A House of Lamps: A Moorish America

Is cataluña part of France or is independent? in a way Catalan dream being out of spain(here andalusia) become real..and just a nightmare under france?

That Kill the clasico

Ara Javi Island Republcs/ALT Indonesia Muslim?

Aragon is a independent democratic nation. It is overwhelmingly Catalan with a muslim Andalusi minority concentrated near Valencia and the Balearics. Its basically a Catalan nation-state. Its history after the 1700s is pretty bleak, with powerful neighbors interfering in its affairs, preventing it from ever regaining even a modest level of its former glory. It is now one of Europes most stable modern democracies, with a thriving tourism sector and tech industry. Not that everything is perfect. There is a great deal of political gridlock, some serious environmental problems in the urban areas on the Iberian mainland, and deep inequality between social classes.

It is a very fascinating TL already. Lot of things are quite original. You don't see these kind of TLs every day.

On unrelated note, what happened to Salafism AKA Wahhabism ITL? I doubt Colonial Middle-East will be peaceful because of colonial rule.

The entire modern phenomenae of Sunni jihadism does not exist in the same way in this timeline. The modern Mideast is poor, violent, and deeply divided between awkwardly shaped colonial states, but there is less global energy poured into the region. Oil is less valuable in this timeline with a greater reliance on alternative energy sources from the get-go, so that alone reduces the regions importance. Radical Islamic militant movements exist as disparate revolutionary movements across the region, but do not make a consious effort to promote a sort of 'global jihad'. Groups closer to something like Hamas, or Hezbollah (though its shia but the overall concept stands), are much more common ATL. There is no Iranian revolution, no rise of the House of Saud, no Al-Qaeda, no daesh / ISIL etc.

Salafism is not Wahhabism, calling that is like calling a Religious Marxist is the same to a facist...

They're both puritanical strains of Sunni Islam, so some confusion is understandable.

ITTL you do have more Mahdist movements world-wide. Especially in the New World, radical groups have been a thorn in the side of Misican officials for decades. Misica even fueled these groups in its frontier regions for decades to serve as proxy fighters where the central government was unwilling to devote troops. There is a deep, long tradition of millenarian armed groups in Islamic Amerindian societies which exists to the present day ATL. ATL Arizona is basically OTL northern Mali lol.
 
The entire modern phenomenae of Sunni jihadism does not exist in the same way in this timeline. The modern Mideast is poor, violent, and deeply divided between awkwardly shaped colonial states, but there is less global energy poured into the region. Oil is less valuable in this timeline with a greater reliance on alternative energy sources from the get-go, so that alone reduces the regions importance. Radical Islamic militant movements exist as disparate revolutionary movements across the region, but do not make a consious effort to promote a sort of 'global jihad'. Groups closer to something like Hamas, or Hezbollah (though its shia but the overall concept stands), are much more common ATL. There is no Iranian revolution, no rise of the House of Saud, no Al-Qaeda, no daesh / ISIL etc.

They're both puritanical strains of Sunni Islam, so some confusion is understandable.

ITTL you do have more Mahdist movements world-wide. Especially in the New World, radical groups have been a thorn in the side of Misican officials for decades. Misica even fueled these groups in its frontier regions for decades to serve as proxy fighters where the central government was unwilling to devote troops. There is a deep, long tradition of millenarian armed groups in Islamic Amerindian societies which exists to the present day ATL. ATL Arizona is basically OTL northern Mali lol.
How common are Christian militants in this timeline? Are they more frequent or is religious militancy still mainly a Muslim phenomena?
 
1. Fantastic timeline and I love the map!

2. Would you mind listing some country populations? I’m just curious as to what the populations of all the major nations would be ITTL.
 
How common are Christian militants in this timeline? Are they more frequent or is religious militancy still mainly a Muslim phenomena?

This timeline has many nationalist militant groups, and many of those groups blend nationalism with religion. There simply is no close equivalent to OTL's global jihadist movement ATL. There are Christian militias in eastern S. America, mostly leftovers from the recent wars in those states, some groups in the Gulf Coast area, Australia, and all across Africa. Theres a fair few in central Europe, southwestern France, the Caucasus and the Balkans too. The closest to something like Al-Qaeda might be the Haggala in N. America.

As I have mentioned previously, large parts of OTL Mexico through the American SW and Great Plains are loosely governed frontier regions, with local powers relying on militas to keep order. These militias are divided along ethnic (Arab, Amerindian, Christian generally) religious (Christian vs. Muslim) and national (Seitun, Haicalia, Misica etc.) lines. One of the smaller states in the area, Haicalia, originally won its independence as a bastion of Christian, Iberian settlers against more powerful French and Muslim neighbors. It was neutral during the Western War, but local settlers organized many groups to cross the border north to fight on both sides. One of these, the Haggala started to protect Christian settlers from Muslim aggression in the north but grew into a larger group aimed on pushing Muslims out of N. America entirely. It is primarily Christian Europeans of Iberian descent with a large number of Amerindian recruits from its bases further north. They have smaller affiliate groups across N. America. Alternatively, the largest muslim militia would be the LAS / AS (l'armee secrete or the المجاهدين (the mujahidun as they call themselves). Each group has somewhat similar tactics to OTL terrorist groups but neither reach the same level of ambition and international organization.

1. Fantastic timeline and I love the map!

2. Would you mind listing some country populations? I’m just curious as to what the populations of all the major nations would be ITTL.

I am a liberal arts major, so i dont do the number gud, but I would estimate that the most populous nation might be the C.O.S, Kongo or India at about 500 million - 900+ Million each. Global populations are smaller in this timeline overall, and OTL population powerhouse China in this timeline has not industrialized even close as much. India takes the top spot instead.
 
This timeline has many nationalist militant groups, and many of those groups blend nationalism with religion. There simply is no close equivalent to OTL's global jihadist movement ATL. There are Christian militias in eastern S. America, mostly leftovers from the recent wars in those states, some groups in the Gulf Coast area, Australia, and all across Africa. Theres a fair few in central Europe, southwestern France, the Caucasus and the Balkans too. The closest to something like Al-Qaeda might be the Haggala in N. America.

As I have mentioned previously, large parts of OTL Mexico through the American SW and Great Plains are loosely governed frontier regions, with local powers relying on militas to keep order. These militias are divided along ethnic (Arab, Amerindian, Christian generally) religious (Christian vs. Muslim) and national (Seitun, Haicalia, Misica etc.) lines. One of the smaller states in the area, Haicalia, originally won its independence as a bastion of Christian, Iberian settlers against more powerful French and Muslim neighbors. It was neutral during the Western War, but local settlers organized many groups to cross the border north to fight on both sides. One of these, the Haggala started to protect Christian settlers from Muslim aggression in the north but grew into a larger group aimed on pushing Muslims out of N. America entirely. It is primarily Christian Europeans of Iberian descent with a large number of Amerindian recruits from its bases further north. They have smaller affiliate groups across N. America. Alternatively, the largest muslim militia would be the LAS / AS (l'armee secrete or the المجاهدين (the mujahidun as they call themselves). Each group has somewhat similar tactics to OTL terrorist groups but neither reach the same level of ambition and international organization.



I am a liberal arts major, so i dont do the number gud, but I would estimate that the most populous nation might be the C.O.S, Kongo or India at about 500 million - 900+ Million each. Global populations are smaller in this timeline overall, and OTL population powerhouse China in this timeline has not industrialized even close as much. India takes the top spot instead.
Thanks. How the heck does Kongo keep itself together, though. That nation is huge!
 
Thanks. How the heck does Kongo keep itself together, though. That nation is huge!

Heh, well in some ways it doesn't. Kongo was once part of the Sise and later Arab empires. As part of their administration, the Arabs carried out on a massive scale ethnic reorganization / cleansing to homogenize much of West Africa. Second, the entire region is more homogenous anyways because Islam is much more dominant in Africa in this timeline. Third, a ruthless military dictatorship successfully curbed any insurrection early on, and now that the economy is doing relatively well there is less hunger for open revolt. Kongo also has free elections. While the elections are dubious at best, it has given alternative means of political change besides open seccession.

Lastly, Kongo is now administered loosely, with many regions having a great deal of local autonomy. Its a lot of small factors combining to keep Kongo afloat.
 
This timeline has many nationalist militant groups, and many of those groups blend nationalism with religion. There simply is no close equivalent to OTL's global jihadist movement ATL. There are Christian militias in eastern S. America, mostly leftovers from the recent wars in those states, some groups in the Gulf Coast area, Australia, and all across Africa. Theres a fair few in central Europe, southwestern France, the Caucasus and the Balkans too. The closest to something like Al-Qaeda might be the Haggala in N. America.

As I have mentioned previously, large parts of OTL Mexico through the American SW and Great Plains are loosely governed frontier regions, with local powers relying on militas to keep order. These militias are divided along ethnic (Arab, Amerindian, Christian generally) religious (Christian vs. Muslim) and national (Seitun, Haicalia, Misica etc.) lines. One of the smaller states in the area, Haicalia, originally won its independence as a bastion of Christian, Iberian settlers against more powerful French and Muslim neighbors. It was neutral during the Western War, but local settlers organized many groups to cross the border north to fight on both sides. One of these, the Haggala started to protect Christian settlers from Muslim aggression in the north but grew into a larger group aimed on pushing Muslims out of N. America entirely. It is primarily Christian Europeans of Iberian descent with a large number of Amerindian recruits from its bases further north. They have smaller affiliate groups across N. America. Alternatively, the largest muslim militia would be the LAS / AS (l'armee secrete or the المجاهدين (the mujahidun as they call themselves). Each group has somewhat similar tactics to OTL terrorist groups but neither reach the same level of ambition and international organization.



I am a liberal arts major, so i dont do the number gud, but I would estimate that the most populous nation might be the C.O.S, Kongo or India at about 500 million - 900+ Million each. Global populations are smaller in this timeline overall, and OTL population powerhouse China in this timeline has not industrialized even close as much. India takes the top spot instead.

Is there any way to download the larger-sized map?
 
As far as I know no, but I uploaded it on dropbox here:

Just was looking over the map again, and I was wondering about the funky German-Polish border: I realize the Turkish invasions got further than OTL, reaching the Baltic (presumably overruning Poland for a while), and took almost all of Austria, but how much further did they get into the HRE? Not only has the OTL Germanization of Pomerania and Silesia (largely accomplished in Lower Silesia, at least, by the 1400s) been apparently reversed, but the border cuts through Bohemia with a cheerful disregard of geography, cutting through the central lowlands near Praha from mountain range to mountain range. (When did Germany unify, BTW?)
 
I tried to look at the map and it loaded but mere seconds afterwards got rid of it and told me that JPGs weren't supported.
Could someone please .PNG it or something, and get it on Imgur instead?
 
I tried to look at the map and it loaded but mere seconds afterwards got rid of it and told me that JPGs weren't supported.
Could someone please .PNG it or something, and get it on Imgur instead?

What did you use to look at it? Dropbox or the original link? A full .png file of the map is twice the size of the jpg (just converted it). I ran it at 30% size and its still way too big for imgur to handle. I would suggest downloading the map off dropbox if you want to look at it in full detail. Here is a downscaled .jpg version on imgur:
 
Just was looking over the map again, and I was wondering about the funky German-Polish border: I realize the Turkish invasions got further than OTL, reaching the Baltic (presumably overruning Poland for a while), and took almost all of Austria, but how much further did they get into the HRE? Not only has the OTL Germanization of Pomerania and Silesia (largely accomplished in Lower Silesia, at least, by the 1400s) been apparently reversed, but the border cuts through Bohemia with a cheerful disregard of geography, cutting through the central lowlands near Praha from mountain range to mountain range. (When did Germany unify, BTW?)

Ja. Ist ze fünky border. The Ottomans reached the baltic but only briefly, for a few years, before they lost the northern end of their empire to Polish and Prussian rebels. Part of a contributing factor to the eventual collapse of their Polish lands was the manner in which the Ottomans conquered them in the first place. The bulk of the Ottoman army spent its time campaigning farther south while free reign was given to entrepenurial captains to raid as they pleased throughout the Baltic region and Poland. Some Ottoman expeditions went very far but the lack of meaningful administration meant that once local forces rebuilt strength it was easier to remove Ottoman control across northern Poland.

In the west, Ottoman forces penetrated into Bavaria but never established control past (ironically) Passau. Bohemia was largely spared Ottoman conquest (not for a lack of trying on the Ottomans part) . A map of Ottoman expansion across central europe might look like a giant open mouth, with one jaw extending south into Germany and the other spilling out all the way north through Berlin (which was sacked once). Bohemias luck ran out when it was partitioned between Poland and Germany during the downfall of the Ottoman empire in the early 1800s. Its wars with the Ottomans left it economically and militarily devastated and it was absorbed into nearby powers not long after.

Germany unified during the mid 1700s - early 1800s, much of it as a response to the drastically greater scale of Ottoman expansion than OTL.
 
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