timeline
    I could see some British generals getting that view ITTL

    As for the update itself

    Well it wasn’t cool but it was dramatic and serves well to heighten the tension

    Wonder what Churchill first office is gonna be...probably Congress as it’s more local and less of an experience barrier but still has national
    Prestige

    Or hell he is a tough guy Maybe he’ll be the first MAYOR elected president..
    Lots of speculation there
     
  6. Threadmarks: The People's Era, Part Three: David and Goliath

    HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    China as a concept was a nation that had been around for almost four thousand years. During those many millennia, eleven dynasties had taken control the Middle Kingdom, and in those days China had dominated the world in population size and technological achievement. They were the unequivocal Great Power of Asia, one that was looked on in awe by neighbors, traders, and invaders alike. Things were no different with the Qing, who were now in a better position than they had ever been in their now over two hundred years of rule over the Land of Dragons, after beating back the West and industrializing as swiftly as possible.

    All was not well in the Asiatic realm, however. While the Qing had buddied up with the United States, Germany, and Brazil, their chief rival, Japan, had gone the opposite route, partnering with Britain, France, Spain, and Russia. Their purchase of the island of Karafuto in 1891 would be seen as the beginnings of Japanese imperialism in the centuries to come, but in the moment, it seemed to the outside world as a mere transfer of a godforsaken rock of snow and ice from one British ally to another. No one paid it much attention, except for the United States and China, both worried of Japan's potential future incursion on Korean, Manchurian, or Hawai'ian soil.

    As the Great Troubles sent shockwaves across the world, Japan began gearing up for something much bigger: an invasion of the Qing. Emperor Mutsuhito was, for lack of a better term, "feeling himself" following the Meiji Restoration and its massive industrialization and Westernization. With Karafuto under control, Japan was again salivating at the prospects of conquering Korea, perhaps even Taipei or Hong Kong. But defeating China would not be easy, even with the great Japanese Navy. They had, in 1897, when things began to heat up, well over a hundred million able-bodied young men to call upon to fight for the Dragon Throne. Japan, on the other hand, had just over a quarter of that amount. Mutsuhito knew this couldn't be an all-out war, not in the same way the Westerners fought, and it wasn't just about the numbers, either. Both Japan and China, though mortal enemies, held great respect for the other as the Yin to their Yang. This idea stuck, and Japan and China began being referred to as the Tiger and the Dragon of Asia. With that in mind, the Emperor called together his court and the Diet to pen a letter to be sent to the Guangxu Emperor, President Yau Lit, and the Chinese Diet. It was to spell out the terms of what the Japanese termed a "war of honor." Most aspects of modern Western warfare were to be removed, including the looting and pillaging of cities. Just as well, a provision was added to ensure this battle didn't get too out of hand, with the line "no help, no aid, no allies" to be soon etched into the halls of history.

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    The Chinese Dragon and the Japanese Tiger

    Under normal circumstances, there was no way China would accept anything like the proposed War of Honor. But these were no normal circumstances. These were the times of the Great Troubles, where anything could happen. Without consulting any of their allies, the Chinese agreed to the War of Honor in the heat of the moment, hoping to score Karafuto and Japan's smaller islands for itself, as a good springboard for any future invasions of Russia or the Land of the Rising Sun. And having spent the past few years feeling like nothing more than a mere extension of the United States, the Qing needed something to rally behind.

    The War of Honor, also known as the Sino-Japanese War, was a strange fluke of nature. Both the United Kingdom and the United States were tripping over themselves to tell their allies that this was a stupid idea, and that the other side wouldn't abide by any of the rules at all. But China was ferociously stubborn and honorable, and when they made a promise, they kept that promise. Japan, who had spent the better part of two thousand years developing alongside China, knew this well, and were using it to their advantage. While the Chinese would certainly crush them in a land battle, with the new rules fighting on land had become a laborious and ineffective process in the eyes of the late-nineteenth century. The War of Honor would be fought in the style of the European battles of their Gunpowder Era, with soldiers lined up in neat rows across fields and firing upon each other. Though the need for such tactics had been lost with the advent of much speedier and more accurate rifles, it was this form of warfare that was to be used, deemed much more honorable than scrambling around in muddy trenches and taking potshots at enemy soldiers whose faces you might never see. And it was this form of warfare that cost China what, on paper, seemed like an easy win. Even though they had nearly ten times the population of Japan, Japanese rifles, an improvement upon the British Lee-Enfield design known as the Kamikaze, far outclassed the knockoff American Springfields the Qing had armed themselves with. Though the Lee-Enfield and the Kamikaze weren't the most accurate of rifles (though the Kamikaze was significantly better than the former), in a war where you're standing still, they didn't have to be.

    Things got off to a terrible start for China, and they didn't exactly get better. Japan ruled the waves right from the get-go, controlling the Sea of Japan, the Yellow Sea, and the South China Sea with their mighty fleet. This put them at an immediate advantage, and led to the first landing of troops at Busan, in southern Korea, on April 1, 1897--April Fools' Day. The Qing had certainly been fooled, as they watched in horror their combined Chinese and Korean defensive force, twice the size of the Japanese offenders, lose terribly. Not wanting to press their luck, the Japanese decided not to press further inland but to instead keep hold of Busan while they swung around the peninsula to make headway at Incheon… which they failed to land at, due to a large storm making conditions unbearable. Discouraged but undeterred, the Japanese abandoned Incheon and captured Pyongyang, in central Korea, and Dandong, which straddled the border with China, all in a quick-as-lightning May.

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    The Battle of Busan, 1897

    Japan's northern advance stalled out at Jiuliancheng, however, the only battle fought between the Dragon and the Tiger on the Chinese mainland the entire war. On June 12, the two armies arrived at the town, just a short way away from Dandong, and the Chinese managed to grab victory from the jaws of defeat. Their secret weapon? The Sunzi rifle. The Guangxu Emperor had been displeased with China's reluctance to innovate following their industrialization, a problem traceable to the teachings of Confucius. But there were two interpretations of Confucianism as relating to science and technology: one which married the two ideas, as both are all about understanding more about the physical world; and the other, which, through Confucianism's sometimes narrow moral lense, oftentimes disliked the advent of new technologies. While Confucianism wasn't as big of an impediment to Chinese progress as the Westerners liked to think, it was certainly a roadblock. Well, the Qing overcame that roadblock by successfully embracing the first interpretation of Confucianism and technology, the version that had spurred on the invention of paper, gunpowder, and countless other Chinese masterworks. This view was widespread by the early 1890s, and it was then that China truly began testing its mettle at invention. Though met with more than a few failures (including an attempt at a better version of the Gatling gun, which had failed in comparison to the American Maxim gun), they eventually designed an entirely new bolt-action rifle in 1896 that proved to be the best in the world, named after the famed strategist General Sun Tsu, or "Sunzi." When the War of Honor began, though, only a few hundred had been produced. Chinese industry went into overdrive mass-producing the Sunzi rifle, and had enough to equip an army by the time of the Battle of Jiuiancheng, where they wiped the floor with the Japanese and effectively ended their campaign across Korea and Manchuria. The Shandong Peninsula, Tokyo's ultimate goal, was left untouched by the fires of war.

    Taipei, or Taiwan, as it became known, was not so lucky. Cut off from mainland China by the Japanese Navy as soon as the Qing accepted the invitation to war, Taiwan, home to some three million Chinese, was in a fight for its life with no reprieve. Any and all aid from the shore couldn't hope to make it through the Japanese blockade. Battle after battle was fought, in Keeling, T'aipei, Hsin-Chu, Chang-Hua, Changhsing, and Fang-Liao, as the Chinese army was chased further and further south following defeat after defeat. It was enough, in fact, in the aftermath of the massive Battle of Fang-Liao, to push the Qing to the negotiating table. They agreed at the Treaty of Busan in 1898 that, in return for the guaranteed safety of the native Chinese of Taiwan, they would cede the island to Japan, and nothing more. It was a humiliating loss for China, but an astounding victory for Japan, the new kid on the block. Vanquishing the Chinese Dragon was a big feather in their cap, and proved that the Tiger of Asia could swing with the big boys.

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    The Japanese Imperial Flagship Osaka, 1898

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    The Battle of Fang-Liao, 1897

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    An 1898 political cartoon depicting the David and Goliath themes of the War of Honor

    In the aftermath of the War of Honor, two formal treaties were signed (these being the Treaty of Frankfurt and the Treaty of Moscow), officially solidifying the unspoken alliances that had defined the world for some forty years: the League, and the Entente. It was done to prevent any more mishaps like the War of Honor, which had been the ultimate embarrassment for the Chinese. The League was made up of four core members, these being Germany, Brazil, China, and the superpower-status United States, as well as a number of smaller states, such as the Republican Kingdom of the Two Sicilies, Greece, Belgium, Korea, Venice, most of Central and South America (including Nuevo Granada, the Mesoamerican republics, Chile, Uruguay, and Argentina), and Sweden (who in particular simply held a distaste for Britain and Russia). The Entente was its dark counterpart, with the central alliance consisting of the world's other superpower, Great Britain, as well as France, Spain, Portugal, Russia, Japan, and the Netherlands; less important states like Mexico, Savoy, Tuscany, and Bolivia were also signatories. But while the lines in the sand were drawn in 1898, they weren't present on everybody's beach. There were numerous medium-sized nations leaning this way or that on the side of whose bandwagon to jump on if things went south. The Entente was rather lacking in this department, with only the Ottomans in their camp, while Hungary, Siam, Ethiopia, Rumania, Moldova, Paraguay, Peru, Persia, and Oman tended to favor the League, as did countless independence movements scattered throughout European colonies across the world. Denmark, Switzerland, and the Papal States all affirmed their statuses as unaligned neutrals, though by the dawn of the first global conflict, at least one of these will have abandoned that status for an alliance.

    All was not well within the ranks of the Entente, however. Japan was desperate for more land, even if their strike at Korea had failed, and their new allies were ripe for the picking. Japan knew going for French or Dutch colonies would poke the sleeping British lion a bit too hard, and end in their ejection from the alliance. But Spain… no one in the Entente really liked Spain, whose attitude in the years since its return to glory had gotten a bit to bigheaded. They deserved being knocked down a peg, Britain decided, so they didn't get too many delusions of grandeur. With secret permission from London itself, Japan was hurtling headlong into a war with its ally, Spain.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019 at 2:28 PM
  7. Cryostorm Monthly Donor

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    Charleston, SC United States of America
    Ooh, Spain's going to lose Philippines, Guam, and everything east of Africa. So the Filipino people are going from the frying pan to the fire. Funnily this might actually help Spain as they focus more on the African holdings, Morocco in particular.
     
  8. Ironshark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2018
    great udpate

    and i am dont know to root for spian or japan as both ITTL are crazy and evil..but japan is cooler
    sorry for spelling mistakes i am on mobile
     
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  9. SavoyTruffle I am the modren man

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    Here's to the Filipinos using the Spanish-Japanese War as an opportunity. ;)
     
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  10. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    The Japanese ITTL really aren't that bad, at least as far as OTL standards go. There will be no massacres or genocidal extermination in the Pacific ITTL, and the idea of choosing dying for the emperor over capture or committing suicide for performing "dishonorable" actions will be gotten rid of by way of an official decree by Emperor Hirohito in the 1920s.

    The Spanish, on the other hand, will make OTL German colonial policies look tame by comparison.
     
  11. RonRon New Member

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    Apr 2, 2019
    Is it strange that I keep thinking of hetalia when I see the use of personification when talking about the actions of OTL nations?
     
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  12. Cryostorm Monthly Donor

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    Charleston, SC United States of America
    Well the US has either had the eagle, Uncle Sam, Lady Liberty, or the angel Colombia as it representation depending on what the artist wanted to convey. Most other countries generally had something similar, such as the bear or Ivan for Russia or the black eagle or Hans for Germany.
     
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  13. Carismastic Active Member

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    Wait, did Mexico and Bolivia join the Entente or the League? Because if it’s the former, then the leadership of both countries must be suicidal.
     
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  14. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Mexico and Bolivia are run by some shortsighted Entente-backed dictators. I'll get into specifics with my next post about the US and the Americas.
     
  15. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Disneyland, U.S.A.
    Okay, people, question for you all: how would you feel if I retconned the TL and made "The Battle Cry of Freedom" America's national anthem ITTL? I've only mentioned "The Star-Spangled Banner" once or twice in the making of this TL, so it wouldn't disrupt too much.
     
  16. Knightmare Well-Known Member

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    FL
    Eh, no issues. It's still a good song.
     
  17. farmerted555 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 8, 2015
    Star-Spangled Banner is a fine patriotic song, but Battle Cry of Freedom makes more sense as an anthem ITTL. Especially with the world wars coming up.
     
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  18. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Alright, I've made the executive decision to change the national anthem. Down with the traitors and up with the stars!
     
  19. eldandythedoubter Well-Known Member

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    Feb 28, 2015
    Can the battle of freedom be the wartime anthem?
     
  20. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    I think the Patriotic Quadfecta will be used during wartime, these being "Yankee Doodle," "The Star-Spangled Banner," "The Battle Cry of Freedom," and "The Battle Hymn of the Republic," depending on the circumstances and who the Americans are fighting. "Battle Cry" will still be TTL's national anthem, though.
     
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