A More Perfect Union: An Alternate History of the Land of the Free

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by HeX, May 22, 2019.

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  1. Cryostorm Monthly Donor

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    Well Vancouver only incorporated in 1886 so there would be plenty of time to for the name to be something different, maybe Jackson on the Jackson River or maybe Douglas or Lincoln for both since that might be heavy on everyone's mind.
     
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  2. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Oh. Well in that case, Vancouver will definitely be named "Douglass" ITTL.
     
  3. Cryostorm Monthly Donor

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    The Pacific Northwest will be even bigger TTL, especially the Puget Sound region, since all of the cities will be in one nation. They will likely be an influential block in Congress since they will mostly be alike in outlook.
     
  4. IncongruousGoat Armchair Rocket Scientist

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    What's going to happen with Alaska ITTL? I can see that the U.S. didn't buy (or hasn't yet bought) it from Russia, but is it going to remain a Russian possession? Seems a bit odd to leave it if the U.S. is going to be getting Canada...
     
  5. Alexei Filipino Frick-Frack

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    I mean, America and Russia are Mutual Rivals instead of Amigos this TL.
     
  6. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Russia IOTL was only interested in selling Alaksa to the United States because they were afraid of it falling in Britain's hands (outside of the instant moneygrab, that is). ITTL, the Ruskies don't want to sell it to either the US or UK because Russia fears both of them. Also, with the Yukon Gold Rush soon/in recent memory, the Russians finally have a reason to keep ahold of Alaska. Expect the region to become much more Russianized (I.E. the white locals speak Russian, eat Russian food, are Russian Orthodox Christians, etc.) and populous in the years to come.

    Also, I've already pretty much laid out who among the Great Powers is siding with who in the upcoming global conflict: people who like America/Germany, versus people who like Britain/France. And let me tell you, Russia does not like America and despises Germany. So they're going with the Brits, meaning Alaska will be swept into the United States right beside Canada.
     
  7. Andrew Boyd Resident Rail Enthusiast

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    @HeX

    Could I get of a map of what the US eventually looks like so I can use them for alternate train pictures?
     
  8. Cryostorm Monthly Donor

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    That wasn't the only reason, a larger one was that Russia knew that any war with the UK, or really any naval power stronger than them which was most of them, could take it without much of a fight since Russia would be hard pressed to defend the Russian far east, much less North America. There is also the fact that Russia just didn't have the people to populate it since Siberia was still widely uninhabited, and even much of the European Russian heartland is rather sparse. So Russia was pretty much hoping to get some cash instead of losing it in the next war with the UK, or in this case the US and I doubt that has changed much, even if there was a gold rush in Alaska since even with that the Alaskan population is less the 800,000 today. Besides if Russia wants gold there is a lot more in Siberia which they already know of and is much easier to get and defend, at best it just raises the price Russia gets for the land when they sell or lose it.

    Also why does Russia fear the US more TTL than OTL, while it has been much more aggressive in foreign policy that has been mostly in the Americas where Russia has little involvement and has been mostly to the detriment of Britain and France, a big benefit in the Russian mind since they are the ones they compete with in Asia and back the Ottomans. The fact the the US helped Greece and gave the Ottoman's a black eye, and may do so again, is just another reason for the Russians to get along with the US. The formation of Germany may be an issue but with Germany looking more south in Africa and there is little friction there without Austrian Balkan ambitions. If anything Russia might sell Alaska just to make Britain have to focus even more forces in North America.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  9. Lazer_Pages 1453 Best Year of my Life

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    The map is nice, I'm not sure why but I really like the name of the state in Southern California, I haven’t seen many Colorado’s there before.

    Two questions in regards to the timeline.
    1. Did the second opium war occur? I’m somewhat confused on the matter and,
    2. If it did occur, did the summer palace get torched like in OTL?
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  10. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Thanks! I got it from a book called Lost States: True Stories of Texlahoma, Transylvania, and Other States That Never Made It, which is the very same book that got me interested in alternate history in the first place. Some of the "states" listed in it weren't really ever in the running to become states but are just interesting side notes in American territorial history (like Rio Rico, a city that's a part of Texas but is south of the Rio Grande; Lost Dakota, a part of the Dakota Territory that was left out of any state boundaries until 1873; and the British Isles, including Ireland, based off a proposal by some idiot from Georgia in 1947 who argued that since Britain owed America so much after Old Glory bailed them out of WWII, they should just be annexed. Britain responded that the Confederacy, a nation Georgia had been a part of, still owed them a lot of money, and the guy promptly shut up). Others, though, are real proposals that almost made it, like NorCal and southern Oregon breaking away to form Jefferson in 1941 (only stopped by Pearl Harbor), Sequoyah (half of OTL Oklahoma and one that shows up on every AH map ever), and the famous State of Franklin. Colorado was suggested IOTL by some SoCal separatists in the 1800s, but Colorado in the Rockies became a state, and the whole bid for statehood kinda collapsed after that.

    The Second Opium War occurred, but it was far less of an overwhelming defeat ITTL, as noted by Europe having influence over far less of rapidly-modernizing China. So no torching of the Summer Palace, either.
     
  11. Andrew Boyd Resident Rail Enthusiast

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    Another railroad snapshot or two:

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    The Jamaican Railroad's MST-1 Class 4-8-0 idles in the capitol Kingston. Today one, #432, is preserved in Kingston, while #430 is preserved in tourist service in Georgia.

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    A typical morning in a railyard on the Yucatan Peninsular Railroad. Which was created out of the mergers of various 2ft 6in gauge lines in the Yucatan and Belize territories.

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    Steam railroading lasted far longer in the island territories than on the Continental US. Even Cuba, which was only a feww hundred miles away from Florida, was still flogging its steamers as hard as possible into the 1980s.
     
  12. Andrew Boyd Resident Rail Enthusiast

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    Also, where can I go to make my own ideas for an alternate map or two?
     
  13. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Dude, I already said I'm not interested in a post about trains ITTL anymore. I'm sorry, but I'm just not.
     
  14. Andrew Boyd Resident Rail Enthusiast

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    I was just wondering what software you used so I could use make some alternate worlds of my own.
     
  15. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Oh. Well, I just use Paint 3D and MS Paint. Nothing more special than that. But other people use Photoshop, Paint.net, InkScape, and other platforms too
     
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  16. Andrew Boyd Resident Rail Enthusiast

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    OK. I personally use Adobe PS when making maps.
     
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  17. USJ I am L.E.G.I.O.N

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    Just spent the whole day so far reading this TL and I can say I love it so far. :D

    Can't wait for the next update!

    Oh, and I'm just wondering how many TL's on ITTL's AH.Com have the POD of Douglass surviving his assassination. :closedeyesmile:
     
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  18. Threadmarks: Redemption, Part Ten: The Two Victorias

    HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    What do you do when you lose a loved one?

    That's what the United States was asking following the assassination of Frederick Douglass. Never before had a president been killed in office, and the people were in utter shock. It had been the American red wedding. The Union had had to grow up fast to deal with the loss of the president on top of Lincoln and Lee, and it faced some growing pains from going so high so fast. Former Vice President Victoria Woodhull was the next in line for the presidency, according to the lines of presidential succession as delineated by the Thirteenth Amendment. As the first female chief executive in American history, she had a lot to live up to, and almost a full four-year term to get started.

    Robert Johnson, the man who'd shot the president, had committed suicide soon after the assassination, leaving him free of worldly punishment, though hopefully he'd be burning in Hell for all time in payment for such a crime. But hoping for spiritual punishment was not going to solve any problems on Earth. Johnson was a veteran of the Civil War, who had served on the side of the Confederacy for all four years of the conflict. In fact, all of his siblings had rebelled against the Union, though mostly as a result of rebelling against their father, the strict Professor Andrew Johnson of the Smithsonian Institute and a staunch Unionist. By this point, the South was well on its way to complete Redemption, and the next generation of Southern children and young adults were lacking most of the racism their parents and grandparents wielded like swords. President Woodhull decided punishing these progressive young souls would not be good for anyone, especially as phase one of Redemption (re-education on race relations) was nearing completion and more and more states would be allowed to rejoin the Union. But the people demanded something be done to punish the South. In a shocking display of presidential power (indeed, Victoria Woodhull would expand the power of the executive branch more than any president since Hamilton and wouldn't be matched again until Theodore Roosevelt), the president declared all who had taken up arms against the United States of America in the name of the Confederacy were to become "non-citizens"; non-citizens were people who were not entitled to any rights of the Constitution but had to stay within the borders of the United States unless given express permission from Washington. This ensured that former Confederate rebels would, essentially, be serving out a lifelong prison sentence for treason. In turn, this action sparked the Great Migration, wherein thousands of disenfranchised Southern whites fled the New South post-Redemption for the Great Plains.

    Victoria Woodhull was the first American president to be considered a globalist. While Lincoln, Grant, and Douglass hadn't exactly shied away from playing major roles in world politics, they had mostly focused on repairing the Union following the Civil War and enforcing Redemption. When Woodhull came to power, Redemption was on its way out as a resounding and lasting success, and she could afford to spend most of her time involving America more in the ever-widening web of alliances that tied the world together, as she would later show during the Rome Conference and the Scramble for Africa that ensued.

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    San Francisco City Hall, the Meeting Place of the Four Nations of the Free World

    Relations with all of America's allies were strengthened, and a few more were even added to the fold. On March 8, 1882, a historic meeting took place, when President Woodhull, Brazilian President Campo Sales, German President Otto von Bismarck, and Chinese President Li Hongzhang all met in San Francisco, the very first time the leaders of all four major powers of the Free World met in person. There, a variety of topics were discussed: China's plans to beat back the empires of Europe; German, American, and Brazilian designs on Africa; how to handle Colombia, a thorn in the side of both the US and Brazil; and ambitions to finalize their makeshift alliance in an official treaty at a later date, as the British and French had been making noise about creating their own official pact with Spain, Portugal, and Sardinia. The Ottomans and the Russians both were growing closer to Britain, but they did not like each other in the slightest; it was more than likely that, should war break out, only one would officially join the Brits, and the other would remain a hesitant neutral power. Considering the Ottoman Empire was the sick man of Europe and its health waned further every day, Russia appeared to be that ally to join the United Kingdom in war, especially as America and Germany began encouraging nationalist republican uprisings across the continent, including in lands owned by the Tsar, such as Poland, Ukraine, the Baltic states, and Finland. In fact, the United States began to put pressure on China to lighten its heavy hand on Korea, attempting to stoke the fires of nationalism there to dissuade a suspected Japanese invasion there soon. What President Woodhull really wanted was the Revolutions of 1848, Part Two: Electric Boogaloo, though that was, for the time being, a mere pipe dream.

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    President Victoria Woodhull (USA)

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    President Campo Sales (Brazil)

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    President Otto von Bismarck (Germany)

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    President Li Hongzhang (China)

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    Li Hongzhang and Otto von Bismarck discuss Chinese ambitions in the Far East at the San Francisco Conference

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    Flag of the Republican Kingdom of Korea, proposed at the San Francisco Conference

    Meanwhile, Frederick Douglass was being given the proper treatment as America's first assassinated president. While despised in the South, he had been considered a damn good successor to the legacies of Hamilton, Lincoln, and Grant, and was one of the most popular presidents of the century. His wife, Sharon Douglass, a French immigrant Douglass had married in 1830, preferred a small funeral, just as Mary Todd Lincoln and Honest Abe had enjoyed. But Douglass' oldest daughter, Rosetta, then a member of the House of Representatives for Maryland, leapt at the offer of what President Woodhull suggested: the empty tomb underneath the US Capitol Building, originally constructed for George Washington. Both the families of Washington and Lincoln had turned it down, but the Douglass siblings convinced their mother it was what Frederick would have wanted, as a constant reminder to Congress that all men--and women--are created equal. Sharon relented, and crowds came from around the world to see President Frederick Douglass one last time. Professor Andrew Johnson and his wife were among those who came to the funeral, and they profusely apologized for the horrible act their son had committed. The Douglass family forgave them, though they cursed Robert Johnson to Hell and back.

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    Tomb of Frederick Douglass, Beneath the United States Capitol Building

    In the end, the death of Frederick Douglass propelled the United States of America forward into a new age. Republican Spirit exploded forth from the nation, and though the age of populism was just over the horizon, it was here to stay. Douglass's death cemented the ideas of equality and egalitarianism in the United States forevermore. Had he been a less successful man, he would have probably lived longer.

    But, then again, what's the point in a long life if you do nothing with it?
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  19. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Thanks! This timeline has been a real joy to write.

    About as many timelines that involve Abraham Lincoln not being assassinated, I'd say. It's certainly a popular topic. And, ITTL, Confederate victory scenarios are few and far between, considering how badly the South got beaten. Total American conquest of Canada during the Canadian War is a far more popular subject in AH circles.
     
  20. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Hello everyone! I'm currently on vacation now in New York City, so don't expect an update (well, maybe one) within the next week or so. But the next chapter will be all about the Scramble for Africa, which I've been excited about writing. America's going to have a seat at the table for divvying up the Dark Continent ITTL, which will be very interesting to say the least.
     
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