I wasnt refering to the guptas tho, my point was that the shaivists were non-abrahamic yet possessed the trait you spoke of(believing in one supreme god above others, though not necessarily that other deities were false) and persecuted buddhists like Souvikkundu mentioned, with the hunnic invasions leading to the gupta collapse. And that could be in theory prevented here if there's a persian sartrap in the way of their invasions in say Bactria as its unlikely the christian persians(who arent the OTL christian europeans) would be any more aggressive to the indians than the zoroastrianists(who also believed in a "One True God") were since their focus would be serving as a base for persian power in the region(while Persia proper fights against Rome & its other enemies) rather than be constantly launching holy war against buddhists like Mihirkula did but if we follow OTL by keeping the abrahamics out of the question because we dislike them(which is odd since this is a TL about a Abrahamic Persia) then India most likely will undergo the same level of devastation it did IOTL at the hand of these invaders(who, again, werent abrahamic).
A Light Shines East: The World of a Christian Persia
- Thread starter Merovingian
- Start date
The Sack of Rome
From “The Death of Rome: A Slow Tragedy” by Marius de Cartago
The infamous sack of Rome by the Gallic Emperor Ambrosius, known today in Gallia as Embrys the Great and in Romania as Ambrosio the Terrible, simply accelerating the process of Roman decline which began when the Gallic and Palmyrene Empires went their own ways. Ambrosius’ reasons for attacking Rome are unknown, but it is generally believed that he sought the wealth of the city. Though the Roman Empire had declined, the city of Rome remained a major center of wealth within the declining empire.
Ambrosius’ Gallic forces entered the city largely unopposed. The Roman legion was a shadow of its former self, it had been rendered little more than a joke in which Ambroius’ sack was the punchline. The Gallic legions looted everything that wasn’t chained down, and all the treasures of Rome’s golden age were taken to Lutetia, where many remain today. Centuries after Caesar crossed the Rubicon, the Gauls had now taken Rome. Then-ruling Emperor Marcus Severanus was deposed, and a Gallian puppet by the name of Aurelianus was installed[1].
With Ambroius’ sack of Rome, the Gallic Empire had solidified itself as a major power, while the Roman Empire had entered what were to be its final days. The city once proclaimed to be eternal would, like the Empire for which it served as capital, fall into decline. The Gallic sack would leave Rome open for the later Gothic sack which would deal the final blow to the empire of Caesar and Augustus. Yet, even as the old Roman Empire would fall, it’s legacy would survive.
[1]Who would, in turn, be removed by the Praetorian Guard not too many years later
The infamous sack of Rome by the Gallic Emperor Ambrosius, known today in Gallia as Embrys the Great and in Romania as Ambrosio the Terrible, simply accelerating the process of Roman decline which began when the Gallic and Palmyrene Empires went their own ways. Ambrosius’ reasons for attacking Rome are unknown, but it is generally believed that he sought the wealth of the city. Though the Roman Empire had declined, the city of Rome remained a major center of wealth within the declining empire.
Ambrosius’ Gallic forces entered the city largely unopposed. The Roman legion was a shadow of its former self, it had been rendered little more than a joke in which Ambroius’ sack was the punchline. The Gallic legions looted everything that wasn’t chained down, and all the treasures of Rome’s golden age were taken to Lutetia, where many remain today. Centuries after Caesar crossed the Rubicon, the Gauls had now taken Rome. Then-ruling Emperor Marcus Severanus was deposed, and a Gallian puppet by the name of Aurelianus was installed[1].
With Ambroius’ sack of Rome, the Gallic Empire had solidified itself as a major power, while the Roman Empire had entered what were to be its final days. The city once proclaimed to be eternal would, like the Empire for which it served as capital, fall into decline. The Gallic sack would leave Rome open for the later Gothic sack which would deal the final blow to the empire of Caesar and Augustus. Yet, even as the old Roman Empire would fall, it’s legacy would survive.
[1]Who would, in turn, be removed by the Praetorian Guard not too many years later
Will the former Roman Empire still follow their old Pagan religion, or will they adopt a different religion ITTL, just not Christianity?
To be honest I haven’t quite figured out what religion the former Roman Empire will follow, although it probably won’t be just one religion that predominates, but rather something akin to the coexistence of Taoism, Confucianism, and Buddhism in China.
Some probably call him Brennus reborn, too.
A mix of the old Imperial Cult and other stuff I guess? How is Mithraism and/or Sol Invictus doing?
Essentially this.
Mithras is a prominent deity in both the Palmyrene and Gallic Empires(although I haven’t touched on the later much so far), with Sol Invictus being incorporated variously as a solar aspect of Mithras or a separate deity altogether.
Why would he be called Christ if Christianity didn't spread into Greece ITTL?
Because greek was the Ligua Franca of the Near and Middle East for Centuries at this point. Heck it was even used with some regularity even in the Persian Empire for some time.
Eeyup. While the Diadochi are a distant memory by this point, the Hellenistic world has yet to breathe its last; not to mention that IOTL Arabic being the lingua franca of Western and Central Asia isn't gonna be a thing due to a different geopolitical situation.
From everything OP wrote at the start, Early Christian history up to 50 years after the crucifixion is largely the same.
As others have stated, Greek was still a common language in the Near East at the time, and while it’s largely been supplanted by Aramaic as a liturgical language ITTL, some Greek words with particular theological importance, such as “Christ”, are still used.
Hellenism
From “Infopedia: The Online Encyclopedia”
Hellenism
Hellenism is a polytheistic and henotheistic religion based on the writings and teachings of various philosophers throughout history. Hellenism has been called one of the world’s oldest religions, dating back to the Minoan and Mycenaean periods in Greece during the Bronze Age[citation needed]. The first major Hellene writings were the Iliad and the Odyssey, both attributed to the semi-legendary poet Homer. The Greek city of Athens, regarded as holy by Hellenes, would see a flourishing of philosophy later in Ancient Greece’s history. It was during this time that the philosophy of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle would develop, becoming a fundamental aspect of Hellene theology.
The rise of the Roman Empire would bring further developments to the Hellene religion, perhaps most importantly by creating the concept of an emperor, or a semi-divine absolute monarch who combines religious and secular leadership[citation needed]. Hellenism would undergo a major reform in reaction to the fall of the Roman Empire and the rise of Christianity. It was around this time that Hellenism would begin to take on its modern form[citation needed].
Hellenes believe that all reality originates with a divine principle known as the Monad, personified as the deity Aion, that simultaneously is the universe and is above it. Emanating from Aion is Mithras, the demiurge, who created the world and represents the divine masculine principle. Also emanating from Aion is Mithras’ wife, Isis, who represents the divine feminine principle. According to some forms of Hellenism, the two are simply the masculine and feminine aspects of the same divinity, although they are almost always worshipped as separate and are likewise almost always portrayed as being married and having separate personalities[citation needed].
Beneath Aion, Mithras, and Isis, are the Dodekatheon, a group of twelve deities forming the “official” Hellene pantheon[1]. The Dodekatheon feature in numerous traditional myths. It is common for Hellenes to take one of the twelve as a “personal god”, who they hold a special devotion to and worship above all others. Bellow the Dodekatheon are various regional deities and lesser gods. Also worthy of mention are deified humans, including Homer, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Augustus, and the mythical Herakles, Romulus, Aeneas, Achilles, and Oddyseus[citation needed]. Most Hellene families have an altar to deified ancestors.
Hellenism features a complex afterlife that is central to its theology. The Hellene god of the afterlife is called Pluto, who is the ruler of an underworld called Hades. According to Hellene theology, all dead souls go to Hades, and stay for as many years as sins they had committed in life. Once the soul has stayed in Hades for long enough, it is reincarnated. The ultimate goal of Hellenism is to escape from the cycle of death, Hades, and rebirth, in some ways similar to the Dharmic religions[citation needed]. Unlike Hinduism, Hellenism does not believe in reincarnation from human to animal(or vice versa), only from human to human.
Hellenes believe that they can escape from this cycle by following the teachings of Hellene philosophy, worshiping the gods, and living a moral life. Once a soul had broken from this cycle, it goes not to Hades upon death, but to the paradisiacal realm of Elysium, where it remains eternally. In addition to Elysium, Hellenes also believe that humans can achieve apotheosis, or become gods. Apotheosis is traditionally reserved for those who had accomplished great feats in life. The vast majority of Hellenes do not seek apotheosis[citation needed].
“Hellene” and “Hellenism” are exonyms. The word “Hellene” was originally used by the Ancient Greeks as an ethnic rather than religious identifier, however, with the rise of Christianity, “Hellene” became increasingly used to signify a religious identity. The cities of Athens and Rome are regarded as sacred by Hellenes, as is Mount Olympus in Greece. The Ancient Greek and Latin languages are both used as liturgical languages by Hellenes, with Latin traditionally having been used as a lingua franca in the Hellene world. The majority of Hellenes live in Western and Southern Europe, with minorities in Egypt, North Africa, the Levant, and Angland.
[1]”Official” in that these are the twelve that everyone agrees on, but there are hundreds of thousands of local village and family gods
Hellenism
Hellenism is a polytheistic and henotheistic religion based on the writings and teachings of various philosophers throughout history. Hellenism has been called one of the world’s oldest religions, dating back to the Minoan and Mycenaean periods in Greece during the Bronze Age[citation needed]. The first major Hellene writings were the Iliad and the Odyssey, both attributed to the semi-legendary poet Homer. The Greek city of Athens, regarded as holy by Hellenes, would see a flourishing of philosophy later in Ancient Greece’s history. It was during this time that the philosophy of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle would develop, becoming a fundamental aspect of Hellene theology.
The rise of the Roman Empire would bring further developments to the Hellene religion, perhaps most importantly by creating the concept of an emperor, or a semi-divine absolute monarch who combines religious and secular leadership[citation needed]. Hellenism would undergo a major reform in reaction to the fall of the Roman Empire and the rise of Christianity. It was around this time that Hellenism would begin to take on its modern form[citation needed].
Hellenes believe that all reality originates with a divine principle known as the Monad, personified as the deity Aion, that simultaneously is the universe and is above it. Emanating from Aion is Mithras, the demiurge, who created the world and represents the divine masculine principle. Also emanating from Aion is Mithras’ wife, Isis, who represents the divine feminine principle. According to some forms of Hellenism, the two are simply the masculine and feminine aspects of the same divinity, although they are almost always worshipped as separate and are likewise almost always portrayed as being married and having separate personalities[citation needed].
Beneath Aion, Mithras, and Isis, are the Dodekatheon, a group of twelve deities forming the “official” Hellene pantheon[1]. The Dodekatheon feature in numerous traditional myths. It is common for Hellenes to take one of the twelve as a “personal god”, who they hold a special devotion to and worship above all others. Bellow the Dodekatheon are various regional deities and lesser gods. Also worthy of mention are deified humans, including Homer, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Augustus, and the mythical Herakles, Romulus, Aeneas, Achilles, and Oddyseus[citation needed]. Most Hellene families have an altar to deified ancestors.
Hellenism features a complex afterlife that is central to its theology. The Hellene god of the afterlife is called Pluto, who is the ruler of an underworld called Hades. According to Hellene theology, all dead souls go to Hades, and stay for as many years as sins they had committed in life. Once the soul has stayed in Hades for long enough, it is reincarnated. The ultimate goal of Hellenism is to escape from the cycle of death, Hades, and rebirth, in some ways similar to the Dharmic religions[citation needed]. Unlike Hinduism, Hellenism does not believe in reincarnation from human to animal(or vice versa), only from human to human.
Hellenes believe that they can escape from this cycle by following the teachings of Hellene philosophy, worshiping the gods, and living a moral life. Once a soul had broken from this cycle, it goes not to Hades upon death, but to the paradisiacal realm of Elysium, where it remains eternally. In addition to Elysium, Hellenes also believe that humans can achieve apotheosis, or become gods. Apotheosis is traditionally reserved for those who had accomplished great feats in life. The vast majority of Hellenes do not seek apotheosis[citation needed].
“Hellene” and “Hellenism” are exonyms. The word “Hellene” was originally used by the Ancient Greeks as an ethnic rather than religious identifier, however, with the rise of Christianity, “Hellene” became increasingly used to signify a religious identity. The cities of Athens and Rome are regarded as sacred by Hellenes, as is Mount Olympus in Greece. The Ancient Greek and Latin languages are both used as liturgical languages by Hellenes, with Latin traditionally having been used as a lingua franca in the Hellene world. The majority of Hellenes live in Western and Southern Europe, with minorities in Egypt, North Africa, the Levant, and Angland.
[1]”Official” in that these are the twelve that everyone agrees on, but there are hundreds of thousands of local village and family gods
It's religious spread makes sense though it does have me thinking. I wonder if Western Europe ITTL won't include what we'd consider OTL Germany since I doubt it'll have much in the way of Hellenes. I do have the feeling Hellenism is going to impact ITTL Norse and Germanic paganism (and Slavic paganism) though due to the relative cultural and material strength it has compared to the relatively less developed materially Central, Northern andEastern Europe.
I do find the ways it's afterlife is a bit of a fusion of the Abrahamic faiths (goal is to end up in a perfect paradise where you can stay in forever) and Dharmic faiths (reincarnation and trying to break out of it) pretty interesting as well. It does make sense though as from what I understand reincarnation was already a thing in several ancient Greek philosophers and I think Elysium and Ancient Greek conceptions of the afterlife in both a place for punishment (Tartarus) and a place that was a reward (Elysium) were things that were an influence of Hellenism on the Abrahamic faiths in regards to the afterlife in general.
I do find the ways it's afterlife is a bit of a fusion of the Abrahamic faiths (goal is to end up in a perfect paradise where you can stay in forever) and Dharmic faiths (reincarnation and trying to break out of it) pretty interesting as well. It does make sense though as from what I understand reincarnation was already a thing in several ancient Greek philosophers and I think Elysium and Ancient Greek conceptions of the afterlife in both a place for punishment (Tartarus) and a place that was a reward (Elysium) were things that were an influence of Hellenism on the Abrahamic faiths in regards to the afterlife in general.
Hellenism ITTL is similar to OTL Hinduism, Judaism, and Zoroastrianism in that it’s largely an ethnic religion. You can convert to it, but there’s no tradition of missionaries or proselytization. What will most likely happen is that Germanic paganism will survive as a separate religion in Northern and Central Europe, although it will still be influenced by Hellenism. An interesting side-effect is that “western civilization” as we know it simply will not exist. Not only does Christianity never rise to prominence in Europe ITTL, but the concept of a united European civilization won’t exist ITTL. Instead, there will be a Hellenic civilization in Western and Southern Europe, a Germanic civilization in Central and Northern Europe, a Slavic civilization in Eastern Europe, etc., that all view each other as completely separate and distinct.
And it's worth noting that since Christianity went east TTL it's Asia that's likelier to have universalist ideals.
Is it possible that Gnostic sects in Europe syncretized Hellenistic beliefs? And what are some forms of syncretism in OTL Christianity and Hellenism?
Glimpses of the Future
I’m still working on the centuries-long conflict between Palmyra and Persia, the rise of the Gallic Empire, and some other stuff yet to be revealed. Until then, here’s three important events in TTL’s future.
Ctesiphon, 620 AD
Abu Yusuf stood content with himself. He had been born a simple desert shepherd, and had now become the single most powerful man in all of Christendom. He had been in the right place at the right time, and had unified the divided Arab tribes under a single banner. He struck forth at the heathen Palmyrene Empire, and liberated Jerusalem from the pagan yoke. He likewise captured all of Egypt and Syria, including the capital city of Palmyra, and forced the heirs of Odaenathus all the way to Anatolia. He then turned his eyes to the heretical empire of the Sassanids. His armies overwhelmed the dying carcass of Persia, with the hope that he would bring the true Restored Nazarene Church to the land of Cyrus and Shapur, extinguishing the Apostolic heresy.
Now he stood in the old Sassanid capital of Ctesiphon[1], in the same palace that the Sassanian Shahs had stood before him. He looked down upon a coin that bore his visage, alongside the words in Arabic and in Persian[2] “ABU YUSUF, KING OF KINGS” and on the other side bore a cross alongside the words in Aramaic “JESUS CHRIST, LORD AND SAVIOR.” To the Arabs, he would be remembered as a hero of their culture who brought them to their people’s golden age. To the Egyptians and Syrians, he would be remembered as the man who liberated them from the Hellenes yoke. To the Persians, he would be known as a second Alexander, a foreign conqueror who attempted to eradicate their Apostolic identity. Regardless of how he would be remembered, he would have the single greatest influence on the history of the Middle East to come since the days of Shapur and Vaballathus.
Southern Scandinavia, 713 AD
Ragnar Haraldson returned to his village after having been previously outlawed[3] and exiled. Under normal circumstances, he would not have been allowed to return, but he was not returning under ordinary circumstances. Ragnar had at first been a drunk who spent his days picking fights with fellow drunks until he picked a fight with someone respectable, which was what got him outlawed in the first place. He had travelled for to the north, where he experienced an Óðr[4]. He had been visited by the wandering Allfather, Odin, who came bearing a message. Norse society before Ragnar’s Óðr had been divided into three classes; aristocratic jarls, free karls, and enslaved thralls. Ragnar preached that the jarls had grown corrupt and disregarded religion in favor of earthly wealth, angering the Æsir.
As a result, the Æsir had sent him, the Óðri, to establish a new theocratic order among the Norse. Ragnar also taught that, once the new theocratic order had been established, the gates of Valhalla would be opened not just to those who died in battle, but to all those who lived righteous lives. This particular teaching endeared many to Ragnar’s cause, and he gathered many converts as he traveled throughout Scandinavia. Now, he and his faithful were returning to his old village. Ragnar’s forces overran the city’s defenses, and it was renamed Óðrigard, the city of the Óðri. Ragnar would continue to rule Óðrigard until his death, when his last dying commandment being that the Sagas of the Æsir, as well as his own life, be written down. The foundations had been laid for the Óðri’s teachings to expand to Scandinavia and beyond.
Cape of Good Hope, 1385
Shahin Marashi and his crew had been sailing for days now. How many days he had lost track of, but it had been long enough that they had begun to get restless. They set out from Persia on the eve of Easter, sailing forth to the isle of Zangistan[5], which had until then been the furthest south that swore fealty to the Shahanshah. After a brief stay on Zangistan, Marashi and his crew continued to sail southwards until they found land. Marashi and his crew named this new land “Farokhistan”, after their homeland’s ruler, Shah Farokh II. They established an outpost, which they called Paygah-e Mariam or Mary’s Outpost after the Virgin Mary, before returning to Persia.
Marashi and his crew would return to Paygah-e Mariam several times again throughout his life, and it would begin to grow into a city in its own right, eventually being renamed from “Paygah-e Mariam” to “Shahrestan-e Mariam” and eventually “Mariamshahr” to signify its change from an outpost to a city. As Mariamshahr grew, Persian settlers would begin to expand further into Farokhistan. Shahin Marashi would die a wealthy man, and would become well-known and respected in Persia for his discovery of Farokhistan, and history would remember him as the man who brought forth the beginning of a new era.
[1]”Taysifūn” to Abu Yusuf
[2]Both Arabic and Persian are written in Aramaic script ITTL
[3]Outlawry was a Norse custom in which those who had broken the law could be banished
[4]An Old Norse word that has no real equivalent in English, but roughly translates as an epiphany or religious experience.
[5]OTL Zanzibar
Ctesiphon, 620 AD
Abu Yusuf stood content with himself. He had been born a simple desert shepherd, and had now become the single most powerful man in all of Christendom. He had been in the right place at the right time, and had unified the divided Arab tribes under a single banner. He struck forth at the heathen Palmyrene Empire, and liberated Jerusalem from the pagan yoke. He likewise captured all of Egypt and Syria, including the capital city of Palmyra, and forced the heirs of Odaenathus all the way to Anatolia. He then turned his eyes to the heretical empire of the Sassanids. His armies overwhelmed the dying carcass of Persia, with the hope that he would bring the true Restored Nazarene Church to the land of Cyrus and Shapur, extinguishing the Apostolic heresy.
Now he stood in the old Sassanid capital of Ctesiphon[1], in the same palace that the Sassanian Shahs had stood before him. He looked down upon a coin that bore his visage, alongside the words in Arabic and in Persian[2] “ABU YUSUF, KING OF KINGS” and on the other side bore a cross alongside the words in Aramaic “JESUS CHRIST, LORD AND SAVIOR.” To the Arabs, he would be remembered as a hero of their culture who brought them to their people’s golden age. To the Egyptians and Syrians, he would be remembered as the man who liberated them from the Hellenes yoke. To the Persians, he would be known as a second Alexander, a foreign conqueror who attempted to eradicate their Apostolic identity. Regardless of how he would be remembered, he would have the single greatest influence on the history of the Middle East to come since the days of Shapur and Vaballathus.
Southern Scandinavia, 713 AD
Ragnar Haraldson returned to his village after having been previously outlawed[3] and exiled. Under normal circumstances, he would not have been allowed to return, but he was not returning under ordinary circumstances. Ragnar had at first been a drunk who spent his days picking fights with fellow drunks until he picked a fight with someone respectable, which was what got him outlawed in the first place. He had travelled for to the north, where he experienced an Óðr[4]. He had been visited by the wandering Allfather, Odin, who came bearing a message. Norse society before Ragnar’s Óðr had been divided into three classes; aristocratic jarls, free karls, and enslaved thralls. Ragnar preached that the jarls had grown corrupt and disregarded religion in favor of earthly wealth, angering the Æsir.
As a result, the Æsir had sent him, the Óðri, to establish a new theocratic order among the Norse. Ragnar also taught that, once the new theocratic order had been established, the gates of Valhalla would be opened not just to those who died in battle, but to all those who lived righteous lives. This particular teaching endeared many to Ragnar’s cause, and he gathered many converts as he traveled throughout Scandinavia. Now, he and his faithful were returning to his old village. Ragnar’s forces overran the city’s defenses, and it was renamed Óðrigard, the city of the Óðri. Ragnar would continue to rule Óðrigard until his death, when his last dying commandment being that the Sagas of the Æsir, as well as his own life, be written down. The foundations had been laid for the Óðri’s teachings to expand to Scandinavia and beyond.
Cape of Good Hope, 1385
Shahin Marashi and his crew had been sailing for days now. How many days he had lost track of, but it had been long enough that they had begun to get restless. They set out from Persia on the eve of Easter, sailing forth to the isle of Zangistan[5], which had until then been the furthest south that swore fealty to the Shahanshah. After a brief stay on Zangistan, Marashi and his crew continued to sail southwards until they found land. Marashi and his crew named this new land “Farokhistan”, after their homeland’s ruler, Shah Farokh II. They established an outpost, which they called Paygah-e Mariam or Mary’s Outpost after the Virgin Mary, before returning to Persia.
Marashi and his crew would return to Paygah-e Mariam several times again throughout his life, and it would begin to grow into a city in its own right, eventually being renamed from “Paygah-e Mariam” to “Shahrestan-e Mariam” and eventually “Mariamshahr” to signify its change from an outpost to a city. As Mariamshahr grew, Persian settlers would begin to expand further into Farokhistan. Shahin Marashi would die a wealthy man, and would become well-known and respected in Persia for his discovery of Farokhistan, and history would remember him as the man who brought forth the beginning of a new era.
[1]”Taysifūn” to Abu Yusuf
[2]Both Arabic and Persian are written in Aramaic script ITTL
[3]Outlawry was a Norse custom in which those who had broken the law could be banished
[4]An Old Norse word that has no real equivalent in English, but roughly translates as an epiphany or religious experience.
[5]OTL Zanzibar
Hey, sorry I havent been commenting, but I like how this is going.
The Jesus/God as a Faravahar I like too.
I think Christian states will heavily adopt it in parts of their flags (as crosses are OTL) and it will be interesting to see Christianity spread to India.
Persian Empires, whether “foreign” or Persian revivalists TTL will have an easer time maintaining influence as Christianity is a very credible religion to strengthen Empire.
I feel like Yazatas and Amesha Spentas will be portrayed as angels.
The Jesus/God as a Faravahar I like too.
I think Christian states will heavily adopt it in parts of their flags (as crosses are OTL) and it will be interesting to see Christianity spread to India.
Persian Empires, whether “foreign” or Persian revivalists TTL will have an easer time maintaining influence as Christianity is a very credible religion to strengthen Empire.
I feel like Yazatas and Amesha Spentas will be portrayed as angels.
Also, regarding the alt Arab conquest of Persia:
A regional "golden age" can still happen
Arab rule will last for some time BUT will probably fracture this time without the doctrine of obedience to the Wadi al-Amr and Caliphate.
In Iran and Central Asia, I think we will see
- a number of apostilic revivalists revolts by Persian notables
- they get crushed, but due to the decadence spreading across the Arab elite, they increasingly rely on Turkic mercenaries to secure Persia.
- eventually, charismatic turkic mercs will go their own way, align with the Persian apostilic church, form their own Iranian dynasty, and portray themselves as culturual revivers of Persian identity + apostilic church.
- and like OTL i think there will be a familar ish pattern of the dynasties changing, with perhaps an alt Seljuk like Chrisitan Turko-Persian state
- the Turks in the steppes slowly get christianized, but this takes time
- the Turks will also have elements go to Anatolia as OTL, challenging hellenic elements there. the Anatolian Turks, not unlike OTL, will be Persianized (to an extent), perhaps even moreso than OTL due to Christianity being heavily influenced by Persia.
In MENA:
Arabization won't really happen like OTL imo without the strong Arab centrism of Islam. If anything, gradually the Arab elite will adopt local ways.
However, as in OTL, I do think Turks will supplant and replace arab elite. Especially because same mercenary problem will happen.
A strong independent Egyptian identity retained?
Both apostolic churches and their revivals may become intellectual centers, as Islamic universities did in OTL in MENA, and as Christianity institutions of all sects did in Europe
A regional "golden age" can still happen
Arab rule will last for some time BUT will probably fracture this time without the doctrine of obedience to the Wadi al-Amr and Caliphate.
In Iran and Central Asia, I think we will see
- a number of apostilic revivalists revolts by Persian notables
- they get crushed, but due to the decadence spreading across the Arab elite, they increasingly rely on Turkic mercenaries to secure Persia.
- eventually, charismatic turkic mercs will go their own way, align with the Persian apostilic church, form their own Iranian dynasty, and portray themselves as culturual revivers of Persian identity + apostilic church.
- and like OTL i think there will be a familar ish pattern of the dynasties changing, with perhaps an alt Seljuk like Chrisitan Turko-Persian state
- the Turks in the steppes slowly get christianized, but this takes time
- the Turks will also have elements go to Anatolia as OTL, challenging hellenic elements there. the Anatolian Turks, not unlike OTL, will be Persianized (to an extent), perhaps even moreso than OTL due to Christianity being heavily influenced by Persia.
In MENA:
Arabization won't really happen like OTL imo without the strong Arab centrism of Islam. If anything, gradually the Arab elite will adopt local ways.
However, as in OTL, I do think Turks will supplant and replace arab elite. Especially because same mercenary problem will happen.
A strong independent Egyptian identity retained?
Both apostolic churches and their revivals may become intellectual centers, as Islamic universities did in OTL in MENA, and as Christianity institutions of all sects did in Europe