A More Perfect Union: An Alternate History of the Land of the Free

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by HeX, May 22, 2019.

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  1. MrVulcan Autistic Worldbuilder

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    I sometimes wonder, "If the arrest of the Virginian Dem-Reps didn't happen, would Virginia have seceded?" "Would we not have Robert E. Lee's amazing leadership?" "Would the Confederates have won?"
    Then I remember, "Nah, the minorities would still rebel. Lee probably would've been forgiven a la James Longstreet ITTL."
     
  2. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    I suppose there would probably be three big alternate history focuses in this alternate America then:

    What if the South won the Civil War?

    This would be the most popular POD for AH in the world of AMPU, but unlike its OTL counterpart, writers would be far less kind to the Confederacy here. Mostly, AH would focus on the dissolution of a failed state, as the CSA falls apart and only survives into the twentieth century with significant aid from the British. Expect the Confederacy to collapse in the 1890s or 1900s due to a revolution led by oppressed Native Americans and African-Americans, and Union intervention in the revolution to kick off the Grand War a bit earlier. As for how this comes to be, I think the POD would be the election of a wishy-washy Northerner (George B. McClellan?) in 1860 as opposed to Lincoln (considering Honest Abe is considered nearly a demigod ITTL), and he would be less into the whole "civil war" thing, pretty much letting the South go without too much of a fight.

    What if the Falcon Uprising succeeded?
    This would be your pretty standard "Communist America" TL from our own world. Expect the USSA to be a miserable place, somewhere between Leninism and Stalinism on the OTL scale, led by the tyrannical Debs and the Council of Five Falcons as a coalition of Roosevelt, Churchill, Pershing (Custer would certainly be executed by Debs), and Gompers on the inside band together as the resistance. The Grand War would be lost by the League, and things would generally spiral out of control from there into dystopia. This might be the basis for a 1984-type story later on in the timeline. The POD would be the re-election of John Creswell in 1896 and the subsequent butterflication of the trust-busting of the People's Era, giving the Falconers more support around the country.

    What if the Entente won the Great War?
    Without giving too much away, picture the standard "Nazi victory" of OTL, but maximized.
     
  3. MrVulcan Autistic Worldbuilder

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    Heh. Butterflication.
     
  4. Born in the USSA Well-Known Member

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    My proposal would basically be one where the Falcons never secede, Roosevelt makes a few socialist concessions to keep them in the fold, and Wilson leads a putsch in the Dem-Reps and forms a Northwest Confederation, placing it outside your three main categories.
     
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  5. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    I like it! Other interesting PODs might be:

    • Ending the Canadian War (and with it, Britain's long descent into madness) prematurely by the letter that was supposed to get to President Hamilton actually reaching him instead of going down in a chance storm.
    • The Civil War starting in the 1820s during the Nullification Crisis.
    • Japan, not China, cozying up to the US.
    • America's interventions in the Great Troubles actually succeeding and starting a world war in the 1890s.
     
  6. alpal2214 Well-Known Member

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    I presume that the Grand and Great wars are one and the same, or are they analogous to OTL's WWI and WWII?
     
  7. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    The latter. To make things less of a mouthful, when referring to both conflicts at once they're called the "World Wars."
     
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  8. generalurist Map Staring Expert

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    Fuck, is the reputation of actual "full worker control of the means of production" Socialism that bad in TTL modern day? I was under the impression that the Falcon Uprising, and socialism as a whole, still had people sympathetic to it even in the modern day. (One of the names attributed to the Falcom Uprising was "the Second American Revolution", which made it sounds like more than just a lunatic fringe approved of it)

    EDIT: We didn't see much of the Falcon home front. While Total War inevitably made things nasty, just how tyrannical were they compared to the union?
     
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  9. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    It's not so much the reputation of socialism as the reputation of Debs and what I suppose you could call "Falconism." People of the modern day ITTL see Debs and the Council as traitors first and foremost, while Samuel Gompers championed "true American socialism."

    Hmm... well, most of their focus was funneled towards the front, so they couldn't afford the manpower to be totalitarian everywhere. Your really bad spots in a humanitarian sense would be places that were integral to the USSA war machine, including Chicago, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, and Detroit, as well as some of the more reluctant farmers in Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio, who were producing most of the food for the Great Lakes region once it seceded. The PNW was mostly a grassroots affair, so much so that everyday people in Douglass City or Salem could go about their business undisturbed regardless of their political affiliation while under Falconer rule. Texas and Pecos were somewhere in between the GLs and PNW when they were Red, but once the Republic of Texas came to be, centralized control pretty much dissolved.
     
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  10. generalurist Map Staring Expert

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    What is 'falconism' defined as iTTL? I had imagined they had some sympathy since the reds only lost the election due to the electoral collage, which you stated would get abolished later in the century- so I figured there would be sympathy for those cheated out of the presidency by it.
     
  11. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    "Falconism" is an anachronistic description of the politics of the USSA during the Falcon Uprising, used by future scholars and eventually the public. It's basically communism mixed with an oligarchy all beneath a dictatorship, as the Council of Five Falcons were despots and Debs was more powerful than they and a tyrant to boot once power went to his head. He about equates to American Lenin ITTL.
     
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  12. Philosopher Jaden Smith Unknown member

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    I’d imagine that American socialists would have a sort of “Lost Cause of the USSA” ideal.
     
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  13. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Only the very radical ones. I'm talking anarchists here. While the flag of the USSA and gear-and-hammer symbol will be co-opted by the modern Socialists, the USSA itself will be in the same boat as the Confederacy ITTL: confined to either the trash bin of history, or some weird corner of the Internet. Americans are as prideful of their nation ITTL as Texans are of Texas IOTL (but actually for good reason here), and the USSA and CSA are seen as affronts to American liberty and power.
     
  14. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

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    Here's the flag in question, by the way:

    [​IMG]

    Not my own creation, I should note. I found it on the Wikimedia Commons.
     
  15. Ironshark Well-Known Member

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    why must traitorous flags always look cool?
     
  16. USJ I am L.E.G.I.O.N

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    Obviously to tempt people to join the Dark Side by their awesomeness.
     
  17. Simeon La empresa crecerá más grande

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    And now, when I see this quote, I felt reminded how I’ve forgotten that I’m supposedly satisfied by this timeline.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  18. SavoyTruffle I am the modren man

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    Yeah, would be a good endgame for this TL: America HAS largely managed to live up to its ideal of freedom and the welfare of the common human being, but at what price?
     
  19. Simeon La empresa crecerá más grande

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    Reading about the OTL German atrocities in WW1 (which, contrary to popular belief even in this site, are quite verifiable), will Germany ITTL, while not as bloodthirsty and vengeful, have the same, or even more degree of liberal use of force the Americans used?
     
  20. SavoyTruffle I am the modren man

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    TTL Germany is a "compromise" Empire, where the Habsburgs hold the Imperial crown and the Prussians the Minister-President seat. Since Prussia and its militarism aren't as dominant and Germany united in a more peaceful manner, I'd assume TTL Germany has less blood on its hands. Not a saint, but not bloodthirsty.
     
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