A Map Shitpost Thread

Do people want a WIP thread?

  • Yes

    Votes: 62 75.6%
  • No

    Votes: 20 24.4%

  • Total voters
    82
  • Poll closed .
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This should make things messier in the European Parliament.
 
Why does Germany still exist if they're going ham
I'd imagine that they'd want someone to blame for the war, that or germany's so debt-ridden/stripped of anything useful, that the entente just felt sorry for them and didn't go full Morgenthau
Bulgaria: "maybe if i stay completely still they wont notice me"
i would say that it's in reference to how bulgaria is the only nation to lose both ww1 and 2 and gain land, but honestly i forgot about them after making the small border arrangements
 
The American-Ottoman War is imminent. Who wins in 1803? Will we ally with France (Louisiana Purchase seems ironclad TTL) and Russia? They’d probably love to help out. Austria, too, given that it’s their land that has been transplanted...
The population of that part of the US at that time is 200,000-250,000, divided equally between Pennsylvania and Ohio, with Ohio's population being around 1/3 Native at this time. Pittsburgh and Chillicothe are the largest towns at 1500 people or so each.

By contrast, Transylvania's population at the time would be around 2.5 million, roughly 55% Romanian, 30% Hungarian, 10% German, and 5% Roma. It's larger than the 5 largest US states, population-wise. A 1790 census reports 1.5 million but that figure doesn't include roughly 1/4 of Upper Hungary that was included in that map. Klausenburg/Koloszvar/Cluj-Napoca is probably the largest city, with 15,000.

I'm not certain the Ottomans would try anything in this era considering Transylvania is Habsburg territory and the Ottomans are distracted by Russia breathing down their neck. The Austrians would have virtually no trouble establishing authority in the region, considering they have about as many infantry soldiers as the Americans have people. However, Austria's attention is going to be on the Southern Netherlands, which are currently occupied by Napoleonic France. In OTL the Napoleonic Wars never really touched Transylvania proper, although fighting between Russia and the Ottomans happened in neighboring Moldavia and Wallachia.

I imagine that the most people in Transylvania won't want to leave their homes in North America, and there's no way to evict them, either, since there's so many of them. The Boyars and nobles would be hesitant to return to the Habsburg lands because they've had disagreements about the Habsburgs' respect for their autonomy and traditions. The American settlers in Europe would probably prefer being on the other side of the ocean, given anti-European sentiment was still fairly strong in that era.

The Transylvanian nobles would probably try to convince the Americans to grant them independence, since the feudal system practiced there is incompatible with US legal and societal mores and the people there are uniformly non-English speaking. The Americans also wouldn't be fans of the Hungarian nobles, since those are mainly Catholic. The US also doesn't have the military strength to take the territory, as it's bordered by mountains and full of castles.

As time goes on, I imagine both Romanian peasants and American settlers would emigrate to the US proper. Hungarian nobles would double down on their traditions and the US would have no choice but to acknowledge their sovereignty. Most of the Romanians would flee west into the Northwestern Territory, which the US government would probably encourage. Eventually, we'd have Indiana, Illinois, and Michigan having an overwhelmingly Romanian population, but by the 21st century most of them would probably be more or less assimilated into American culture with most speaking English and attending Orthodox churches. In Transylvania itself, I think that the presence of a large republic surrounding the territory it would cause uprisings against the feudal order, probably transitioning to a republican form of government in the mid-19th century. The US might try to reassert its claim on the territory after that, but if they manage to stay independent past 1900 they're likely to stay that way.

In Europe, I think the American portion would probably be settled heavily by German migrants who were financed by the Austrian crown to populate reconquered Ottoman lands. In time, the population of Americans and Germans would probably end up about even, or perhaps slightly favoring the Germans. I can't imagine the Austrian monarchy being any more tolerant of Native Americans than the US government, so there will probably still be tragedy there. As the region becomes embroiled in the conflicts and ethnic cleansings of the late 19th and early 20th century, it's difficult to know what will happen to the Americans as time goes on, but the region will probably not go to Romania as it did in OTL. It would probably assert itself as an independent republic if Austria collapses and then fall to whatever empire gobbles it up in the early 20th century, whether that's Communist Russia, Imperial Russia, or a Germany of whatever political inclination. In modern times it would probably be similar to the countries surrounding it, with the exception that it would be bilingual in German and English.
 
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The population of that part of the US at that time is 200,000-250,000, divided equally between Pennsylvania and Ohio, with Ohio's population being around 1/3 Native at this time. Pittsburgh and Chillicothe are the largest towns at 1500 people or so each.

By contrast, Transylvania's population at the time would be around 2.5 million, roughly 55% Romanian, 30% Hungarian, 10% German, and 5% Roma. It's larger than the 5 largest US states, population-wise. A 1790 census reports 1.5 million but that figure doesn't include roughly 1/4 of Upper Hungary that was included in that map. Klausenburg/Koloszvar/Cluj-Napoca is probably the largest city, with 15,000.

I'm not certain the Ottomans would try anything in this era considering Transylvania is Habsburg territory and the Ottomans are distracted by Russia breathing down their neck. The Austrians would have virtually no trouble establishing authority in the region, considering they have about as many infantry soldiers as the Americans have people. However, Austria's attention is going to be on the Southern Netherlands, which are currently occupied by Napoleonic France. In OTL the Napoleonic Wars never really touched Transylvania proper, although fighting between Russia and the Ottomans happened in neighboring Moldavia and Wallachia.

I imagine that the most people in Transylvania won't want to leave their homes in North America, and there's no way to evict them, either, since there's so many of them. The Boyars and nobles would be hesitant to return to the Habsburg lands because they've had disagreements about the Habsburgs' respect for their autonomy and traditions. The American settlers in Europe would probably prefer being on the other side of the ocean, given anti-European sentiment was still fairly strong in that era.

The Transylvanian nobles would probably try to convince the Americans to grant them independence, since the feudal system practiced there is incompatible with US legal and societal mores and the people there are uniformly non-English speaking. The Americans also wouldn't be fans of the Hungarian nobles, since those are mainly Catholic. The US also doesn't have the military strength to take the territory, as it's bordered by mountains and full of castles.

As time goes on, I imagine both Romanian peasants and American settlers would emigrate to the US proper. Hungarian nobles would double down on their traditions and the US would have no choice but to acknowledge their sovereignty. Most of the Romanians would flee west into the Northwestern Territory, which the US government would probably encourage. Eventually, we'd have Indiana, Illinois, and Michigan having an overwhelmingly Romanian population, but by the 21st century most of them would probably be more or less assimilated into American culture with most speaking English and attending Orthodox churches. In Transylvania itself, I think that the presence of a large republic surrounding the territory it would cause uprisings against the feudal order, probably transitioning to a republican form of government in the mid-19th century. The US might try to reassert its claim on the territory after that, but if they manage to stay independent past 1900 they're likely to stay that way.

In Europe, I think the American portion would probably be settled heavily by German migrants who were financed by the Austrian crown to populate reconquered Ottoman lands. In time, the population of Americans and Germans would probably end up about even, or perhaps slightly favoring the Germans. I can't imagine the Austrian monarchy being any more tolerant of Native Americans than the US government, so there will probably still be tragedy there. As the region becomes embroiled in the conflicts and ethnic cleansings of the late 19th and early 20th century, it's difficult to know what will happen to the Americans as time goes on, but the region will probably not go to Romania as it did in OTL. It would probably assert itself as an independent republic if Austria collapses and then fall to whatever empire gobbles it up in the early 20th century, whether that's Communist Russia, Imperial Russia, or a Germany of whatever political inclination. In modern times it would probably be similar to the countries surrounding it, with the exception that it would be bilingual in German and English.
You forgot the part where Dracula rises from his grave and invades Massachusetts. Meeting up the the descendants of the Salem Witches!

But in all seriousness though this has to be the most straight and informative answer to a low effort meme map I've ever seen. Absolutely Incredible!

One interesting thing is Ohio was made a state on March 1803 so depending on when this exactly happened Ohio could already be a state and Ohio will likely absorb the parts of Pennsylvania that came with it. The US just might have a State in Eastern Europe for a time at least. Austria could take over no problem but I don't see much of a reason for Austria to take over the region. Really depends on what Napoleon does and whether he'd back up the US should the region be invaded. Austria would probably let Transylvania be independent. Given how far away it is it'd be too difficult to properly control. The same could be said for Ohio and South West Pennsylvania but that's a huge congressional mess to let a state secede from the Union and it would give a few certain states some legitimacy when they try to seceded.

I'm curious to see how Transylvania would factor in the American Civil War. Would they be Neutral? Aid the North? Aid the South?

If they aided the South then I could see the North having no choice but to invade and occupy Transylvania. Holding a referendum vote after the war on US Statehood or Independence. Or maybe just Manifest Destiny the land of Dracula.
 
You forgot the part where Dracula rises from his grave and invades Massachusetts. Meeting up the the descendants of the Salem Witches!

But in all seriousness though this has to be the most straight and informative answer to a low effort meme map I've ever seen. Absolutely Incredible!

One interesting thing is Ohio was made a state on March 1803 so depending on when this exactly happened Ohio could already be a state and Ohio will likely absorb the parts of Pennsylvania that came with it. The US just might have a State in Eastern Europe for a time at least. Austria could take over no problem but I don't see much of a reason for Austria to take over the region. Really depends on what Napoleon does and whether he'd back up the US should the region be invaded. Austria would probably let Transylvania be independent. Given how far away it is it'd be too difficult to properly control. The same could be said for Ohio and South West Pennsylvania but that's a huge congressional mess to let a state secede from the Union and it would give a few certain states some legitimacy when they try to seceded.

I'm curious to see how Transylvania would factor in the American Civil War. Would they be Neutral? Aid the North? Aid the South?

If they aided the South then I could see the North having no choice but to invade and occupy Transylvania. Holding a referendum vote after the war on US Statehood or Independence. Or maybe just Manifest Destiny the land of Dracula.
Ohio won't absorb the rump Pennsylvania; Ohio and Southwestern Pennsylvania have almost the same number of people, and Ohio has definitely fewer white people. Do you mean Indiana? The first white settlers in that part of Indiana won't come until 1806.

Also, let me show you a map:

1629583926155.png


For that portion of Pennsylvania, the population is around 80,000. For Ohio, the total state population would be around 70,000. Hamilton County, though, would have something like ~20,000 of them and the Ohio River area would have something like 5,000 of them, leaving 45,000. Northwest Ohio was designated as Indian Reservation until 1802, so it's likely there aren't many white people there. There is no way to tell how many Native Americans are in Ohio at this time, but I would put my guess at 10-20,000. West Virginia's portion probably has somewhere around 20,000 as well, but that region is all but governed from Pittsburgh. It bears mentioning that a significant portion of the population here at the time were born in Scotland and Ireland; Pittsburgh was a regional center of Scots-Irish culture until it began booming in the 1810s.

Transylvania represents a massive defensive buffer for Austria against the Ottomans in the Carpathian Mountains; without castles and garrisons to defend it, the Emperor may feel exposed. It also bears mentioning that land is money in this era; any food grown in a territory was gold directly in the Emperor's pocket, and the Habsburgs will need to compensate for the sudden loss of tax income in Transylvania. The area might become a vassal state or protectorate of the Empire, much in the same way Transylvania was before 1711.

If the United States is allowed to govern a republic in the heart of Monarchist Europe, it would represent a threat to every monarch there. The French murdered their king just 14 years ago, and the United States is reckoned to be cut from that same cloth. Allowing an independent, republican Pennsylvania-Ohio in Europe is not an option. At best, the United States could secure a promise to respect the traditions and freedoms of the two states in exchange for an ongoing sum of money. It would probably be most politically expedient for Congress to simply declare the lost Americans as emigrants.

Transylvania in North America is going to put the US between a rock and a hard place. They can't govern their European territories or they would anger large portions of Europe. The idea of granting citizenship to more than 2 million people who have no idea how democracy works would be a complete non-starter to Americans at this time, given that the total national population is just under 6 million. What's more, the US has no standing army, and couldn't take it over even if they wanted to.

Diplomatically speaking, the inhabitants of Transylvania are most similar to Native Americans living beyond US government jurisdiction. The Federal government has sole power to conduct diplomacy and negotiate treaties with them, and they are not subject to direct taxation by the United States. There are two differences here: one, the US does not have military superiority and cannot afford to negotiate treaties in bad faith; two, the inhabitants here are white and Christian.

Transylvania can be divided into two regions: Transylvania Proper and Partium. Partium is a full part of the Hungarian Crown and is ruled by Hungarian nobility under the same rules as the rest of Hungary; the nobles rule their domains autonomously but their privileges had been temporarily curtailed from 1781-1790. Most of their rights were restored and the Emperor since then, Francis II, was almost pathologically resistant to change, so the nobles were content for the time being. They were, however, forced to give up their Roma slaves.
Transylvania Proper is ruled by the Union of Three Nations, these being the Nobility, the Szekely, and the Saxons. These function as classes or estates. The Nobility, like those in Partium, are mostly Hungarian-speaking and make up the upper class; the Szekely, also Hungarian-speaking, represented a free military class who traditionally supplied soldiers and officers. The Saxons were German-speaking, and they made up the wealthy patrician class. The peasants, most of them Romanian-speaking, were not represented in this power structure because they were considered Orthodox heretics.
The closest thing to a central authority in Transylvania is the Gubernium, a local noble appointed by the Emperor whose job it was to make sure Imperial edicts were followed; he sat in Hermannstadt (now Sibiu). The closest thing to a governing body in Transylvania was the Diet, which was the convention of all the nobles (some 50-60 of them at this time). The Diet was supposed to convene annually. In reality it convened twice between 1794 and 1835.
 
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