A more Jewish Christianity

[Armilus]

The Council of Nicea 325 CE broke decisively the link between Christianity and Judaism, affirming the divinity of the Nazarene, the deselection of the Jews as the Chosen People, and the abbrogation of most of the 613 OT commandments as being unapplicable to Christians, except for 10 of them.

WI the council had retained as compulsory for Christians a few more of the more visually prominent Jewish commandments eg non eating of pork, sabbath on saturday, circumcision of males and daily phylacteries. Would the hostility towards Israel have remained or have been attenuated over the millenia? Any other departures from OTL?

 

[Brilliantlight]

The Council of Nicea 325 CE broke decisively the link between Christianity and Judaism, affirming the divinity of the Nazarene, the deselection of the Jews as the Chosen People, and the abbrogation of most of the 613 OT commandments as being unapplicable to Christians, except for 10 of them.

WI the council had retained as compulsory for Christians a few more of the more visually prominent Jewish commandments eg non eating of pork, sabbath on saturday, circumcision of males and daily phylacteries. Would the hostility towards Israel have remained or have been attenuated over the millenia? Any other departures from OTL?

There would have probably have been far fewer Christians as people would have to sacrafice things to become one.

 

[WngMasterD]

I think i would enjoy that form much more than the one im in now.

Id imagine that the chrisitan church would resemble the messianic congregations of today (no duh Me). IT is true that the conversion rate would have benn much smaller, unless a certain emporer orederd evryone to convert.

Im more intrested in, what if they only cut off a few things (circumsision), but kept the 613 commandments. Id imagine there still might be anti-semitism around.

 

[MerryPrankster]

To get something like this, you might have to do something about Paul, who taught that the Law had been fulfilled and the Gentile believers did not hae to obey it. You might even have to get rid of Peter (in Acts, he has a vision where God tells him that the food laws no longer apply).

Heck, you might even have to change Jesus. IIRC he said something that was goes in (and then out) of a man (food) doesn't harm the soul, it's sin (coming from within the soul) that does. That nixes the food laws.

Now, to have a stronger Jewish presence among the early Christians, perhaps have the bulk of the Jewish Christians not get scattered or destroyed by the Roman re-conquest of Judea in 66 AD. Preserve a few sizable congregations in the Holy Land and they'll have a good bit more influence than in OTL.

 

[Tom_B]

To get something like this, you might have to do something about Paul, who taught that the Law had been fulfilled and the Gentile believers did not hae to obey it. You might even have to get rid of Peter (in Acts, he has a vision where God tells him that the food laws no longer apply).

Heck, you might even have to change Jesus. IIRC he said something that was goes in (and then out) of a man (food) doesn't harm the soul, it's sin (coming from within the soul) that does. That nixes the food laws.

Now, to have a stronger Jewish presence among the early Christians, perhaps have the bulk of the Jewish Christians not get scattered or destroyed by the Roman re-conquest of Judea in 66 AD. Preserve a few sizable congregations in the Holy Land and they'll have a good bit more influence than in OTL.

These are god points. Nicea is way to late for Christianity to discover a Kosher identity.

Something I came up with on another thread--WI James the Just lived longer would be more promising in this regards. I am tempted to flesh that one out in a seperate thread.

 

[WngMasterD]

To get something like this, you might have to do something about Paul, who taught that the Law had been fulfilled and the Gentile believers did not hae to obey it.

.

The ironic thing is that Jesus said that the Mosaic laws were still intact and anyone who said otherwise was... well... not in a really good situtaion

Mat. 5: 17-20 NKJV


"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[MerryPrankster]

"I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."

Key phrase "to fulfill." The notion of the Jewish Messiah destroying the Law is one thing, but the Law serving its purpose and being "retired" is something else entirely.

"For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

He was talking about how one would need to obey the Law perfectly in order to enter Heaven by one's own merits; not even the legalistic Pharisees could pull that off.

 

[DuQuense]

During the Revolt of 76 ad the Christians remembering Jesus's 'Render onto Caeser' Refused to join the revolt, and were driven out of Jeluseum by the other Jews. If they join the revolt, they remain one of the cults of Judism.

 

[WngMasterD]

SOrry, i know what he ment by the pharises bit, i left that in by mistake.


He said "one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. " which kind implies that there was more to be fufilled, or at least to me it does, and the law isnt quired retired yet

 

[MerryPrankster]

Duquesne,

How will a surviving Jewish Church in Jerusalem interact with the largely-Gentile Christian groups that were appearing then? At this point, there were good-sized concentrations in Egypt and in Carthage (in my History of Islam in Africa class, we had a map showing the spread of Christianity in northern Africa and there was a bit blot in the Nile Delta and another big blot in Carthage in the First Century).

Also, if the Jewish Christians participate more in the 66 AD Jewish Revolt, how will the Romans treat Gentile Christians? Will the persecutions begin earlier, at a level that could seriously threaten to wipe out Christianity?

Also, did the Romans scatter the Jews throughout the Empire in the aftermath of the revolt? I'd heard that was how a large Jewish populace ended up in North Africa. If the Jewish Christians get scattered too (if they participate in the Revolt), might there be more Jewish influence on the Gentile chuches? They'd be in a new place and hear about a Christian group, and go there.

 

[DuQuense]

IIRC it wasn't a planned Scattering, more a fleeing in desperation. maybe the Fleeing Christian Judes Mix with the other Judes and with the Gentiles. Anti- Christianism takes the place of anti- Semitism.

 

[JimmyJimJam]

WI the council had retained as compulsory for Christians a few more of the more visually prominent Jewish commandments eg non eating of pork, sabbath on saturday, circumcision of males and daily phylacteries. Would the hostility towards Israel have remained or have been attenuated over the millenia? Any other departures from OTL?

European males without foreskins today.