A More Perfect Union: An Alternate History of the Land of the Free

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by HeX, May 22, 2019.

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  1. JustinianTheGrand Augustus

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    Didnt you say that the mainstream gay rights movement will take place in the 1960s? You could rework it to be about that.
     
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  2. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Germany will in general be nicer than their OTL counterparts, mostly for the reasons outlined by @SavoyTruffle (though I should add that the President of the Reichstag is not mandated to be Prussian--any German citizen can hold the position--and most of the Habsburg/Hohzenhollern compromise comes down to the splitting of the capital into three cities [legislative in Berlin, executive in Vienna, judicial in Frankfurt] and the decades of intermarriage between the royal lines). While Prussian influence is certainly easy to see in the German Army, it isn't overwhelming. They'll be on roughly the same "brutality level" as the Americans in the coming war, and the Americans will be less terrible than they were in the Falcon Uprising with Custer gone from the Army.

    Perhaps. What I might do is have the X-Men falter and die as IOTL, but not have that mid-1980s miracle that put them on the top of the newspaper stands and remain in Marvel's trash can. Around long enough to be relevant for the Gay Rights Movement, but fading soon after.
     
  3. MrVulcan Autistic Worldbuilder

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    Hey @HeX, I'm making a list of losing presidential candidates (as to see what a NWHF/FNM/INHOY-esque election game might look like in this timeline). Can you help me fill in the blanks?

    1788: Nobody
    1792: Nobody
    1796: Thomas Jefferson
    1800: John Adams
    1804: Charles Pinckney
    1808: James Madison
    1812: Unknown Dem-Rep
    1816: John Quincy Adams
    1820: Unknown Federalist
    1824: John Quincy Adams, Henry Clay, John C. Calhoun
    1828: John C. Calhoun
    1832: Henry Clay, John C. Calhoun
    1836: Henry Clay
    1840: Unknown Federalist
    1844: Amos Kendall
    1848: Unknown Dem-Rep
    1852: Unknown Federalist, Unknown Freedomite maybe?
    1856: Martin van Buren, John C. Fremont
    1860: Roger B. Taney, Jefferson Davis, John C. Breckinridge
    1864: Unknown Dem-Rep
    1868: Unknown Dem-Rep
    1872: Unknown Dem-Rep
    1876: Zebulon B. Vance
    1880: John P. Buchanan
    1884: John P. Buchanan
    1888: Frederick T. Frelinghuysen
    1892: James B. Weaver
    1896: John Creswell, Samuel Gompers
    1900: Arthur Sewall, Eugene V. Debs
    1904: Unknown Federalist, Eugene V. Debs
    1908: Charles Curtis, Eugene V. Debs
    1912: Eugene V. Debs, Benjamin Tillman, Xu Shichang
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  4. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Of course! Here's an amended list:

    1788: Nobody
    1792: Nobody
    1796: Thomas Jefferson
    1800: John Adams
    1804: Charles Pinckney
    1808: James Madison
    1812: James Madison
    1816: John Quincy Adams
    1820: Rufus King
    1824: John Quincy Adams, Henry Clay, John C. Calhoun
    1828: John C. Calhoun
    1832: Henry Clay, John C. Calhoun
    1836: Henry Clay
    1840: Henry Clay
    1844: Amos Kendall
    1848: Zachary Taylor
    1852: Winfield Scott, (No Freedomite here, as the party was founded in 1853)
    1856: Martin van Buren, John C. Fremont
    1860: Roger B. Taney, Jefferson Davis, John C. Breckinridge
    1864: George H. Pendleton
    1868: Francis Blair, Jr.
    1872: James A. Bayard
    1876: Zebulon B. Vance
    1880: John P. Buchanan
    1884: John P. Buchanan
    1888: Frederick T. Frelinghuysen
    1892: James B. Weaver
    1896: John Creswell, Samuel Gompers
    1900: Arthur Sewall, Eugene V. Debs
    1904: Richard Olney, Eugene V. Debs
    1908: Charles Curtis, Eugene V. Debs
    1912: Eugene V. Debs, Benjamin Tillman, Xu Shichang

    (Dont forget the accent mark over the "e" in "Frémont", by the way.)
     
  5. Simeon La empresa crecerá más grande

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    How about the class relations ITTL? I doubt that German democracy will make the socialists too chummy with the bourgeoisie, and the latter too kind with the former, and they had the largest population of socialists around this time IOTL. (Isn't it a plus for making Germany a challenger to American Revolutionary Spirit, no?) While the German people, with their enthusiasm sapped in the middle of the war, will still fight tooth and nail for the survival of their state, I doubt that they'll not be pissed off getting back to the working and living conditions they used to chaff upon.

    And more importantly, what before then? What has happened to Nietzche, and other German intellectuals? The virulently nationalistic Germans?
     
  6. Whiteshore Defender of Myrcella Baratheon

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    Is this based on the model South Africa has IOTL?
     
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  7. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Yes.
     
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  8. Israel_Dan the Man Well-Known Member

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    Which of the German cities will be largest? Also, how many people do you estimate Germany will have by 2020, and how many people do you think will be in their largest city
     
  9. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    In 1915, the most populous city is Berlin, at around 3.5 million. The Imperial Capital of Vienna's a close second, at 2.5 million.

    By 2025, Germany should have about 104,872,000 people, as it remains a larger nation and history was generally kinder to it (the World Wars and Phantom War will be less devastating to it here). Here's a rough estimate for the top seven German cities in 2025:

    1. Vienna (4.2 million)
    2. Berlin (3.8 million)
    3. Hamburg (2 million)
    4. Munich (1.6 million)
    5. Frankfurt (1.5 million)
    6. Prague (1.3 million)
    7. Cologne (1 million)
     
  10. SavoyTruffle I am the modren man

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    Speaking of Prague, how Germanized is Bohemia ITTL?
     
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  11. Israel_Dan the Man Well-Known Member

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    Wait @HeX , IIRC, Germany as of 1915 has 80-90 million people (excluding colonies), so if they have 104 million people 110 years later, that's some really low population growth! Also, are there any metro areas that have 10 million people or more?
     
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  12. SavoyTruffle I am the modren man

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    Aside from war fatalities, I'd assume Germany's hitting the demographic transition earlier than OTL a la France. @HeX can correct me on this.
     
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  13. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Germany of 1914/1915 had about 67 million people, so 104 million by 2025 seems pretty decent.
     
  14. KolyenuKS not a farmer I think

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    So speaking of World Wars and a phantom war (is that the cold war equivalent?), how peaceful will the world be in 2025? like on a scale of Generic pre 1900 isot to Nazi Victory (1-10)
    I could see an UN (Commonwealth of Nations has a nice ring to it imo) equivalent being set up like right after the 2nd world war as otl, but with China as the major opponent (according to the Walt Disney wiki page), I could see like a 7 perm and 14-21 temp, with the whole veto thing being more of a 2/3s majority between the perm (since a mega china having a veto on anything doesn't seem like a good idea)
     
  15. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Hmmm... I don't think I'm going to answer that yet (spoilers, ya know?). Just keep in mind that the world will certainly be very different by the modern day here than in OTL.

    I am planning on a UN equivalent showing up later, though the details on that are, of course, classified ATM.

    And, might I add, though you all have the correct general idea about part of the Phantom War (which is indeed the alternate Cold War), it will be far more different than the theories anyone here has posited so far.
     
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  16. farmerted555 Well-Known Member

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    The Phantom War is all about which is better: Coke or Pepsi.
     
  17. SavoyTruffle I am the modren man

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    Given what @HeX has implied, that's not too far from the truth. Instead of two diametrically opposed ideologies we have a low-key conflict between two blocs that theoretically believe in the same ideology, but interpreted in different ways, not unlike how Coke and Pepsi are both cola-derived beverages yet have their differences.
     
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  18. MrVulcan Autistic Worldbuilder

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    The Phantom War is going to be Overwatch vs TF2.

    Speaking of which, I wonder what Overwatch will look like in this timeline. The lore might be different with no MLKJ to base Tekhartha Mondatta off of.

    Also, fun fact, James B. Weaver was not only this timeline's first Populist president, but also their first president from a state west of the Mississippi River (Iowa).
     
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  19. Whiteshore Defender of Myrcella Baratheon

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    Well, the Phantom War is honestly closer to the Sino-Soviet Split as the Chinese and Americans are implied to be seeing each other as "heretics" who hate each other over different interpretations of Revolutionary Spirit.
     
  20. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    I believe you're talking about the Fanta War--only slightly more destructive than World War II, but hey, we got Supreme Lord Pepsiman out of it, so it wasn't all bad in the end.
     
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