A modern British motor car!
- Thread starter DMA
- Start date
A real MG launched about the same time as the MX5 and with something approaching Japanese/German build quality. You might start by keeping the MG works at Abingdon open, IIRC MG build quality declined sharply when Abingdon was closed.
Every time I see an MX5/Miata I think "That's the British car the Japanese had the guts to build." Sad really.
Every time I see an MX5/Miata I think "That's the British car the Japanese had the guts to build." Sad really.
You wouldn't want to taint Japanese build quality with German. Of the ten most called out to cars by the recovery companies in the UK most are the much vaunted BMW, Mercs. and Audi/VWs. The ten least called out to are ALL Japanese.
Thatcher sells British Leyland to the private sector in 1982, but keeps a deal going that British Investors must always own a majority of the company. A group led by Jaguar founder Sir William Lyons, McLaren F1 boss Ron Dennis and auto journalists Peter Dron and Martin Buckley lead groups of people that buy the company. They immediately get to work on programs to rebuild the model range.
The Triumph Dolomite Sprint stays in production until 1984, when its successor, the Triumph Hunter, enters production. A small sedan with a powerful Jaguar-designed straight six, The Hunter becomes the BMW of its era. BMC re-enters the US market in 1986, with the Hunter leading the way. MG that year introduces its successor to the MGB, the MGF. A small, light roadster with a dirt-cheap price tag and great performance, the car along with the Mazda MX-5 Miata (launched in 1988 to run with the MGF in this TL) rebuilds the sportscar market in North America and Europe.
The Rover P7 replaces the aging SD1 in 1986, and it comes out as a handsome sedan with a supercharged version of the Rover V8, making a standard 275 horsepower. A V12 version is not far off. The P7, and its smaller models, starting at the 25, and going through 45, 75 and Standard, prove to be smartly-designed cars with plenty of curb appeal.
Rover jumps into new turf in 1984, when the first Rover people mover, the Rover Carrier, enters production almost simultaneously with the Renault Espace and Chrysler Voyager. The Carrier gains a repute for being better built than the Voyager and more stylish than the mundane Espace. It sells incredibly well, with more than a million units around the world built before an all-new Carrier is launched in 1993.
At the same time, BL's new owners make it clear that without major improvements in the way the cars are built and the company is run that bringing moribund BL back to prosperity is next to impossible. Union resistance fades rapidly, and build quality becomes a major focal point for the cars' improvement.
The new Mini arrives in 1996 as a direct competitor to Renault's Twingo in the prize fight for small car supremacy. The new mini gains a repute for being just as much fun to drive as the old one, if considerably more plush and comfortable. (And expensive.)
Rover buys into Chrysler corporation in 1997, and gains a controlling interest in 2004. American legislation stops an outright takeover. That same year, Peter Dron retires to a heroes' thank you - and a knighthood.
Rover ups the ante in touring car racing, winning the World Touring Car Championship in 1988 with the P7's V12 version, and repeating in 1991 with the Triumph Millenia, the simple, light Triumph outgunning the powerful Ford Sierra Cosworth and technically advanced Nissan Skyline GT-R. Jaguar debuts its new Le Mans car at the Canadian World Sportscar round in 1985, and Jaguar wins Le Mans in 1988 and 1990.
Following the 1990 Le Mans win, Jaguar goes for the brass ring and buys out Benetton's F1 operation. The Jaguar F1 operation is led by Gordon Murray and Jackie Stewart, and the Jags win the world title in 1994 and 1995 driven by Michael Schumacher and Johnny Herbert. Schumacher's going to Ferrari in 1996 sees Jag focus on winning with British drivers. Damon Hill, David Coulthard, Justin Wilson, Dan Wheldon, Dario Franchitti, Adam Carroll, Allan McNish, Eddie Irvine and Lewis Hamilton all drive for the green cars over time. Jaguar and Coulthard narrowly lose the 1997 World Title to Williams and Jacques Villeneuve, but return to race-winning prominence in 1999. Coulthard, Wilson, Franchitti and Herbert win races for them from 1999 to 2007.
Jaguar's all-British 2008 squad - Lewis Hamilton, Justin Wilson and Katherine Legge - lock horns with a rejuvenated Ferrari and come out with their third world title and Hamilton's first. Wilson's crash at the race in Argentina breaks both legs and ends his title chances, but Legge steps in well and plays number two well, and she becomes the first ever female F1 winner with a dominating performance on home ground at Silverstone.
Through it all, the most famous auto plants in Britain stay operational. In 2007, aside from the CityRover (which is assembled in Canada) and the Outback (built in Australia for the Aussie market) all of BL's lineup is built in Great Britain. BL employs over 210,000 people, 2/3 of those in Britain. "Britain's Car Company" is well-known worldwide, though its third-world market sales are hindered by third-world demands for local manufacture.
The Triumph Dolomite Sprint stays in production until 1984, when its successor, the Triumph Hunter, enters production. A small sedan with a powerful Jaguar-designed straight six, The Hunter becomes the BMW of its era. BMC re-enters the US market in 1986, with the Hunter leading the way. MG that year introduces its successor to the MGB, the MGF. A small, light roadster with a dirt-cheap price tag and great performance, the car along with the Mazda MX-5 Miata (launched in 1988 to run with the MGF in this TL) rebuilds the sportscar market in North America and Europe.
The Rover P7 replaces the aging SD1 in 1986, and it comes out as a handsome sedan with a supercharged version of the Rover V8, making a standard 275 horsepower. A V12 version is not far off. The P7, and its smaller models, starting at the 25, and going through 45, 75 and Standard, prove to be smartly-designed cars with plenty of curb appeal.
Rover jumps into new turf in 1984, when the first Rover people mover, the Rover Carrier, enters production almost simultaneously with the Renault Espace and Chrysler Voyager. The Carrier gains a repute for being better built than the Voyager and more stylish than the mundane Espace. It sells incredibly well, with more than a million units around the world built before an all-new Carrier is launched in 1993.
At the same time, BL's new owners make it clear that without major improvements in the way the cars are built and the company is run that bringing moribund BL back to prosperity is next to impossible. Union resistance fades rapidly, and build quality becomes a major focal point for the cars' improvement.
The new Mini arrives in 1996 as a direct competitor to Renault's Twingo in the prize fight for small car supremacy. The new mini gains a repute for being just as much fun to drive as the old one, if considerably more plush and comfortable. (And expensive.)
Rover buys into Chrysler corporation in 1997, and gains a controlling interest in 2004. American legislation stops an outright takeover. That same year, Peter Dron retires to a heroes' thank you - and a knighthood.
Rover ups the ante in touring car racing, winning the World Touring Car Championship in 1988 with the P7's V12 version, and repeating in 1991 with the Triumph Millenia, the simple, light Triumph outgunning the powerful Ford Sierra Cosworth and technically advanced Nissan Skyline GT-R. Jaguar debuts its new Le Mans car at the Canadian World Sportscar round in 1985, and Jaguar wins Le Mans in 1988 and 1990.
Following the 1990 Le Mans win, Jaguar goes for the brass ring and buys out Benetton's F1 operation. The Jaguar F1 operation is led by Gordon Murray and Jackie Stewart, and the Jags win the world title in 1994 and 1995 driven by Michael Schumacher and Johnny Herbert. Schumacher's going to Ferrari in 1996 sees Jag focus on winning with British drivers. Damon Hill, David Coulthard, Justin Wilson, Dan Wheldon, Dario Franchitti, Adam Carroll, Allan McNish, Eddie Irvine and Lewis Hamilton all drive for the green cars over time. Jaguar and Coulthard narrowly lose the 1997 World Title to Williams and Jacques Villeneuve, but return to race-winning prominence in 1999. Coulthard, Wilson, Franchitti and Herbert win races for them from 1999 to 2007.
Jaguar's all-British 2008 squad - Lewis Hamilton, Justin Wilson and Katherine Legge - lock horns with a rejuvenated Ferrari and come out with their third world title and Hamilton's first. Wilson's crash at the race in Argentina breaks both legs and ends his title chances, but Legge steps in well and plays number two well, and she becomes the first ever female F1 winner with a dominating performance on home ground at Silverstone.
Through it all, the most famous auto plants in Britain stay operational. In 2007, aside from the CityRover (which is assembled in Canada) and the Outback (built in Australia for the Aussie market) all of BL's lineup is built in Great Britain. BL employs over 210,000 people, 2/3 of those in Britain. "Britain's Car Company" is well-known worldwide, though its third-world market sales are hindered by third-world demands for local manufacture.
Another possibility could revolve around Ford UK. Yes, I know, it's a subsidiary of an American company, but Ford UK was (and still is) more or less different from Ford North America. Back in the 1970's, Ford UK's lineup had the Fiesta, Escort, Cortina (Taunus in Continental Europe), Granada, and the Capri.
However, by this time the lineups of the various European countries were starting to consolidate themselves, and thus with this harmonization, the unique lineups that each country had were no more. So no more models like the Ford Consul or Ford Anglia would be produced. Dagenham would eventually, in OTL, build the Escort, and then reduce itself to just an engine plant.
However, let's try something different here, a British compact car that would replace the Escort. Designed and built in Britain.
I have an idea!
In Japan, Mazda was building a car called the Familia (known also as the 323, the Etude in South Africa, and in North America as the Protegé). It is known especially among petrolheads in North America for its spirited handling. I don't know what the reputation of the 323 was in Europe (other than that it was Japanese). Starting around the 1970s, American manufacturers decided to import Japanese cars to get a "small car" in their lineup for the most part (i.e. Chrysler and Mitsubishi, GM and Suzuki, Ford and Mazda, etc.) So what if this idea was transplanted to the UK BUT with some modifications? That is the basis of this idea.
Here, the butterfly is somewhere around the 1970s, say around 1977-1979.
Say some Ford UK engineers decide to take a trip to the Mazda factory in Hiroshima. They see the fourth-generation Familia being built, and they fall in love. However, the engineers knew that if it was found out that Ford UK was building a badge-engineered Japanese car (i.e. like the Ford Laser in the Asia-Pacific region) then a lot of people, especially politicans, would be angry. So what happens is that Ford UK and Mazda collaborate on replacements for the Escort (for Ford) and the fourth-generation Familia (for Mazda), designing and testing it mainly in the UK (but also with some testing in Japan). The new model would retain the Familia name with Mazda, but Ford UK would revert to the Anglia name with this one. The target date for relase would be in 1980.
The new model would exhibit some of the radicalness of the Ford Sierra, which would be built two years later. On the inside, Mazda and Ford engineers designed new engines just for this car. This new engine series, known as "Zetec" (originally called Zeta but the name changed at the last minute to avoid being sued by Lancia), would replace Ford's metric engine (aka the one found in the Pinto) and Mazda's engine family for the Familia. A departure from previous Ford engines was that it was modular, so that it Ford UK wanted to, Zetec engines could be shortened to fit into the Fiesta, or legnthened to fit in the Cortina. This was a radical departure from how engines had been done previously, and it was one Ford UK and Mazda was willing to exploit.
The only difference was the exterior and interior. Mazda still used its own designers for designing the exterior and interior (though everything else was the same), and Ford wanted to test the public's reaction with a new style of design before the release of the Sierra, using Ghia designers. Ford used the following trim lineup for the Anglia:
Popular
Bonus
L
DL
GL
Ghia
Zetec
"Zetec" was Ford's answer to the Volkswagen Golf GTI. Eventually, Ford-Werke AG found out about Ford UK's project and wanted to jump on board. Thus, Ford built RHD versions of the Anglia and LHD versions (still known as the Escort) for Continental Europe. Ford USA wanted to build a version for North America. Government regulation and separate engineering organizations initially made it impratical, but Ford found a way around it by sending copies of the blueprints to North America, including that of the new Zetec engine. The only difference between the North American Escort and the European Escort was that the engines were slightly modified to comply with California and EPA regulations, and Ford USA's Special Vehicle Operations, with the help of Ford UK, found a way of making a "mini-Mustang" out of the Escort.
First, some of the components of the Fox platform were used in the Escort. This included the front and rear suspension. Then, Ford USA decided to try to tweak the Zetec engine using the knowhow they had gained from the Mustang engines, especially the BOSS 302 engine, and managed to get even-more powerful versions of the Zetec engine then what was initially expected. The interior was also modified to give it a sporty appearance. In North America, this variant became known as the EXP and built in North America. Generally, though, North American Escorts were still primarily conservative in design, though the European interior remained intact. It was primarily built in Oakville, Ontario with a 3-door, 5-door, and wagon model being offered. Thus, they looked like in OTL:
A mid-life refreshment brought the styling in line with it's European counterpart.
As mentioned before, the Anglia and the third-generation European Escorts were built in the UK, and looked similar to the Ford Sierra that would follow two years later. The "American" version was also built in the UK, called the Zetec. Ford UK slightly modified the Zetec to suit British regulations and also introduced turbocharging onto the Zetec engine. The EXP/RS used a 2.0L turbocharged engine, whilst the "American" 1.9L engine was also standard on the Ghia yet optional for the other trim levels. The other engines were those designed jointly by Ford UK and Mazda, in 1.1L, 1.3L, and 1.6L configurations. From the outset, it was offered as a saloon, estate car, estate van, and also in 3-door and 5-door configurations. Eventually, a cabrio version was offered by Karmann through a joint-venture (and built in a brand-new facility in Solihull), and imported in limited numbers to North America.
Picture of the Sierra:
The Mazda version was similar to OTL, so no big changes there.
So, the new Anglia/Familia was released in 1980, with the Ford version built in Dagenham and the Mazda version in Hiroshima. Initially, it didn't sell very well, which sent a signal to Ford that for the Sierra, the design should be toned down a bit. However, the Anglia/Escort Zetec proved to be a huge seller for Ford, with many car magazines favourably comparing it to the GTI. Ford USA also saw some big sales for the Escort EXP. Thus, the Anglia managed to survive to 1985. In 1985, the Anglia and Familia were given a mid-life refreshment, including ABS, 4-wheel disc brakes and the invention of ESP, co-invented with Bosch. ESP was initially avaliable on the Ghia and the Zetec (which was now equipped with permanent 4WD), but by 1987 it was avaliable throughout the entire Anglia lineup. Ford toned down the Anglia design a bit to match it with the Sierra. The refreshed version lasted until 1990. As before, the Anglia/Escort was built in Dagenham.
To be continued, . . .
However, by this time the lineups of the various European countries were starting to consolidate themselves, and thus with this harmonization, the unique lineups that each country had were no more. So no more models like the Ford Consul or Ford Anglia would be produced. Dagenham would eventually, in OTL, build the Escort, and then reduce itself to just an engine plant.
However, let's try something different here, a British compact car that would replace the Escort. Designed and built in Britain.
I have an idea!
In Japan, Mazda was building a car called the Familia (known also as the 323, the Etude in South Africa, and in North America as the Protegé). It is known especially among petrolheads in North America for its spirited handling. I don't know what the reputation of the 323 was in Europe (other than that it was Japanese). Starting around the 1970s, American manufacturers decided to import Japanese cars to get a "small car" in their lineup for the most part (i.e. Chrysler and Mitsubishi, GM and Suzuki, Ford and Mazda, etc.) So what if this idea was transplanted to the UK BUT with some modifications? That is the basis of this idea.
Here, the butterfly is somewhere around the 1970s, say around 1977-1979.
Say some Ford UK engineers decide to take a trip to the Mazda factory in Hiroshima. They see the fourth-generation Familia being built, and they fall in love. However, the engineers knew that if it was found out that Ford UK was building a badge-engineered Japanese car (i.e. like the Ford Laser in the Asia-Pacific region) then a lot of people, especially politicans, would be angry. So what happens is that Ford UK and Mazda collaborate on replacements for the Escort (for Ford) and the fourth-generation Familia (for Mazda), designing and testing it mainly in the UK (but also with some testing in Japan). The new model would retain the Familia name with Mazda, but Ford UK would revert to the Anglia name with this one. The target date for relase would be in 1980.
The new model would exhibit some of the radicalness of the Ford Sierra, which would be built two years later. On the inside, Mazda and Ford engineers designed new engines just for this car. This new engine series, known as "Zetec" (originally called Zeta but the name changed at the last minute to avoid being sued by Lancia), would replace Ford's metric engine (aka the one found in the Pinto) and Mazda's engine family for the Familia. A departure from previous Ford engines was that it was modular, so that it Ford UK wanted to, Zetec engines could be shortened to fit into the Fiesta, or legnthened to fit in the Cortina. This was a radical departure from how engines had been done previously, and it was one Ford UK and Mazda was willing to exploit.
The only difference was the exterior and interior. Mazda still used its own designers for designing the exterior and interior (though everything else was the same), and Ford wanted to test the public's reaction with a new style of design before the release of the Sierra, using Ghia designers. Ford used the following trim lineup for the Anglia:
Popular
Bonus
L
DL
GL
Ghia
Zetec
"Zetec" was Ford's answer to the Volkswagen Golf GTI. Eventually, Ford-Werke AG found out about Ford UK's project and wanted to jump on board. Thus, Ford built RHD versions of the Anglia and LHD versions (still known as the Escort) for Continental Europe. Ford USA wanted to build a version for North America. Government regulation and separate engineering organizations initially made it impratical, but Ford found a way around it by sending copies of the blueprints to North America, including that of the new Zetec engine. The only difference between the North American Escort and the European Escort was that the engines were slightly modified to comply with California and EPA regulations, and Ford USA's Special Vehicle Operations, with the help of Ford UK, found a way of making a "mini-Mustang" out of the Escort.
First, some of the components of the Fox platform were used in the Escort. This included the front and rear suspension. Then, Ford USA decided to try to tweak the Zetec engine using the knowhow they had gained from the Mustang engines, especially the BOSS 302 engine, and managed to get even-more powerful versions of the Zetec engine then what was initially expected. The interior was also modified to give it a sporty appearance. In North America, this variant became known as the EXP and built in North America. Generally, though, North American Escorts were still primarily conservative in design, though the European interior remained intact. It was primarily built in Oakville, Ontario with a 3-door, 5-door, and wagon model being offered. Thus, they looked like in OTL:
A mid-life refreshment brought the styling in line with it's European counterpart.
As mentioned before, the Anglia and the third-generation European Escorts were built in the UK, and looked similar to the Ford Sierra that would follow two years later. The "American" version was also built in the UK, called the Zetec. Ford UK slightly modified the Zetec to suit British regulations and also introduced turbocharging onto the Zetec engine. The EXP/RS used a 2.0L turbocharged engine, whilst the "American" 1.9L engine was also standard on the Ghia yet optional for the other trim levels. The other engines were those designed jointly by Ford UK and Mazda, in 1.1L, 1.3L, and 1.6L configurations. From the outset, it was offered as a saloon, estate car, estate van, and also in 3-door and 5-door configurations. Eventually, a cabrio version was offered by Karmann through a joint-venture (and built in a brand-new facility in Solihull), and imported in limited numbers to North America.
Picture of the Sierra:
The Mazda version was similar to OTL, so no big changes there.
So, the new Anglia/Familia was released in 1980, with the Ford version built in Dagenham and the Mazda version in Hiroshima. Initially, it didn't sell very well, which sent a signal to Ford that for the Sierra, the design should be toned down a bit. However, the Anglia/Escort Zetec proved to be a huge seller for Ford, with many car magazines favourably comparing it to the GTI. Ford USA also saw some big sales for the Escort EXP. Thus, the Anglia managed to survive to 1985. In 1985, the Anglia and Familia were given a mid-life refreshment, including ABS, 4-wheel disc brakes and the invention of ESP, co-invented with Bosch. ESP was initially avaliable on the Ghia and the Zetec (which was now equipped with permanent 4WD), but by 1987 it was avaliable throughout the entire Anglia lineup. Ford toned down the Anglia design a bit to match it with the Sierra. The refreshed version lasted until 1990. As before, the Anglia/Escort was built in Dagenham.
To be continued, . . .
Whatever they did their biggest tasks would be to achieve the quality assurance of the Japanese products and then to deliver at least the same and preferably better level of after sales service.
As a long time customer of motor manufacturers I can say from experience the British companies were sadly lacking in both of these fields.
As a long time customer of motor manufacturers I can say from experience the British companies were sadly lacking in both of these fields.
The same was true of US manufacturers for a while. But don't worry, I'll update the Anglia/Familia thing I have soon.
Back in the 1970s I used to have a Triumph Herald and a friend of mine had the Vitesse 2Ltr straight six version. Then he went on to get the excellent Triumph 2.5 straight six. I moved on to the Rover P6 with the 3.5 V8.
If cars like this could have been made with good build quality and Japanese type customer service they would be in business.
The Rover P6 V8 was my favourite car to date, but that fuel consumption!
If cars like this could have been made with good build quality and Japanese type customer service they would be in business.
The Rover P6 V8 was my favourite car to date, but that fuel consumption!
Triumph undoubtedly had the most promising all British engines under development.
Rover had plans in their last incarnation for the Rover 75 to have a new design V8.
Jaguar had the brilliant V12, if only they could make it reliable and stop it from spreading oil in it's wake wherever it went.
It would have been great if all of this could have been made good and then packaged and marketed properly.
The problem is the same as I mentioned in the British Jet Fighter thread. We have let our manufacturing base shrink too much. It may even have fallen below the critical point where recovery is uneconomical.
The universities are churning out engineering degrees but the technical colleges are not training the metalworkers and machinists, indeed many of these technical colleges are now new universities and the ones that are left are busy filling media, health and social care and travel and leisure courses. There would be no employers to give artisans apprenticeships anyway. So all the graduate engineers end up working for other countries.