A More Involved Map Challenge
- Thread starter Diamond
- Start date
This may inspire me to rewrite my timeline on all European myths about the Americas being true...Diamond said:Thank you.
Good point about the Anglo-Dutch wars - I hadn't considered that...
Gah. So many choices - come on people, more ideas!
(Realm of the Flowers;
second POD;(because the first is how the new world exsists as the world of treasures...)
Ponce de León finds the Fountain of Youth in Florida, building a Kingdom on the Caribbean sea... the Kingdom Everlasting...Bimini )
Othniel said:No, that would just take an Duitch victory in the Anglo-Dutch wars...
I'd have to agree here as they nearly took it back otl as it was but chose not to. Had it remained Dutch to the time of William and Mary it would almost certainly have endured as a Dutch colony.
Nya Sverige: The dutch though did maintain some autonomy for the Swedes and Finns when they took over so it simply has to persist under Dutch rule and expand to the West coast of Chesapeake. No Maryland colony though for Lord Baltimore. though in this TL. at least not on the Chesapeake. Would a successor Dutch colony though adopt Christiania ( Which was the name of town not a terr.)as the name of their state or name it after the Bay instead or some other suitable Indian name ... something in say Lenni-Lenape. What would be their equivalent of Wabanakia.
About Acadia, this only I think applied to the coast north of Virginia not the interior. the St Lawrence valley was named Canada when Cartier met the St. Lawrence Iroquois. Thus, it is still likely to be the name of the Terr.on the St. Lawrence Valley, provided your looking at earlier or stronger French settlement centred initially on this region it will be the the name of the terr. thus Cartier Cannot have sailed. Which in turn probably means all the voyages of discovery have been delayed, as Cartier's voyages were prompted in large part by the earlier discoveries of Columbus, Cabot and Verrazano to name but a few.
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I'll be damned if I can explain the Free City of Montreal. 1, 2, and 3 are easy, though. 1: An internally divided Britain leaves no one to challenge the Netherlands' claim to this plumb piece of real estate until the British recover enough to grant William Penn his territory. The Dutch, IIRC, were much nicer to the Indians than they were to the Africans, and the Quakers loved the Indians. Without the massive influx of immigrants and the consequent stepping up of the British force in Pennsylvania, the Iroqois are in an excellent position to have their demand for autonomy respected. In time, their population should recover from ~20k to the ~200k that it probably was at its peak, so that they are able to take advantage of the Industrial Revolution and cement their nationhood. The same is true of Pontiac -- without British forces to worry about, and with the accomodationist French and Dutch on their north, they can easily keep their civilization. The Illinois are a much less civilized tribe in OTL 1800, but it's not as if they're knuckle-draggers; they had the Great Mound City of Cahokia in ~1000 AD. So by the time white settlers reach them ~1850, they have recovered with Pontiac help.
Moving on ... Christiana is a perfectly fine name for a Catholic colony, and Oriana simply refers to Queen Elizabeth of England instead of King George, so not much changes in the founding stories there. Same in New England, where a simple butterfly could have kept the Plymouth colony from merging with the Mass colony.
A slightly weaker England would get to the Caribbean late, too, or in the alternative be more willing to cede Caribbean territory to resolve the wars of the 1700s and 1800s. With more territory, France is better able to prevent the rebellion of Haiti.
As for why Tejas rebels and becomes independent, I suppose that it's a bit of geographical determinism -- it would be more likely, as in OTL, to draw immigrants than the rest of Mexico, and therefore would be less Spanish-speaking (although it could easily be German-speaking or French-speaking immigrants, rather than English-speaking immigrants, who start the revolution).
Moving on ... Christiana is a perfectly fine name for a Catholic colony, and Oriana simply refers to Queen Elizabeth of England instead of King George, so not much changes in the founding stories there. Same in New England, where a simple butterfly could have kept the Plymouth colony from merging with the Mass colony.
A slightly weaker England would get to the Caribbean late, too, or in the alternative be more willing to cede Caribbean territory to resolve the wars of the 1700s and 1800s. With more territory, France is better able to prevent the rebellion of Haiti.
As for why Tejas rebels and becomes independent, I suppose that it's a bit of geographical determinism -- it would be more likely, as in OTL, to draw immigrants than the rest of Mexico, and therefore would be less Spanish-speaking (although it could easily be German-speaking or French-speaking immigrants, rather than English-speaking immigrants, who start the revolution).
Sure. The biggest issue I think would be that Virginia had claimed most if not all of Maryland stemming from the original London Company grant. Virginia, though slow to start growing, began to do so, especially in coastal areas, at a quick rate. Western and Central (even Eastern, really) Maryland, as part of Virginia, would oblend rather well into the rest of the colony. Additionally, in OTL, Virginia still holds the lower Delmarva, and was arguably the keystone colony of the British Empire in North America in the 1600's.Diamond said:
Consider also that "New Sweden" was never ever that large, or that well-supported, unlike Virginia.
Diamond
Banned
Let us hearken back, my friends, to my original post, wherein these words could be found:
Maybe I was less than clear. This was meant to be a challenge, and since this is an alternate history board, I would think that it is possible for someone to create a set of circumstances where Virginia can co-exist with a nation called Christiana. There was no POD given. There were no limitations given, except that the end result should be the map in the first post.
So yes, maybe I was less than clear. But somehow, I don't think so.
Gaaaah.
Diamond said:
Maybe I was less than clear. This was meant to be a challenge, and since this is an alternate history board, I would think that it is possible for someone to create a set of circumstances where Virginia can co-exist with a nation called Christiana. There was no POD given. There were no limitations given, except that the end result should be the map in the first post.
So yes, maybe I was less than clear. But somehow, I don't think so.
Gaaaah.
Charles III??? A legitimate son of Charles II or Bonnie Prince Charlie after a succesful Jacobite takeover?? Funnily enough in my part of Britain having a black cat cross your path is considered good luck. I agree with you about the naming of wars. I always call the War of 1812 "Mr Madison's War" which is what the New England Federalists called itOthniel said:
Hmm, now for a POD...
Charles the third crossed the Black cat's path, cursing Britian to lose all of the French and Indian Wars, and so forth and so on...
I had no problem with their coexistence, just their borders.Diamond said:Let us hearken back, my friends, to my original post, wherein these words could be found:
Maybe I was less than clear. This was meant to be a challenge, and since this is an alternate history board, I would think that it is possible for someone to create a set of circumstances where Virginia can co-exist with a nation called Christiana. There was no POD given. There were no limitations given, except that the end result should be the map in the first post.
So yes, maybe I was less than clear. But somehow, I don't think so.
Gaaaah.
I for one would like to here some of the reasons that might punk(?) England for a bit.... Cuz I have to write a paper on it
The fact of the matter is that England was on the cutting edge of a variety of technological endeavours(?) I'm very interested in what might have happened if they had a wee bit less of a head start, and, what might have caused that?
Shameless search for dirt for my paper
The fact of the matter is that England was on the cutting edge of a variety of technological endeavours(?) I'm very interested in what might have happened if they had a wee bit less of a head start, and, what might have caused that?
Shameless search for dirt for my paper