A more efficient Axis from the start

Wow, what a striking example of historical misconception, no Polish forces escaped to west through Slovakia. They went through Romania which had 349 km border with Poland.

Indeed. Was there not also a very minor trickle through Lithuania and Hungary?

In any case, the Germans didn't want a Hungarian border, precisely because they didn't think the Hungarians would close it.
 
Polish forces where ordered to retreate south, crossing German axis of advance, mererly as an excuse.
Polish governement did not intend to continue the fight in the south of Poland but to go further, to flee their own country.
Moscow sent a telegram to Warsaw, informing that the Red Army was going to cross the border and offered to stop the move if the Polish governement issued a refusal, but there was no longer anyone high enough to receive and act uppon it...
 

DAMIENEVIL

Banned
I think the only way for Hitler to be more efficient, is for him and Mussolini on September 1st, 1939, while walking up a flight of stairs in Berchtesgaden fall off.

Both hit their heads, and all of a sudden gain common sense and listen to their Generals.

do this after the fall of france and you have a better shot since it was hitler who was able to get a better plan and beat france rather quickly. Yes it was not his idea but part of leadership is picking he right ideas
 
Hitler could buy Hungarya with Croatia (or most of it), rather than Slovakia, that way, the country would have sea acess.

filllllllllllller

thread_necromancer.png
 
Just out of curiosity, why do some authors assume that once Spain joins the Axis, it would seek immediately invade, if not outright annex Portugal? The Portuguese Estado Novo under Salazar was a proto-fascist regime, to put it kindly. While not an ally of Hitler, Salazar was certainly sympathetic, and did not do much more than necessary to assist the Allies. Why take the risk to replace a neutral/leaning Axis regime? Without vastly expanded naval power, the Axis could never hope to secure Azores, and the situation in Manstein in Africa that led to the capture of the Azores was a bit fortuitous.

As for Spain, why would Franco want to take on his former backer? Franco would not have triumphed in the civil war without the assistance of Salazar, something he must have been aware of. The Estado Novo and the "Spanish State" were near ideological clones. Spain and Portugal have only a few border disputes, none of which are outstanding in Portugal's favor.

Far more likely, in my opinion, would be the Portuguese being bullied into a Pro-Axis stance rather than being invaded. It would probably cost them their African colonial empire, but given the choice between being invaded, and being (temporarily) deprived of its Empire, I think Portugal pay that price for its continued independence.
 
Just out of curiosity, why do some authors assume that once Spain joins the Axis, it would seek immediately invade, if not outright annex Portugal? The Portuguese Estado Novo under Salazar was a proto-fascist regime, to put it kindly. While not an ally of Hitler, Salazar was certainly sympathetic, and did not do much more than necessary to assist the Allies. Why take the risk to replace a neutral/leaning Axis regime? Without vastly expanded naval power, the Axis could never hope to secure Azores, and the situation in Manstein in Africa that led to the capture of the Azores was a bit fortuitous.

As for Spain, why would Franco want to take on his former backer? Franco would not have triumphed in the civil war without the assistance of Salazar, something he must have been aware of. The Estado Novo and the "Spanish State" were near ideological clones. Spain and Portugal have only a few border disputes, none of which are outstanding in Portugal's favor.

Far more likely, in my opinion, would be the Portuguese being bullied into a Pro-Axis stance rather than being invaded. It would probably cost them their African colonial empire, but given the choice between being invaded, and being (temporarily) deprived of its Empire, I think Portugal pay that price for its continued independence.


Two reasons I can think of

1. Portugal has valuable mineral mining deposits (although with Spain in the axis, they might grant the axis most favored trading partner type rights in return for remaining independent)

2. Portugal's territory would be very helpful for the battle of the atlantic and or disrupting/delaying convoys headed around the cape
 
Pure, 100% Eurofed.


Eurofed will simply rail at how unjust it is that the UK, attacked by WMD, decides to retaliate, and postulate that the UK will, for reasons unknown to all except him, would surrender after suffering large numbers of civilian casualties in lieu of retaliation.


Because, after all, hitting the UK with Nerve Gas is a winning move. It's so simple! It would take heavy nuclear attack to make Fascist Italy surrender, but those Brits are such pansies that a good drubbing will make them throw in the towel!


Then we can have all of Europe united by someone like Heydrich, Hans Frank or someone even scarier. Its a utopian scenario where the United States just builds ICBMs until Europe runs out of money, or slave laborers.
 

Eurofed

Banned
Two reasons I can think of

1. Portugal has valuable mineral mining deposits (although with Spain in the axis, they might grant the axis most favored trading partner type rights in return for remaining independent)

2. Portugal's territory would be very helpful for the battle of the atlantic and or disrupting/delaying convoys headed around the cape

All true, not to mention that fascist regimes are usually big on irredentist claims, and unity of the Iberian peninsula is a natural for a Spanish regime, plus for Hitler and Mussolini it is a way of satisfying Spanish ambitions that does not impinge on the turfs of other valuable Axis members, like Vichy France.

Oh, for anyone that cares to know, the ideas originally exposed in this thread were a kind of tentative (and sometimes naive) laundry list for an Axis victory scenario. Over time, they got further thought and refining and some of them eventually got developed to complete TL fulfillment in "The Long Night Falls". It is actually faintly enbarassing to have this old thread dug up.
 
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Sure is a lot of Eurofed bashing going around here.

I am off course new in this forum, and not aware of feuds lying in the past.....but I joined because this is an ALTERNATE history forum, where you can try out alternate versions of history without being accused of being facist, communist, an idiot...etc. you get my drift properly....so what it some of the theories are a bit "thin"!!

I hope to put out my own TL at some point...and will of course be anxious to see its' reception....which I hope will be fair and constructive..and not accuse me of being something I am not, just because my TL might vary from somebodys point of view.

Anyway I love this forum....and do not plan to be involved in anything else than constructive dialogue with other members.
 
Hitler could buy Hungarya with Croatia (or most of it), rather than Slovakia, that way, the country would have sea acess.

If you're going to bump a year-old thread, make sure you have something substantial to add next time.

filllllllllllller

That wasn't necessary. Don't do it again.0

Pure, 100% Eurofed.


Eurofed will simply rail at how unjust it is that the UK, attacked by WMD, decides to retaliate, and postulate that the UK will, for reasons unknown to all except him, would surrender after suffering large numbers of civilian casualties in lieu of retaliation.


Because, after all, hitting the UK with Nerve Gas is a winning move. It's so simple! It would take heavy nuclear attack to make Fascist Italy surrender, but those Brits are such pansies that a good drubbing will make them throw in the towel!


Then we can have all of Europe united by someone like Heydrich, Hans Frank or someone even scarier. Its a utopian scenario where the United States just builds ICBMs until Europe runs out of money, or slave laborers.

There are a lot of ways you could have called this scenario ridiculous without resorting to personal attacks.
 
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