A Less Terrible French Empire?

It always seemed to me like the French Empire pretty much sucked. Most of their African possessions were desert and they owned only a small portion of Asia. Yes they were still a large and immensely powerful force, but compare them to Britain and her empire and they seem like an embarrassment. It also appears they were so close to succeeding in many areas such as Canada, Australia, and India. This is what prompted me to put up this thread. How can we make the French Empire as powerful as it could be realistically?

In the end I would like it if the French could control a large piece of every continent (excluding Antarctica) by 1900. They must also have a population and total area larger than the British in OTL. In addition the British Empire should take their place as 2nd most powerful empire.
 
The problem is geopolitics.

France is too committed to the continent.

And with finite resources, that does mean its various colonial ventures are going to fall short.

So if you want a better than OTL result, you need a reason why France looks outside Europe for conquest and becomes much, much more of a maritime power - and that's going to be hard (since even with French interest, France's position relative to the Baltic -aka the timber source of choice, for good reason - sucks).

This is ignoring any specific scenarios, since simply doing better in any given campaign doesn't translate into what you want.
 

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In the end I would like it if the French could control a large piece of every continent (excluding Antarctica) by 1900. They must also have a population and total area larger than the British in OTL. In addition the British Empire should take their place as 2nd most powerful empire.
Either every single non European country is colonized, the Spanish Empire ends in French hands, or this is ASB.
 
Not sure I'd say ASB - just highly improbable.

You could have France be the equivalent of OTL Britain and vice-versa, theoretically, but coming up with the policies to make this happen...
 
The French start settling the East Coast of North America in the 1500s, relying on it to supply them with adequate lumber resources to construct a more reliable naval force. After outcompeting the Dutch in the fur trade in North America, kicking them out of the Saint Lawrence River valley in the French and Indian Wars, while the French also manage to conquer their settlements in Cape Town and the Guyanas. From here, the French are able to better supply their trading posts and allies in India, leading to a heavier French presence in Asia. Due to the increased number of ships traveling to the Indies, the French stumble upon Australie, exploring it and soon rediscovering Nouvelle-Zélande. Soon, French explorers and farmers begin to settle in these new territories, converting the natives to the Catholic faith.

I have no idea if that is all possible, but it sounded nice in my head.
 
The main problem here is to have strong imperialistic feelings in France. An awful lot of colonial expeditions didn't interested much people, and even some clashing events as Fachoda didn't get that much echo in the population.

So, you would probably have to make the french population less indifferent when it comes to colonial question, and to crush since the beggining all the anti-colonialist groups or ideologies in France.

For Canada and India, well...Nobody was really interested here, mainly because of the Mississipi financial crisis and because the Indian policy was mainly "make treaties with as much indian potentats as possibles to hold British rule". You didn't have a real colonisation plan, just "make England less powerful thanks to colonies".

And, as said, the economical and geopolitical interests were more continental than colonials.
 
The French start settling the East Coast of North America in the 1500s, relying on it to supply them with adequate lumber resources to construct a more reliable naval force. After outcompeting the Dutch in the fur trade in North America, kicking them out of the Saint Lawrence River valley in the French and Indian Wars, while the French also manage to conquer their settlements in Cape Town and the Guyanas. From here, the French are able to better supply their trading posts and allies in India, leading to a heavier French presence in Asia. Due to the increased number of ships traveling to the Indies, the French stumble upon Australie, exploring it and soon rediscovering Nouvelle-Zélande. Soon, French explorers and farmers begin to settle in these new territories, converting the natives to the Catholic faith.

I have no idea if that is all possible, but it sounded nice in my head.

It makes sense from the benefit of hindsight, but not the understanding France's leaders have as of the 16th century.

Not impossible, although such colonies are going to be hard to set up (not just a French problem, however).

And it has such huge impacts on Europe to have a France focused on the New World like this that I don't even know where to start.
 
You'd also have to allow the Huguenots to settle in the colonies, rather than barring them and then expelling them.
 
You'd also have to allow the Huguenots to settle in the colonies, rather than barring them and then expelling them.

It would be stupid move from French crown : the main problem with french protestants was they wanted territorial autonomy as well religious freedom.

Making a colony settled by them would made it, in the exact same instant, lost for the crown.
 
It makes sense from the benefit of hindsight, but not the understanding France's leaders have as of the 16th century.

Not impossible, although such colonies are going to be hard to set up (not just a French problem, however).

And it has such huge impacts on Europe to have a France focused on the New World like this that I don't even know where to start.

Well, I took a university course on French colonization and they said that early on, the French tried to use Brazil as a source for wood in the 1500s to build ships but then gave up once the Portuguese kicked them out. I figure if they could just shift their focus to North America, they'd be better off. But yeah, it would take a change in the leadership's mindset and a devotion that would prevent them from being so focused on European matters.
 
Well, I took a university course on French colonization and they said that early on, the French tried to use Brazil as a source for wood in the 1500s to build ships but then gave up once the Portuguese kicked them out. I figure if they could just shift their focus to North America, they'd be better off. But yeah, it would take a change in the leadership's mindset and a devotion that would prevent them from being so focused on European matters.

Well, you have France and french explorers. The interest of the last weren't really the same than the one of king and the court, or even the interests of the country.

It's basically what happened at Madagascar, where the bourgeoisie of La Réunion managed to convince the government to colonize the island, and that was costly for everyone while only this metis bourgeoisie benefited from the expedition.
 
Well, I took a university course on French colonization and they said that early on, the French tried to use Brazil as a source for wood in the 1500s to build ships but then gave up once the Portuguese kicked them out. I figure if they could just shift their focus to North America, they'd be better off. But yeah, it would take a change in the leadership's mindset and a devotion that would prevent them from being so focused on European matters.

Precisely the problem (underlined part). Fix that, somehow, and we can talk about how things would go. But so long as France's primary concern is Europe - which makes a lot of sense given France's resources and position, it should be noted - any colonies are ultimately going to suffer for that, sooner or later.
 
This is why I'm glad my ASB French timeline doesn't have to worry about dealing with European problems. Since it's off the coast of North America, France has much more reason and impetus for exploring and settling the New World.

But back to the topic, maybe if France got kicked out of Italy sooner they'd try to recoup some glory by searching for resources in the New World?
 
This is why I'm glad my ASB French timeline doesn't have to worry about dealing with European problems. Since it's off the coast of North America, France has much more reason and impetus for exploring and settling the New World.

But back to the topic, maybe if France got kicked out of Italy sooner they'd try to recoup some glory by searching for resources in the New World?

They'd just try again. What you need is a reason France stops focusing on the continent - and the land half of hybrid (OTL France) is always going to be France's strong suit. This is a problem.
 
But back to the topic, maybe if France got kicked out of Italy sooner they'd try to recoup some glory by searching for resources in the New World?

Not sure, the problem of France, unlike Spain or England, is that the country is litteraly surrounded by relative powerful states.
Austria, Spain (without talking about the union of both), England, even Dutch regarding to seafare...

It's a constant call to "focus on the borders".
 
Not sure, the problem of France, unlike Spain or England, is that the country is litteraly surrounded by relative powerful states.
Austria, Spain (without talking about the union of both), England, even Dutch regarding to seafare...

It's a constant call to "focus on the borders".

Could their be a union between Spain and France instead of Spain being inherited by the Habsburgs? Say, Joanna marries Louis XII at some point and then their children inherit both kingdoms.
 
Could their be a union between Spain and France instead of Spain being inherited by the Habsburgs? Say, Joanna marries Louis XII at some point and then their children inherit both kingdoms.

Mmm...I'm not sure about it.

First, the Habsurg union worked because Iberian peoples tought that "hey our king is far from us now, so we can do anything we want", unless Charles showed that he actually wanted to really exerces his power everywhere.

A french king would have been more obviously able to keep a control, and less likely accepted by iberians.

Second, the french custom is when it's inherited, then it belongs to France. No real different customs allowed, not talking about different laws and spanish elites would have been REALLY reluctant to be francised.

Third, I wonder if France would have the capacity of actually take control of Spain. Probably that yes, but not without trouble.

So why not, but the american colonies would have recieved much less attention and focus than OTL under Spanish crown.
 
It`s not unfeasible to have France ending up with Egypt and a good chunk of India. Would just require a more stable France.

Say a victory or a draw in the seven years war and France turning into a stable constitutional monarchy. Or a stable republic without the excesses of the french revolution. A France like that would easily dominate the mediterranean and snatch more colonies.
 
The perenial problem of France from the age of discoveries all the way to the present day is that France has got her arse between two chairs as we would say in French. One chair is a continental strategy and the other one is a maritime strategy.
Let's not even talk about the fact that French maritime power is divided between the Atlantic and the Mediterranean as well for geographic reasons.

The closest France came to adopting a maritime strategy was during the later parts of the 18th century before the Revolution. The Navy was at times slightly more powerful than the British one and French maritime commerce was thriving with its easy access to Haitian sugar.

Napoleon was the other extreme since his strategy was fully continental, to the extent that his policy of continental blockade decisively shifted the centre of gravity of France eastwards, where it presently remains.

I am tempted to say that perhaps, just perhaps the control of present day Belgium would enable France to shift far more resources towards maritime expansion. Taking advantage of the port of Antwerp for these purposes. On the other hand it is almost a given that this could merely seed the seeds for more conflicts on land with the Hapsburgs or later on Prussia or a German power.

An interesting POD would be a Protestant France as while this would create conflicts with the Hapsburgs this could also shift French politics towards a far more mercantile and maritime direction.

If we are looking at the colonial Empire built during the 19th century. Once again it was a compromise creation between those wanting a revenge against Germany and others wanting to export the French civilizing values overseas.
In order to build up a more powerful Empire with "Dominions equivalents" a stronger and more dynamic French demography is needed. With a demography like Germany, Italy and the will to do so. France could easily have swamped North Africa with settlers, forcibly converting and assimilating the natives.

With more investment and more spendings aimed at improving the native conditions. French West Africa could have turned into something interesting, but unlike Indochina its potential was then too limited to be of interest to entrepreneurs and investors.
 
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