A Looser Union

[Utgard96]

An alliance of two years does not a friendship make. Napoleon has held back a bit after his comeback. He has completely ignored Italy and Iberia, prefering not to overextend himself in those theatres. Napoleon had worked well with Prussia in the past, and the long and noble Prussian tradition of oppressing Slavs comes into play here. France is trying to pull Germany over to its side against an overweening Russia. At least, that's how its portrayed. I was hoping to have a Prussia that wants nothing to do with Germany and is much more Germano-Slavic in culture. Believe me, they aren't that enamoured with Napoleon, and if he or any of his descendants slip up they'll 'ave 'em.

Well, although it's true that Prussia and Russia aren't exactly friends, neither side wants to start a war that will completely disrupt the balance of power, and neither does the rest of Europe. If you want a more Slavic Prussia, you might just have a different Congress of Vienna that restores Poland to the partitioning powers, with Prussia gaining West Galicia in exchange for recognising Austrian dominance over Italy and Austrian presidency over the German Confederation. That would satisfy all parties, except possibly Russia, who might be allowed to keep Tarnopol and Bessarabia in exchange.

I'm surprised I didn't say how the war started. I'll change that. But I thought I did discuss the founding of the FRNE. But I am planning on a more extensive piece about New England and its structure soon.

I'm surprised too. You only wrote that the British sent Wellington to fortify the Caribbean against a possible American attack. As for New England, you only wrote that there were many people who called for outright secession, and that the Westmorlanders wanted to join in an eventual rebellion; however, the actual secession of the FRNE from the Union is not stated anywhere.

 

[Mumby]

Well, although it's true that Prussia and Russia aren't exactly friends, neither side wants to start a war that will completely disrupt the balance of power, and neither does the rest of Europe. If you want a more Slavic Prussia, you might just have a different Congress of Vienna that restores Poland to the partitioning powers, with Prussia gaining West Galicia in exchange for recognising Austrian dominance over Italy and Austrian presidency over the German Confederation. That would satisfy all parties, except possibly Russia, who might be allowed to keep Tarnopol and Bessarabia in exchange.



I'm surprised too. You only wrote that the British sent Wellington to fortify the Caribbean against a possible American attack. As for New England, you only wrote that there were many people who called for outright secession, and that the Westmorlanders wanted to join in an eventual rebellion; however, the actual secession of the FRNE from the Union is not stated anywhere.

Your suggestion certainly sounds more measured and sensible than mine own. It was just that part of me really wanted Napoleon in charge of France. However, France's precedence on the continent is mentioned further on in my notes and parts of what I really want to include in the TL are dependent on a militarily strong France. Any way to wangle that without an implausible Napoleonic comeback?

And I must apologise for that poor oversight. However, I did feel reading over it that I had placed a precedent for New Englander Secession. But if it isn't clear enough, I will go back over it.

EDITED: Dealt with issues in the New World.

 

[Utgard96]

Your suggestion certainly sounds more measured and sensible than mine own. It was just that part of me really wanted Napoleon in charge of France. However, France's precedence on the continent is mentioned further on in my notes and parts of what I really want to include in the TL are dependent on a militarily strong France. Any way to wangle that without an implausible Napoleonic comeback?

And I must apologise for that poor oversight. However, I did feel reading over it that I had placed a precedent for New Englander Secession. But if it isn't clear enough, I will go back over it.

EDITED: Dealt with issues in the New World.

Well, one of the options actually discussed prior to the Hundred Days was to leave the country to a regency government for Napoleon's son. However, after the Hundred Days no one wanted any Bonaparte to have any power, and the idea was largely discredited. If Napoleon does come back, and manages to defeat the Coalition at Waterloo, I imagine this would only have made them more bloodthirsty than ever, and would likely have ended up executing Napoleon when (not if) they finally beat him. IOTL it was only thanks to the fact that the Brits held him in custody that he managed to avoid this fate; if the Prussians had captured him after the battle, things might have ended up differently.

In short, if Napoleon still returns to France and starts the Hundred Days, it actually decreases the chance of the Bonapartes' continued ruling over France significantly.

 

[Mumby]

Well, one of the options actually discussed prior to the Hundred Days was to leave the country to a regency government for Napoleon's son. However, after the Hundred Days no one wanted any Bonaparte to have any power, and the idea was largely discredited. If Napoleon does come back, and manages to defeat the Coalition at Waterloo, I imagine this would only have made them more bloodthirsty than ever, and would likely have ended up executing Napoleon when (not if) they finally beat him. IOTL it was only thanks to the fact that the Brits held him in custody that he managed to avoid this fate; if the Prussians had captured him after the battle, things might have ended up differently.

In short, if Napoleon still returns to France and starts the Hundred Days, it actually decreases the chance of the Bonapartes' continued ruling over France significantly.

So I could have the result I want, if I leave Bonaparte on Elba and have his son become Emperor under a Regency. Sound good?

 

[Utgard96]

So I could have the result I want, if I leave Bonaparte on Elba and have his son become Emperor under a Regency. Sound good?

That could work. Although Talleyrand (who was the principal French advisor to the Allied controllers of Paris) was against such a measure (he wanted the Bourbons back, which was astonishing considering that he had supported Napoleon until very recently), the Allies pretty much had free reign in France, and there were many Frenchmen for whom the Bourbons were inextricably mixed up with tyranny and disregard for human rights, and who would welcome the "Eaglet" as a guarantor for France's continued freedom and greatness.

Also, I am now able to work on a map for TTL, so if you drop a PM we can discuss the details there.

 

[Mumby]

Thanks for all the advice Ares. My knowledge of Continental European history has always been sketchy and it is simply ideal that you were to cast an eye over my ideas. I do unfortunately have a taste for battishness grandiosity and I can't thank you enough for helping to rein me in.

 

[Mumby]

President Jackson's First term (1821-22)

Jefferson powered his way to the Presidency as a Democrat, and on the back of popular support, rather than shady back-room deals. Jefferson had a controversial set of legislation.

• Provincial Responsibility- Being the official adoption of some of the Provincial Governments capacities to strengthen the Union on a regional basis, strengthening Confederacies and states together.
• National Reform- A complete reconstruction of the nation, with a new Constitution and new establishment of powers at all levels of government.
• The Indian Territory- Given the possibility that the Union has reached its maximum size, the Indians east of the Mississippi will be transported to a territory replacing former New Englander Louisiana.
• American Neutrality- Maintaining America's institutions and interests as separate from European affairs, and attempting to avoid war if at all possible.

Jackson's war hero status and his clear proposals to reform the nation were extremely popular, and aside from Republican solid states like Jeffersonia, Virginia, Kentucky and Tennessee, Jackson carried the nation. His policies were also popular amongst some Federalists, and the Democrats absorbed some of the more moderate Federalists.

Jackson carried out his proposals, and the Jackson Constitution was complete by 1822. While Republicans cried out against the new legislation, Jackson immediatly held another Presidential election on its back and further increased his majority. The Supreme Court ruled that the Jackson Constitution was constitutional considering previous articles in both the Declaration of Independence and the Articles of Confederation. The Supreme Court also ruled that President Jackson had been within his rights as President to select the date for the Presidential Election. This therefore became one of the President's rights.

 

[Mumby]

The Jackson Constitution

The new Constitution was based around Jackson's 'Five Point Plan'. This provided for a more efficient military, financial and judicial complex.

The construction of government was to be much as it was before, with the President, the Federal Committee and the State Senate. But other subtleties were also laid out. Each Confederation had its own State Senate, who were lead by a Consul. These Consuls represented Confederal issues on the Federal Committee which governed the whole nation. The Federal Committee was selected by the State Senates, and also had permanent seats for those who had 'performed an exceptional service to the nation'. The President was to be directly elected by the popular vote.

The President's power included the power to select members of the judiciary on the Confederal and Supreme Level, the power to create new territories, and decide national policies.

The Provincial Governments were recognised, but on a limited basis splitting them into a number of committees which were clearly linking the Federal and State governments.

• Military Provincial Committee- Takes state militias and trains them into regiments who form part of the United States Army. The best example of this was the United Carolinian Regiment.
• Judicial Provincial Committee- Selects members of the judiciary on the state level.
• Provincial Combines- Takes state resources and uses them to improve infrastructure and enhance the economy. Some of them also ran a Provincial Bank.

This won a lot of support from the Provincial Parties. However, in reality it abolished them, and absorbed their responsibilities into the Federal Government. Jackson had revolutionised the position and power of the Federal Government in the nation, but had at the same time maintained the political strength of the states and had avoided actually creating many truly national institutions. It bound the Confederations together without inflicting much damage on their own institutions.

 

[Mumby]

Spanish-American Wars of Independence

The fall of New Spain after the Burr Conquest had begun a serious decline in Spanish America. Fortunately for Spain, France was here to help. While it seemed too late to save the colonies of the Southern Cone, they could at least reinforce relatively loyal Peru and retake control of Venezuela/New Granada. The British and Americans on the other hand sent aid to the rebelling nations of Argentina, Chile and Paraguay.

The armies of San Martin succeeded in separating Bolivia from Peru and named it after his erstwhile ally who had been shot while defending Caracas from a French army. The French had gotten involved because the leading statesman of the Empire was Talleyrand and he hoped to try and build alliances with European states and saw the war in Spanish America as ideal to rebuild France's reputation, and get a new ally. Napoleon II married the King of Spain's young daughter Isabella, and was able to secure at least some Bourbon legitimacy for the House of Bonaparte.

By 1827, France had had enough of fighting the Argentine-Chilean rebels and forced the Spanish to recognise their independence. The rebels of the south established the United Provinces of Dorado, with Chile, Argentina and Paraguay as states and Patagonia and Bolivia as territories.

For Spain, they had retained their remaining colonies at a cost. French garrisons sat in Lima, Quito, Caracas and practically every where else. France controlled Spain's access to the continent's resources. They had become reliant on their ally, and became a puppet of France, their colonies part of an informal French Empire.

 

[Mumby]

The Portuguese Civil War

For Portugal, the fall of Spain into the French sphere of influence was extremely worrying. The entry of France into the Spanish-American Wars had started in 1821. King John of Portugal was at that time residing in Brasil, and fearing a Spanish invasion of Portugal at the behest of France, refused Portuguese revolutionary demands for him to return and sign a new constitution.

This caused considerable rage amongst the people of Portugal, who declared independence as the Republic of Portugal. They then sent an army to rest Brasil out of the hands of the monarchy, and return it to Portuguese colonial domination.

John and his son Peter worked to whip the Brasilians into a fury, claiming that the Portuguese republicans would reduce them to mere provinces, not the Kingdom within an empire that they were now. The southerners bellowed loudly against this injustice, and the two sides clashed.

Ultimately, neither side would truly win. Portugal seized the north of Brasil, but didn't defeat John and Peter's Kingdom of Brasil. And a third party had emerged in 1828. The northern urban population were equally swayed by Portuguese republican rhetoric and Brasilian warnings of provincial irrelevance. So they declared the Bahian Republic and took the Northeast Region of Brasil as there own independent Brasilian republic.

Bahia soon fell under Doradan and American influence, and the British certainly had an interest in new markets in the north of the South American continent.

Red shows the Bahian Republic, Dark Green shows Portuguese Brazil, Light Green shows the Kingdom of Brasil.

 

[Utgard96]

United Provinces of Dorado? Rio de la Plata sounds more likely, since that is what it was called under Spanish rule. Also, Argentina would be completely dominant in such a union; I suggest splitting it into several states.

Bahia, I'd think, should be called the Confederation of the Equator (or of Equador). Also, what reason is there for the Portuguese to declare a republic? John VI wanted to return to Portugal, and after a couple of years he did, granting Brazil its independence (as he had promised them). Why doesn't he return ITTL, and why don't the rebels choose a new king (republicanism was a bit ... tainted to the Europeans after ten years of revolutionary terror)?

 

[Mumby]

United Provinces of Dorado? Rio de la Plata sounds more likely, since that is what it was called under Spanish rule. Also, Argentina would be completely dominant in such a union; I suggest splitting it into several states.

Bahia, I'd think, should be called the Confederation of the Equator (or of Equador). Also, what reason is there for the Portuguese to declare a republic? John VI wanted to return to Portugal, and after a couple of years he did, granting Brazil its independence (as he had promised them). Why doesn't he return ITTL, and why don't the rebels choose a new king (republicanism was a bit ... tainted to the Europeans after ten years of revolutionary terror)?

Who would the Portuguese choose a new king from? The royal family is based in Brasil. I believe there was some republican sentiment in Portugal at this time, the people were calling for democratic reforms, but King John wasn't there to put his seal on it. He wanted to, but he had to leave Brazil to do it. I believe I outlined why he didn't return to Portugal in the write-up, namely fears of Franco-Spanish encroachment at a time of political instability.

I agree that Argentina should be split into more states but I wasn't sure what they should be called. And I didn't think Rio de La Plata would fit since Chile and Paraguay weren't part of it. Dorado meaning Gold raises it up from La Plata meaning Silver. And my brother came up with it, so I thought why not, I'll run with that.

And I'm good with Bahia being Equador. Lets do it. And the map is only extremely rough. Feel free to take it in whatever direction you like.

 

[Utgard96]

I agree that Argentina should be split into more states but I wasn't sure what they should be called. And I didn't think Rio de La Plata would fit since Chile and Paraguay weren't part of it. Dorado meaning Gold raises it up from La Plata meaning Silver. And my brother came up with it, so I thought why not, I'll run with that.

Well, Paraguay was certainly part of Rio de la Plata, and although Chile wasn't part of it, it was rather tied to it for the simple reason that they had a very hard time defending themselves from the royalists on their own.

 

[Mumby]

Well, Paraguay was certainly part of Rio de la Plata, and although Chile wasn't part of it, it was rather tied to it for the simple reason that they had a very hard time defending themselves from the royalists on their own.

But would not the Doradan government want to distance themselves from Spanish colonial government? El Dorado is after all a South American myth, and it could be that they name themselves thus because the gold, the riches come not in mines but in the glory of the people themselves.

 

[Utgard96]

But would not the Doradan government want to distance themselves from Spanish colonial government? El Dorado is after all a South American myth, and it could be that they name themselves thus because the gold, the riches come not in mines but in the glory of the people themselves.

IOTL they didn't seem to have that problem.

 

[Mumby]

IOTL they didn't seem to have that problem.

They at least used a different translation of the name. And they have more than old La Platans living under their rule. I was thinking about calling them Columbia or something similar, but I wanted something unique to my TL. And Dorado seemed good.

 

[Utgard96]

They at least used a different translation of the name. And they have more than old La Platans living under their rule. I was thinking about calling them Columbia or something similar, but I wanted something unique to my TL. And Dorado seemed good.

Oh well, then. I guess Dorado will do.

 

[Mumby]

Little taster for the glory to come.

 

[PulkitNahata]

Little taster for the glory to come.

I am lovin it

 

[Mumby]

I am lovin it

Good to hear!