A More Perfect Union: An Alternate History of the Land of the Free

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by HeX, May 22, 2019.

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  1. Ironshark Well-Known Member

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    War plan red orange
    And war plan green are probably gonna be more just plans in this timeline

    speaking of war plan green when is Mexico gonna start being more of an antagonist HeX
    or has that aspect been dropped ?


    Funny thing I noticed too .. this timeline for being a better world is full of wars
     
  2. Israel_Dan the Man Well-Known Member

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    Hoi4 without mods is meh, but the mods are so cool! You need to buy the game, my friend!
     
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  3. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Canada's coming soon, but by the time it's annexed, it'll have reached dominion status. Remember, making moves on Canada at this point in the timeline guarantees a global war breaking out. The United States is really kicking itself for not going for Canada during the Oregonian War, but is patiently waiting until an inevitable worldwide conflict (*cough*alt-WW1*cough*) occurs.

    So Canadian nationalism is gonna be a big problem for a couple decades.
    Mexico's going to be entering a downward spiral come the end of the nineteenth century. Some bad people are going to seize power, and then Mexico will be more or less unstable until the 1950s.
    Yes... and no. The United States ITTL has indeed gotten itself involved in many more conventional wars than OTL, that is, wars with defined European-style powers like Mexico, the Confederacy, and especially Britain. But at the same time, the United States hasn't had endless conflict with Native Americans. Those wars, which we tend to forget about, make up the bulk of American armed conflict IOTL (seriously, there's like a zillion of them), so really, while there have been more wars, there's been less fighting.
    I've got HOI4 (and suck at it), I just don't have a clue in how to go about making a mod for it. And yes, I'll definitely agree with you there, vanilla HOI4 is absolute snoresville. You've gotta have The Road to '56 downloaded, at least.
     
  4. HonestAbe1809 Abraham Lincoln 2020

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    If the annexation happens post-Dominion it'd be just as plausible for the Americans to install a pro-America republican government in Canada as annex it.
     
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  5. Lazer_Pages 1453 Best Year of my Life

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    So I suppose the rise of a dictatorship in Colombia, and its current path towards the use of slave labor explains the background of the “Colombian War”. I wonder if this war will be the ittl Great War equivalent or not, and if this will be the war which sees America blob into Canada.
     
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  6. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Well, every president since Hamilton has been promising the American people that Canada will enter into the fold eventually. While this sentiment died out IOTL due to the War of 1812 becoming a distant memory and the British becoming the US's closest ally, ITTL, the US has been constantly at odds with Great Britain since 1776. It would be political suicide for any president who has a chance to fully annex Canada to turn it down and merely establish a republican government in it.
     
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  7. Israel_Dan the Man Well-Known Member

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  8. Threadmarks: Redemption, Part Eight: Let Us Walk In Harmony

    HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    "I was warmed by the sun, rocked by the winds and sheltered by the trees as other Indian babes. I can go everywhere with a good feeling."
    --Geronimo, Governor of Sequoyah

    "No Statue of Columbia ever greeted our arrival in this country. It was we who greeted you, with open arms. And this is how you repay us? With genocide?"
    --Quanah Parker, Chief of the Comanche

    "The most beautiful thing in this world is a heart that is changing."
    --President Frederick Douglass

    --------------------------------​

    When Christopher Columbus touched down in the Caribbean in 1492, he was met not by empty land and vast, untapped resources sitting out in the opening, just ripe for the taking in the name of God and Country. What he met was a civilization. He christened the people "Indians", mistakenly believing that he had landed on some islands near India, and got along well with them, at first, when they were very kind and hospitable, caring for him and his men. But when they began to overstay their welcome, naturally, the Indians got a bit antsy, and their kindness began to degrade. As they stopped giving the Europeans free stuff, the European view of the natives began to decline, as seen in Columbus' own journal, where upon landing on the island he describes the people there in grandiose and positive detail, but by the end of his stay, he had resorted calling them "savages."

    And it was this stigma that prevailed for centuries. They believed the Native Americans were a broken, backwards, and savage race, one meant to be either Christianized and assimilated or expelled and exterminated. The Spanish took the former route, while the English tended to lean towards the latter. It was this unfortunate belief that remained entrenched in the American identity until the presidency of Andrew Jackson and the landmark Supreme Court case Cherokee Nation v. Georgia, when said belief was reversed and a new era of American-Indian relations began. During the Civil War, the state of Tsaligi broke away from the Confederate states of Georgia, Mississippi, and Tennessee as the only native-majority state in the United States. And in 1878, Mississippi rejoined the Union as the second native-majority state, with the combined population of all the Five Civilized Tribes (minus the Cherokee) more than outnumbering the white minority mostly holed up in Birmingham. And when Ulysses S. Grant was elected in 1868, he named his personal friend and former aide during the Civil War, Ely S. Parker, a Seneca Indian born with the name Donehogawa, his Attorney General, the first Native American to hold such a post. In fact, Grant made leaps and bounds forward in progressing Indian policy, creating the Board of Indian Commissioners with the intent of ensuring tribes federal help and protection.

    [​IMG]
    Ely S. Parker
    (b. 1828 -- d. 1900)

    But there were much greater problems out west. Bison were being slaughtered by the thousands, white and black settlers were moving into ancestral native lands even when such action was condemned by the government, and several tribes, primarily the Comanche and Apache, were against making any deals with white men at all (the tribes of the Great Plains, meanwhile, retained friendly relations with the US). President Douglass sought to take matters into his own hands. He appointed Thomas Custer, brother of war hero George Custer, as the new head to the Board of Indian Commissioners in 1877. All three Custer brothers were notoriously pro-Indian, though George was far too headstrong and Boston simply uninterested in politics for either to take on the role. With a new head, the board turned around immediately. Previous policy had been swinging in the direction of transforming the tribes of the West into essentially new additions to the Five Civilized Tribes: wearing Western clothes, using Western agricultural techniques, speaking English, and being Christianized, with the final goal in mind of assimilating into the existing American culture. But Frederick Douglass and Thomas Custer approached things differently. Rather than trying to extinguish native culture, America should embrace it. This theory was already working on a small scale, with many, many of the cowboys and frontiersmen of the Wild West working with and even marrying into tribes like the Sioux, Shoshone, Cheyenne, Crow, Blackfoot, and Navajo.

    [​IMG]
    Thomas Custer
    (b. 1845 -- d. 1927)

    While met with some push back out West, most of the Northeast and Great Lakes regions thought it was a grand idea. By this point, most of America had forgotten it had once been committing genocide on the Indian peoples, and saw Native Americans as helpful (if a bit strange and eccentric) people who had aided the Union in crushing the Southron viper just a decade ago. It certainly helped that Mark Twain's latest novel, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn (published 1878), had dealt with Huck meeting and befriending a Chickasaw man named Miko and adventuring with him up and down the Mighty Mississippi in the days prior to the Civil War. Really, the only place Indians were genuinely hated was the older generations of the South, who saw them as no-good backstabbers for turning against them during the war, though that didn't really matter considering the South was still under military occupation and had no say in government. But then, even with the nation agreeing to work with the Indians, the American people still wanted to settle the land they'd spent the better part of a century fighting to obtain. From this sprouted the complex web of treaties that came under one sweeping title, the American Indian Policy. The federal government called in as many chiefs and tribal leaders as they could, set to meet at a nondescript bend in the Little Bighorn River near Hardin, in the far reaches of Unorganized Territory.

    It had quite the turnout. Dozens of chiefs showed up representing the biggest tribes on the continent, and were greeted by Thomas and George Custer, Ely Parker, and a slew of other representatives for the American government in Washington. Many deals were pounded out at Little Bighorn, and varied in how much they favored the Americans. Some tribes agreed to sell parts of their land to the federal government, others to cohabitate with white settlers provided they had the right to kick them out if they got too handsy, and still others (the Apache, most notably) signed non-aggression pacts to stop the fighting between their people and the US. All of these new treaties were strictly enforced by Douglass and the United States Army and local militias. Following the monumental Council at Little Bighorn, Congress (still dominated by Federalists) passed the Custer Act of 1879. The law stated that all Native Americans were dual citizens, belonging to both the United States of America and their own tribe. It also quantified just what a "domestic dependent" nation was, something America had been avoiding having to answer since the days of Jackson. Domestic dependent nations were, essentially, states within a state. They had their own governments, and were supposed to work with the governments of the states their nations resided in, the one exclusion to this rule being the Cherokee, who ran their own state, Tsalagi. Naturally, there were a lot of disputes to be had, especially when a lot of domestic dependent nations straddled state lines, like the Navajo who were within three states. So the federal government was to be the deal breaker between such altercations, and had final say.

    [​IMG]
    George and Thomas Custer convene with Lakota tribesmen at Little Bighorn, ca. 1878

    [​IMG]
    "The Blood of Our Ancestors"
    Erected 1978, the one-hundredth anniversary of the Council at Little Bighorn

    The thorn in the side of the affairs at Little Bighorn and the Custer Act was the Comanche people. Known as the "Lords of the Plains", the Comanche were known as fierce warriors and defenders of their homeland, Comancheria, which consisted of parts of Pecos, Sequoyah, Cimarron Territory, Kansas, Hamilton Territory, Aztlán Territory, and Sonora Territory. They had been fighting European conquerors since the Spanish arrived in the 1500s, and weren't keen on stopping anytime soon.

    So began the Comanche Wars, the first major armed conflict between the United States and a First Nation since the Canadian War. In spite of what one might initially believe, a large number of the troops sent to fight were members of the Five Civilized Tribes. The Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminoles all wished to enlighten their peers and bring the gifts of Western civilization to the rest of North America's indigenous population, and to show that their identities and societies did not have to be shed in order to do so. The war continued for what most considered far too long, from 1879 to 1885, but it did a world of good. The Comanche inevitably lost, but were not forced off their lands or into the arms of unequal, unfair treaties. The federal government instead took three-quarters of the land that made up Comancheria, mostly the underpopulated area the Comanche didn't really care about. Said land was parceled out to settlers of all races, even other Native Americans looking to move someplace different. The Comanche Wars would be the last time white man faced off against Native Americans on the battlefield for all time.

    [​IMG]
    Comanche warriors laying siege to the city of Amarillo, Cimarron Territory, ca. 1882

    After three hundred and ninety-three years of intermittent genocide and warfare, the European and African descendants of the United States had finally made peace with their predecessors, the American Indian. All was not forgiven. Most didn't think it ever could be. But with hope, and a lot of luck, the denizens of the Union could stride forward into tomorrow, together.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  9. Alexei Filipino Frick-Frack

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    What's the Situation in Hungary post-Independence? Are they struggling to survive or doing just fine?
     
  10. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    They're doing fine, though they're also trapped between a rock (Germany) and a hard place (Russia). Officially, Hungary is neutral, still vividly remembering Austrian domination and Russian intervention of days gone by, though they lean a little closer to Germany and America. (I wouldn't expect a lot of detail in the workings of Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, etc. from me ITTL as I wouldn't be able to do them justice.)
     
  11. Ironshark Well-Known Member

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    hey the word denizens remainded me

    Since Churchill in the opening quote says “men and woman alike”

    Will woman be allowed into the military sooner ITTL?

    Also nice to see Americans all United now
     
  12. Joriz Castillo Well-Known Member

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    Can we have a map of the situation now that it's been more than decade since the Civil War?
     
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  13. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Women will be allowed in the military earlier, and just in time for alt-WWII. America will be the first country to allow women to serve in the armed forces, with the second adopter only coming around to it in the 1980s.

    Yeah, I'm working on one. It'll be out tomorrow.
     
  14. AkulaKursk Well-Known Member

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    When you say woman in the military do you mean like, support positions and basically like all the different auxiliary roles they held in WW2, but like integrated into the Armed Forces proper? Or like full blown shoulder to shoulder with the male grunts in the mud and blood?
     
  15. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Most women won't be allowed to serve in the Army on the front lines, and won't be on the draft until the 1950s. But they'll be allowed to serve as full-blown pilots in the Air Force (created before alt-WWII ITTL, and can you say Amelia Earhart?), not just as WASPs, and in specific, segregated units in the Army, most often as snipers (like the Soviets did IOTL). But after alt-WWII, after women really show their stuff, they'll be added to the draft, and will serve side-by-side with men on the front lines through the 1950s onwards. (I should mention that the draft will still be terminated ITTL, too.)
     
  16. AkulaKursk Well-Known Member

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    Good to see that then. Amelia Earhart shooting down fascist Britons and Commie Frenchies will be good stuff to see.

    On the topic of the draft, might I add that perhaps consider still keeping it? I could see this more truly free America utilizing the draft and conscription as a way to better integrate new Americans and give young people a better sense of identity and service. Couple years in the Army, or perhaps opting to serve in the Peace Corps or a CCC type organization would do wonders and keep plenty of young people invested in this more perfect union.
     
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  17. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    In the latter days of the Cold War (By the way, does anyone have a better name as a replacement for "Cold War" that's roughly the same meaning but more original?), America is going to rapidly demilitarize as their arch-rival begins to fall apart at the seams and globalism is embraced. And going with it will be the draft, seen as an unneeded relic of the past.

    Also, as a young person myself, literally my worst nightmare is a reinstatement of the draft, even if it's done during peacetime. Losing a year of my life is not something I ever want to do, even if it's up to a lottery system.
     
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  18. Joriz Castillo Well-Known Member

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    The Great Game?
     
  19. AkulaKursk Well-Known Member

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    Second Great Game, Shadow War, Frozen Conflict? Cold synonym insert here, followed by war or game.

    As a young person as well I think we need a draft to whip these young whipper snappers into shape, but I get where your coming at.
     
  20. Ironshark Well-Known Member

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    how about “the shadow war “
     
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