A House of Lamps: A Moorish America

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by dontfearme22, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. dontfearme22 Chicalotlatonti

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    Dec 18, 2013
    updates will become shorter and more infrequent due to irl committments, but I will ensure I force myself to put in a little bit of work when I can to keep them coming. If at some point I have to do a extended hiatus to focus elsewhere, ill post about it. Otherwise, take my silence as a indication of continued progress.
     
  2. corourke Member Donor

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    Can't wait to see what happens in south America
     
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  3. Ultima Ratio The Last Baron

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    May 1, 2010
    English Southern Cone, calling it now.
     
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  4. mythmonster2 Well-Known Member

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    Hm, with no Portugal, are any Europeans trying to go around Africa in this timeframe?
     
  5. dontfearme22 Chicalotlatonti

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    Good catch. There aren't really any. Instead it is the Moors, but unlike the Portuguese the Moors are more invested in inland trade and therefore have less of a drive to explore for virgin ports in the south (they already have access to the salt and gold Saharan trade routes the Portuguese hungered for, for example). The main contrast with OTL is that much of Western Africa is going to be more thoroughly islamized in this timeline, and there will also be more islamic intrusion into Kongo and farther south. Right now the Arabs have reached all the way down the western African coast, but the limit of actual definite trade is around northern Angola. In general coastal African trade is underdeveloped compared to OTL, due to a lack of interest and resources.
     
  6. JustAnotherFailedState Well-Known Member

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    Jan 24, 2018
    Wasnt the death rate being so high also a result of occupation and maltreatment (as well as and in addition to foodstock distrubancess and the like)rather than just disease alone? It is harder to fight off infection if your already under a great of strain. With just disease alone wouldnt it be closer to something like 70 percent? Or at least I remember hearing something like that in The Sons Of Inti will Survive thread.
     
  7. dontfearme22 Chicalotlatonti

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    Dec 18, 2013
    yes, yes, yes and yes.

    Just because the moors aren't going 100% down the "kill them all, god will sort it out" route doesn't mean they are angels. There is widespread violence against natives, especially non-converted ones, mistreatment, discrimination and slave trading all above the massive cultural conflicts, demographic changes and catastrophic spread of disease.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  8. JustAnotherFailedState Well-Known Member

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    Jan 24, 2018
    This Is a wonderful world youve crafted...but have you considered adding tags to the thread to make it easier to find? like say: ''Islamic Ibera'' and ''New World'' ''North America'' ''South America'' ''Castile'' ''Muslim Mayas FTW'' ''Moorish Americas'' and similiar?
     
  9. CountDVB Well-Known Member

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    Aug 26, 2017
    This is amazing! Just go and take your rest and such
     
  10. dontfearme22 Chicalotlatonti

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    Dec 18, 2013
    what and make it easier for people to follow? Just make them notice all my plot-holes. No chance

    [I'm still relatively new to formatting in this website and am rather uncomfortable with more intricate formatting like tags, shame as it is to say]
     
  11. Omar20 Cuban Universalist

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    Jul 8, 2016
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    Havana, Cuba
    Congratulations for your awesome timeline!!! I'm very impressed for all the imagnation, the work and the research it must take to write avery single one of those updates. Guess what? In real life I'm a Cuban of both Andalusian and Yucatecan origin named Omar. My ancestors came to Cuba in the mid-XIX century, though. I suppose in your TL there'll be a lot of Sayyadini like me, hahaha.
     
  12. dontfearme22 Chicalotlatonti

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    Dec 18, 2013
    You are just...my favorite person right now.

    [BTW, general update - I am incrementally piecing together the next big timeline update. The Ottomans will have their ups and their downs, the New World is going to get the guns, germs, and steel treatment from the Christians its avoided until now, and I will continue to spend a inordinate amount of time on internal Maghrebi politics (its my fetish)]. Expect it, all going well, in several weeks or a month+.
     
  13. Al-numbers Well-Known Member

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    And here I am, again. Oh well, better late than never. :p

    So Castile and France are embarking on their own forms of colonization. I can see New World Castilian culture erring a tad militaristic by virtue of them being neighbours with the muslim Riysh. It’s really interesting to think about it; perhaps there would be a tradition of young boys being required to serve under an ecomiendero if they wish to achieve manhood, or for lessons in shooting and crafting to be taught to the younger generation as soon as they could. Similarly, Castilian towns might be encouraged to produce domestic armour and weapons to stave off the pirates and bandits that would surely arrive from the south, making them more self-sufficient in material goods (though still bound in trade with mainland Iberia).

    For France, it seems they’re taking the approach that the British did IOTL, forming towns and forts along the rivers into the interior, trading lumber and pelts. French colonization could be more relaxed in terms of defence and Native American relations, though they would still grapple with local forces much like IOTL. I wonder they would be more relaxed in Christianization as well, but then again, this is during the era of the Protestant Reformation, so there might be a push for New World conversions in order to “save heathen souls for Christ.”

    I suspect there would be a certain ‘devil’s bargain’, on the locals part on whether to engage with all these foreign newcomers. The Castilians would be more suspicious of outsiders and definitely the more militaristic, and more pushy about their faith as well. I suspect most tribal peoples will either move away from Castilian settlements or fight to the death for their lands and culture. The French seem to be more relaxed and open, yet their intrusion into native lands could dim that openness really quickly. The Riyshi Muslims might also be an option to those living in the northern Riysh, especially since they won’t care much for religious vigor as long as there is valuable trade. Still, their penchant for slavery and piracy could snuff out what curiosity the locals have towards them.

    Also, please tell me Castile hasn’t imposed some sort of ‘Purity of Blood’ restrictions ITTL. Then again, this is a Castile that failed to advance any Reconquista, so there might be even more restrictions on whom shall emigrate to the colonies!


    It seemed? So the Christians will lose their advancements in colonialism soon enough? :D
     
  14. dontfearme22 Chicalotlatonti

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    Dec 18, 2013
    There is a robust culture of youthful military aristocrats in Castile that is a direct successor of the knightly systems of the middle ages, but with a healthy admixture of islamic raiding culture as well, a quasi-conquistador figure. In general, Castile in this timeline is much more heavily influenced by Islamic culture and thought, but by God they would never admit it.

    What is going to happen with the ecomienda's is that they will eventually become powerful semi-independent feudal plantations around the core of Castilian territory. There will be a land rush as european christian settlers rush into the New World to escape the claustrophobic conditions of Castile. There aren't exactly Limpieza de Sangra policies, since there was no Spanish Inquisition in this timeline proper. What will happen is 'blacklisting' of certain political and ethnic groups from accruing status in the new world, especially the Portuguese and the Moors living in spain. Many minority groups in Castile in this timeline are strictly bound by laws holding them to their traditional territories and lifestyles to keep them from gaining power and status. There will be some christianized moors in the Castilian new world, but they will be few, and persecuted. Just because there isn't as clear of a progression towards a racialized view of the world in this timeline doesn't mean that such social changes are still happening.

    The Castilians are in the new world ostensibly to save the savage, from the heathen. Christianize the natives to save them from the Moor. Many Castilians believe this mission very earnestly. There is a very strong missionary culture in Iberia right now, and a greater willingness to tolerate certain aspects of native culture to christianize them faster and bring them within the fold - the perception of a looming swarthy turbaned horde lurking just over the next hill is a very strong psychological factor in Castiles spread in the new world. The french are somewhat similar, but they are more isolated and feel more free to expand economically pell-mell without having to carve out their territory as much. As far as Paris is concerned, let the Spanish do the fighting, and they make the money.

    As for the natives, they can either choose Christianity and Castilian influence, or the Muslims, or flee deeper into the interior. Most are going to flee into the interior. The Riyshi's are far more lenient towards native culture than the Christians are (either France or Spain), and far more willing to conform themselves to native norms, a impossibility in the Christian colonies. Of those natives forced to choose, most will choose the Muslims unless compelled by force or the threat of it. The Muslim New World is a free-for-all, where natives can have a meaningful chance at preserving their own autonomy rather than live as subjugated second-class citizens in the Castilian Carolinas. Islams message of political liberation and equality also appeals to many native peoples (remember though, just as the Berbers embraced Islam for these reasons, they were entirely willing to ditch different sects until they found the one most politically expedient towards their own autonomy). A Muslim native is not necessarily one loyal to Seville.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  15. Mightyboosh5 Well-Known Member

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    May 7, 2015
    "Kharijite inspired rebellion by native auxiliary troops 2: electric boogaloo"
     
  16. Al-numbers Well-Known Member

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    I didn't know the Ayshunids have a space program. XD
     
  17. dontfearme22 Chicalotlatonti

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    Dec 18, 2013
    - fixed -

    [​IMG]
     
  18. dontfearme22 Chicalotlatonti

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    Dec 18, 2013
    Halfway finished with the Next timeline update, looking to be 1550 - 1600. Heres a preview of what the political situation in Morocco is looking like so far:
    [​IMG]

    The Ottomans are really going for broke in north africa, and the big party in the Riysh is gonna end, and its gonna be ugly.
     
  19. jennysnooper87 Proud Albish Citizen Since 2017

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    Nov 27, 2016
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    Los Angeles, California
    Ohhhhh, dear. An "Oh Crap" moment for both the Maya and the Moors?
     
  20. CountDVB Well-Known Member

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    Aug 26, 2017
    Danger or opportunity...?

    VIVA LA REVOLUCION!