A More Perfect Union: An Alternate History of the Land of the Free

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by HeX, May 22, 2019.

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  1. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Yeah, sorry about that. Since kamikaze attacks won't be a thing ITTL, I tried to find the best nineteenth century analogy to make up for that, and I figured the desperate, aid-less Filippinos would be the most likely people to do such a thing.

    Alfred Nobel sends Spain his regards.
     
  2. Unknown Member

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    The US stumbled, I see; that is realistic for a TL like this, IMO...

    Waiting for more, of course...
     
  3. farmerted555 Well-Known Member

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    The key word here is "stumbled", not "fell off a cliff".
     
  4. SavoyTruffle I am the modren man

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    Funny you should mention that, since the first kamikaze attacks came from Philippine-based Japanese forces IOTL.
     
  5. Ameroboto Deep State Bad Hombre

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    So, Boer-Zulu alliance when?
     
  6. Simeon La empresa crecerá más grande

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    This truly is the lightest timeline.

    Isn’t Japan’s purchase of Sakhalin’s pretty harmless, though? The Japanese government must have had the map of East Asia thoroughly shoved into its face to make apparent the futility of grander designs beyond Sakhalin.

    Also, the Filipinos, while outgunned, are not totally gunless IOTL, and are perfectly capable of building trenches, forts, and batteries; the colonial government was even stalemated. Defectors from the Spanish detachment are to be thanked for those. By that, however, the Spanish will clamp down on Freemasons and freethinkers everywhere, even in the peninsula.

    All those cries of mabuhay and viva, though. Up until when Spanish rule will remain?

    So, I guess the World is the most respectable liberal-leaning (or revolutionary) periodical. I still want my sensationalist papers, though, as a counter to whoever of the Murdochs Britain will field ITTL. Maybe, one trashy and gay Goebbels for a Viennese tabloid?
     
  7. Whiteshore Defender of Myrcella Baratheon

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    Why do I have a feeling Spain is cracking down hard on Catalans, Basques, and Galicians?
     
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  8. Samsara123 Well-Known Member

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    So Churchill has reached the point where he is super pissed at the world and wants to fix it even if he needs to shoot a lot of aristocrats to do it
     
  9. Alexei Filipino Frick-Frack

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    "I have nothing to offer but Blood, Toil, Tears and Shells - and they're all going to our Eastern Friends."
    -Winston Spencer-Churchill, campaigning against the European Aggressors of the 1890s. Some criticized this speech for showing what a warmonger and imperialist Churchill was - until the Boer Massacre that is.
     
  10. Simeon La empresa crecerá más grande

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    Don't worry, your freemason brothers will soon be free as soon as Revolutionary Spirit rain about the peninsula.

    ~

    Of course, they are some quite nationalistic minorities after all; maybe, they will be the substitute of the Anarchists that characterised that last royal government's authoritarianism and descent to civil war, willn't they? They'll be freemasons still, though...

    Inspired by the zeal of the Philippine uprising, for one.
     
  11. theg*ddam*hoi2fan Beware of the Leopard

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    That’d be my thinking. Low population (most of whom will likely move anyway), no scope for awfulness happening, plus given its proximity to Japan it effectively is part of the archipelago... wouldn’t have thought of it as a problem.

    The other things @HeX describes, OTOH...
     
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  12. HonestAbe1809 Abraham Lincoln 2020

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    American depictions of Queen Victoria would depend on how much she tolerates the intolerable atrocities her government commits in Africa and India. The best she’d get in America is to be depicted as aloof and uncaring of the suffering of others. The worst would depict her as a cackling villain taking sick pleasure in their suffering.
     
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  13. Israel_Dan the Man Well-Known Member

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    Awww, I would've loved India getting free earlier.
     
  14. Goldwind2 Well-Known Member

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    I feel this bit about wiston chruchhill is implausble. He was born in 1874. He would only be 19 in 1893. He may have just started working for a newspaper by then but I doubt they would have sent him south africa
     
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  15. DTF955Baseballfan 12-time All-Star in some TL

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    Good analogy to OTL's losing interest in Reconstruction - and in some ways the isolation of the '20s, also. An America that's thinking of being a world power winds up realizing just how difficult it is, and how they have to be eternally vigilant. (I wonder if Jefferson's quote that "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" is used by those who believe the US needs to step in at times like that.)

    Churchill does seem a bit young to have been sent to South Africa - but he could have volunteered as a free lancer. Given some of his OTL decisions like Gallipoli, perhaps TTL his poor decisions are of the personal kind, like putting himself in unintentional, severe danger trying to "get the scoop" and send it to the World.

    Does Gandhi wind up being killed in one of these rebellions? Escape? Or will he be the Nelson Mandela of TTL, in prison for a couple decades till finally released, to then become President?
     
  16. TheImperialTheorist To theorize & imagine worlds of possibilities.

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    Well, I will say it’s nice to see you listen to our criticisms. After all, no matter how much you want to do something, sometimes forces out of your control prevent that. And as we see here, international politics can be quite the force.
     
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  17. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Yes, I suppose he probably was freelancing. Though, keep in mind, he is the eldest son of the founder of the OSS ITTL, and that comes with a lot of clout, clout that can be waved around on your resumé. I also like the idea of Churchill being reckless in life as a daring reporter going where no other man would dare in search of the next big scoop, at least until his political career takes off. Pulitzer and Hearst would both pay out the ass for his stories as exclusives in the age of yellow journalism.

    Ghandi will be a Nelson Mandela ITTL (though Nelson Mandela himself will still show up, too), and will actually be a better person than he was IOTL, not holding back on women's rights and all that. I try to keep a lot of famous people of OTL in somewhat prominent roles still in AMPU, mostly because it's cool to see what said famous people are doing with all the butterflies.
     
  18. Workable Goblin Chronicler of the Pony Wars

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    Well that was...basically exactly what Churchill actually did in the real world.
     
  19. generalurist Map Staring Expert

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    This is a minor complaint, but I really, really do not see how allowing Japan to buy land and naval bases from the ass end of Russia, and making an alliance with them, counts as a failure on anything near the same level as failing to prevent genocides and war crimes. Especially since I don't think the Japanese have had a chance to prove themselves as merciless bloodthirsty imperialists yet. Maybe if Japan had bought Alaska along with the rest than the USA would have real cause to worry or feel humbled, but this alone doesn't seem like enough.

    Hmm, I wonder if Churchy will have a hand in sparking the first world war?
     
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  20. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Yeah... that's understandable. Mostly, it represents to the future United States as the place where all went wrong for Japan, but in the moment, it doesn't seem like much. The Japanese will be doing some more acquiring of Entente territories in the Pacific, specifically lands from Spain, who has grown weary of all the native rebellions out there... though things there will be much more confusing than one might think, since Spain isn't really in the selling mood.

    Originally, I was going to discuss an Algerian genocide in French Africa... but I felt that four major genocides in ten years was a bit much, so I decided to bring in the beginnings of Japanese imperialism earlier from a later chapter I had planned focusing on East Asia.
     
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