A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

CaliGuy

Banned
While the idea of a Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler might seem extremely radical considering what Hitler actually did to the Jews in real life, I don't think that this idea is completely implausible with a sufficient early "point of departure" (PoD) from real life. Indeed, here is what I am thinking of here:

Sometime in either the early 1920s or the mid-1920s (but before Mein Kampf is published; else, it would probably already be too late for Hitler to convincing do this), Adolf Hitler somehow (say, perhaps as a result of a head injury) experiences a small epiphany. As a result of this epiphany, Hitler realizes that not all Jews are bad and that rather many/most Jews are actually both loyal and patriotic towards Germany. (Indeed, such a view certainly wasn't radical during this time; after all, Winston Churchill wrote an article with a similar theme in 1920: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Zionism_versus_Bolshevism ) In addition to this, though, Adolf Hitler goes further than that in this TL; to elaborate on this, in this TL, Hitler (as a supporter and proponent of forcibly Germanizing neighboring ethnic groups and peoples) comes to admire most European Jews for their use of the Yiddish language (which, as far as I know, is mutually intelligible to the German language in its spoken form). Indeed, in this TL, Hitler believes that European Jews' use of the Yiddish language makes them more "Germanized" in comparison to other European ethnic groups such as Poles and Russians and thus believes that (Yiddish-speaking) European Jews are more deserving of respect and admiration than Poles, Russians, et cetera.

To clarify--in this TL, Adolf Hitler is still rabidly anti-socialist and anti-Marxist and an extreme German nationalist who supports using military force to acquire additional Lebensraum for Germany as well as who supports forcibly Germanizing neighboring ethnic groups and peoples (such as Poles and Russians whom he deems to be "worthy" of being Germanized). Indeed, the only thing that would be different about Adolf Hitler in this TL is that rather than viewing all Jews as being bad, Hitler would (like Winston Churchill in 1920) draw a distinction between (in Winston Churchill's own words) "good Jews" (as in, Jews who aren't actively involved in either socialist or Communist movements) and "bad Jews" (as in, Jews who are actively involved in either socialist or Communist movements). Plus, in this TL, Hitler would be proud of the fact that most European Jews speak Yiddish and use it as an example of a successful (partial) Germanization of a different ethnic group (in this case, the Jews) which he wants to emulate and copy in regards to other ethnic groups (such as Poles and Russians) whom he wants to put under Germany's control. (In turn, this would mean that Hitler would actually treat "good Jews" very favorably in this TL--as opposed to putting them in ghettos and concentration camps and committing genocide against them like he did in our TL.)

Now, one might wonder as to whether such a philo-Semitic position on Adolf Hitler's part would result in his leadership of the Nazi Party being successfully challenged. Frankly, I think that such a leadership challenge to Hitler is unlikely to have succeeded. After all, in this TL, Hitler is still both an extreme German nationalist and an extreme anti-Marxist and anti-socialist; rather, the only thing that is different about Hitler in this scenario is that he actually differentiates between "good Jews" and "bad Jews" rather than viewing all Jews as bad (like he unfortunately (and inaccurately) did in our TL). Plus, even in the 1920s, a large part--indeed, perhaps most--of the Nazi Party's success was probably attributed to Hitler; thus, having a philo-Semitic Hitler lead the Nazi Party in this TL is probably something that most members of the Nazi Party would tolerate--however reluctantly.

Meanwhile, in regards to the question of whether or not a philo-Semitic Hitler would have still been able to gain power in Germany in the early 1930s, I see absolutely no reason as to why exactly he would have been unable to do this. After all, as far as I know, most of the people who voted for Hitler (and for the Nazi Party) in the early 1930s didn't vote for him due to his anti-Semitism, but rather due to their belief that he can improve and fix the German economy. Indeed, I see absolutely no reason that this belief would be any different in this scenario.

Also, in regards to the consequences of a philo-Semitic Adolf Hitler being in power in Germany starting from 1933, here is what I think the consequences of this would have been:

-There would obviously be no anti-Semitic discrimination or mass killings of Jews in Germany and in German-controlled areas. (Of course, Jews who are active in socialist or Communist movements will be treated just like ethnic Germans and other ethnic groups who are active in socialist or Communist movements--as in, extremely badly; however, there will certainly be no specific anti-Jewish discrimination and anti-Jewish mass murder in this scenario.)

-As a result of its lack of anti-Semitism, Nazi Germany is probably going to have a better image in the West in the 1930s in this scenario (at least until the start of World War II).

-Germany's Jewish population doesn't massively emigrate during Nazi rule and survives World War II intact (since the Nazis certainly aren't going to be interested in killing German and European Jews en masse in this TL).

-During its conquests in Eastern Europe (during World War II), Nazi Germany is going to actively seek cooperation and collaboration with Eastern Europe's Yiddish-speaking Jewish population. Due to the fond Jewish memories of German occupation of large parts of Eastern Europe during World War I (including by my Jewish great-great-grandparents), there would probably be many Jews (both in Germany and in other parts of Europe) who would be willing to cooperate and to collaborate with Nazi Germany in this TL.

-The lack of Nazi German anti-Semitism might cause less Jewish scientists to immigrate to the U.S., which in turn might result in a somewhat slower nuclear weapons program in the U.S. and thus maybe in an outright U.S. invasion of Japan in either late 1945 or sometime in 1946 due to the fact that Japan probably won't unconditionally surrender to the Allies as early as it did in our TL (when two nuclear weapons were used by the U.S. against Japan).

-The Jewish cooperation and collaboration with Nazi Germany in this TL is probably going to cause Joseph Stalin to deport Soviet Jews en masse to the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, Siberia, and/or Central Asia in this scenario after the end of World War II just like he did with the Crimean Tatars (and possibly with the Chechens as well) in our TL.

-Due to their greater isolation from the major Soviet population centers (as a result of their post-World War II deportations to the middle of nowhere), Soviet Jews are probably going to be unable to try launching escape attempts from the Soviet Union like they tried doing in our TL. Thus, countries such as the U.S. would probably be less willing to accept Soviet Jewish refugees during the Cold War than they were in our TL.

-Just like with some Volksdeutsche (such as some of the Black Sea Germans), I strongly suspect that, during its retreat from Eastern Europe, Nazi Germany will help evacuate many Yiddish-speaking (and thus "partially Germanized") Jews from Eastern Europe to Germany proper in order to help them escape the wrath of the Red Army. In turn, this might very well result in a much larger Jewish community after the end of World War II in comparison to 1933.

-The U.N. certainly isn't going to approve the creation of Israel in this TL (due to the lack of Nazi genocide against the Jews). In turn, this means that while Zionist Jews in Palestine might very well stage an insurgency against both the British and the Palestinians, Israel is unlikely to survive for very long even if it wins its 1948-1949 war with the Arabs. After all, in this TL, Western countries are probably going to view Israel as a rogue, illegitimate state while the Soviet Union would probably be unlikely to help Israel out due to Soviet memories of Jewish cooperation and collaboration with Nazi Germany during World War II. In turn, this means that Israel probably isn't going to have any Great Power allies in this TL; thus, even if the Arabs will fail to destroy Israel in 1948-1949 in this TL, the Arabs will probably succeed in eventually destroying Israel in this TL (especially considering that the lack of Great Power support means that Israel's nuclear weapons program is going to advance at a slower rate/pace in this TL in comparison to our TL).

-After the likely destruction of Israel (whenever it will occur) in this TL, Israel's Jewish population will probably immigrate to either Europe or the U.S.; indeed, I strongly suspect that a lot of Israeli Jews will immigrate to Germany in this TL due to the fact that post-World War II Germany will probably be the center of Western European Jewish life in this TL.

-If the Soviet Union eventually collapses in this TL, then the large (and probably very assimilated) Jewish community in Germany in this TL (whose numbers will probably be significantly increased as a result of the evacuation of a lot of Jews from Eastern Europe to Germany during World War II) will lobby for Germany to accept extremely large numbers of Jewish immigrants from the former Soviet Union (who, in this TL, have spent decades being stuck in the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, Siberia, and/or Central Asia). Indeed, given the influence of the Jewish community in Germany in this TL, I suspect that Germany's Jewish community will be successful in lobbying the German government to accept extremely large numbers of Jewish immigrants from the former Soviet Union in this TL.

-As a result of its extremely large, booming, vibrant, and thriving Jewish community in the late 20th and early 21st centuries in this TL, Germany will probably also be a magnet for large-scale Jewish immigration from other European countries (such as France, where there unfortunately appears to be a lot of Muslim anti-Semitism) in this TL--especially considering that Israel would have probably already been destroyed (and thus have ceased to exist as a state) by this point in time (as in, by the end of the 20th century) in this TL.

Anyway, any thoughts on everything that I wrote here?
 
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NoMommsen

Donor
Interesting ... though I don't have the time to read all of what you've written about consequences.

Will provide another idea for a PoD later on. One that doesn't (maybe) need an "epiphany".
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Interesting ... though I don't have the time to read all of what you've written about consequences.

Yeah--it was a big idea and I had to write down a lot of thoughts about it. :)

Will provide another idea for a PoD later on. One that doesn't (maybe) need an "epiphany".

Please do! :)

Also, though, not all epiphanies are unrealistic.
 
Why does Germany have to lose the war in this TL? If anything Hitler virtually gained himself a German victory. Much of the Jewish intellectuals and upper class will stay in Germany and become some of its top leaders in the war. Albert Einstein could probably be recruited by Hitler and could contribute to the building of the atomic bomb, along with other Jewish scientists who decided to stay. Without the extermination of Jews, there is likely no holocaust, and with it a HUGE amount of resources that would've been wasted by the SS for genocide is now going to the western front and the eastern front. Without any racial purges, Nazi Germany is looked on more favorably in the west and the American Nazi party would probably grow tremendously in size. Unless Hitler does something stupid like declare war on the U.S then he only has to fight the west and the Soviet Union. On the topic of the Soviet Union, wouldn't it make more sense for TTL'S Hitler to be pragmatic and try to portray himself as a liberator to the Slavs under the Soviet rule. He could actually ally with Poland since the Fascist Polish government was tempted to do so before the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, there could also be one grand crusade against the Soviet Union with the Wehrmacht being entirely dedicated to eliminating Stalin and Communism from the face of the Earth. Ukrainians, Belorussians, and other ethnic minorities would probably actually want to live in Germany unless they are targeted for persecution. So in essence a Judeophillic Hitler is an instant win for Germany.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Why does Germany have to lose the war in this TL? If anything Hitler virtually gained himself a German victory. Much of the Jewish intellectuals and upper class will stay in Germany and become some of its top leaders in the war. Albert Einstein could probably be recruited by Hitler and could contribute to the building of the atomic bomb, along with other Jewish scientists who decided to stay. Without the extermination of Jews, there is likely no holocaust, and with it a HUGE amount of resources that would've been wasted by the SS for genocide is now going to the western front and the eastern front. Without any racial purges, Nazi Germany is looked on more favorably in the west and the American Nazi party would probably grow tremendously in size. Unless Hitler does something stupid like declare war on the U.S then he only has to fight the west and the Soviet Union. On the topic of the Soviet Union, wouldn't it make more sense for TTL'S Hitler to be pragmatic and try to portray himself as a liberator to the Slavs under the Soviet rule. He could actually ally with Poland since the Fascist Polish government was tempted to do so before the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, there could also be one grand crusade against the Soviet Union with the Wehrmacht being entirely dedicated to eliminating Stalin and Communism from the face of the Earth. Ukrainians, Belorussians, and other ethnic minorities would probably actually want to live in Germany unless they are targeted for persecution. So in essence a Judeophillic Hitler is an instant win for Germany.
This TL's Hitler still pursues stupid policies in other respects, though; indeed, he is simply Judeophilic.

Also, though, why would Einstein want to work for a racist leader of Germany even if he is a Judeophile?
 
It's a common trope of alternatehistory where in a Germany that doesn't persecute Jews, Einstein will be head of the atomic bomb project
 
If you look of what Hitler actually thought about Jewish people IOTL, he was respectful/fearfull+hatefull against them. He considered them the prime antagonist of the Aryans. To be fought and exterminated because they could lead international conspiracies against Germany.
Why dont you let him keep 99% of his OTL beliefs, but come to the different conclusion that a markedly pro-Jewish attitude could win International support for Germany. A conspiracy to let Germany Prosper at the expense of anti-semitic states.
I dont think hypocracy is beneath Hitler.
 
Hitler's Captain in WW1 was Jewish. Perhaps have more of his close comrades be jewish as well. Perhaps this would be enough to change Hitlers mind on his anti-semitism?

Although a less anti-semitic Hitler doesn't butterfly away the treatment of homosexuals, Gypsies and the mentally handicapped!
 
I've always thought that a rational Hitler (!) should have served the Jews, as they were the obvious master-race as despite their despised position they were controlling everything.... :openedeyewink:
 
To remove his racism against Jews would be to remove his racism altogether, why would Hitler hate Slavs while not hating Jews who were by far despised more by the German population and anti semnitism was more ingrained.

If he did not hold these beliefs I doubt the suicidal Barbarossa would have been attempted. Maybe Hitler only tries to reclaim former German and ethnic German lands.
 
Hitler's mother was treated by a Jewish doctor, but later he only protected this one Jew, not all the other ones.

But if you'd like a quote: In "Stadt ohne Juden" (City without Jews), an antisemitic chancellor of Austria kicks out all the Jews. Things work out less well than he expected. Then, at one point the protagonist says: "A smart government would recognize the different talents of the Jews and use them for good purposes." Someone from the crowd answers: "...a smart government, yeah, but we have a dumb one!"

It's a good book, and also pretty entertaining, despite the serious topic. (Then again, it was written before Hitler.)
 
After all, as far as I know, most of the people who voted for Hitler (and for the Nazi Party) in the early 1930s didn't vote for him due to his anti-Semitism, but rather due to their belief that he can improve and fix the German economy.

I am skeptical of that idea. The reason why Hitler could make the argument that he could fix the German economy is because he could sell his very simplistic idea of why the economy was broken: "the Jews did it, we just have to clear them out, and I'll do that". Plus his incarceration and Mein Kampf helped him a lot on the principle of "there is no such thing as bad publicity". If he doesn't say the Jews did it... what can he say? If he wants to pretend to be a socialist, the KPD and the SPD will do a much better job at that and will wreck Hitler at the elections (they had much closer ties to the organized working class than Hitler did). Also, I'm not sure Hitler would have received as much support from right-wing business magnates, plus other antisemitic forces would have blasted Hitler on his philosemitism - and, finally, I'm not sure what this alt-Hitler's programme would be exactly, but if it's mostly just focused on "moar Lebensraum!", well, that alone wouldn't have been very convincing in the Weimar era when there was already a lot of fighting at home and when fixing the economy was the main issue for a lot of people. Sure, there are people who can be hypnotized by this kind of nationalist snake-charming, but there were other, more established parties who did that kind of stuff. My guess is that your Hitler would simply become irrelevant in comparison to the DNVP.

To remove his racism against Jews would be to remove his racism altogether, why would Hitler hate Slavs while not hating Jews who were by far despised more by the German population and anti semnitism was more ingrained.

>implying racism is rational and logical like that
 

MrP

Banned
It's a common trope of alternatehistory
A very common one indeed. There seems to be a lot of fascination for the concept of an alternate Hitler who somehow doesn't become the poster boy of genocidal antisemitism. The problem with this idea is that Hitler's prejudices were a package deal, you can't magically turn him into someone who doesn't hate Jews without turning him into a different person altogether--we call it pulling a "Notler".
 
A very common one indeed. There seems to be a lot of fascination for the concept of an alternate Hitler who somehow doesn't become the poster boy of genocidal antisemitism. The problem with this idea is that Hitler's prejudices were a package deal, you can't magically turn him into someone who doesn't hate Jews without turning him into a different person altogether--we call it pulling a "Notler".

There are infinite versions of "Notler". I think though what should be stressed is that Hitler's personality will still be the same: stubborn, paranoid, and definetly type A.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
If he did not hold these beliefs I doubt the suicidal Barbarossa would have been attempted. Maybe Hitler only tries to reclaim former German and ethnic German lands.
Such a Hitler would still have a belief that Germany needs Lebensraum as well as to crush and destroy socialism and Communism, though.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
Hitler's Captain in WW1 was Jewish. Perhaps have more of his close comrades be jewish as well. Perhaps this would be enough to change Hitlers mind on his anti-semitism?
That's about the PoD I have in mind. This captain (can't recall his name from my head right now) was also responsible for Hitler gaining the Iron Cross he was so proud of.

There are some historians saying that Hitler mind wasn't made up where to turn after the war : to the right, to the left; he joined the 'revolutionary' Muinich, was elected as a 'soldier councellor' ... before he returned to the armys counterintelligence and later reported his earlier revolutionary comrades. He even attended Kurt Eisners funeral. Even his antisemitism didn't exceed much of the 'usual' wide-spread one at that point in time (January to March 1919).
At that time his mind was far from the radicalism he showed later though already that year.

Now :
lets assume AH takes in January/February a trip to Nuemberg to - maybe - make some sketches of its impressive old castle in the clear winter sky. There, by chance he meets his old captain. They go off to a pub for talking of ol' times. At that time AH wasn't already the vegetarian abstinezler he was later on. Getting rid of their body waters after the one or other beer, invited by the captain, Hitler discovers bewildered his captain is circumcised ... a jew.
The captain askes AH about his sudden bewilderness and they start to talk about, as the captain remembers a bit of AH sometime 'strange' behavior and arguments in trench times, reveals, that he is at first ... was at first subject to the Kaiser, thean to the Bavarian king, then a proud son of his hometown, beautifull Nuremberg, then the son to his father and very much down the count he is also a jew, but that doesn't mean much, only a few additional celebrations the the ones also celebrated within his family like easter and christmas.
And Hitler should not make the error to compare him to the 'filthy eastern jew'.
A subdivision of european jewish population regarded as described even by many of the assimilated jews not only in germany. This would even enforce Hitlers experiences he had in Vienna, where was a clear distinction between the assimilated and the 'stubborn eastern' jews, clinging to their version of orthodoxy.

And at that point Hitlers mind might snap on another course : that it's lesser the jewish 'flesh' than the jewish 'thinking' (or ideology, whatever that might be), that threatens to down-take germany and the western civilisation.
'German thinking' in a jewish body is a 'good jew' a 'german jew'. As worthy as this/his captain (also bearer of the Iron Cross). The man might become the 'model' of a good jew, ITTL even raise to prominence in Hitlers regime later on.

... open for the butterlies to take off :)
 
A very common one indeed. There seems to be a lot of fascination for the concept of an alternate Hitler who somehow doesn't become the poster boy of genocidal antisemitism. The problem with this idea is that Hitler's prejudices were a package deal, you can't magically turn him into someone who doesn't hate Jews without turning him into a different person altogether--we call it pulling a "Notler".
In my experience it tends to stem from a desire to explore Germany winning WWII without having to deal with the Holocaust, Generalplan Ost, and other German atrocities.
 
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