A Holy Roman Empire Centered Around Italy

In OTL, the Holy Roman Empire was centered around Germany. What if it were centered around Italy instead? What would become of the disunified Germany?
 
Even when the OTL core of the HRE was the German Kingdom (East Francia & Lotharingia), the kingdom of Italy had a symbolic importance, certainly during the medieval period.

Also with TTL HRE centred around Italy, the German kingdom might have a better shot to unify than it had IOTL.
 
I'd assume the emperor would have had greater resources to put down revolts in Germany if he is based in Italy,meaning he would have greater control of Italy.It would also mean that he has greater control over the Pope,meaning no Investiture Controversy and greater control over the empire.
 
IMHO a possibility might be a Berengar I more successful in handling the Hungar problem. It would give him the chance to consolidate a hold on the great feudataries and, together with a successful expulsion of Saracens from the Gargano peninsula in Puglia (which he carried out successfully IOTL) would put him in a very strong position with the church. For what is worth, he even managed to be crowned emperor but his power base was not strong enough due to the Hungar incursions and his demesnes were in Friuli, not right in the middle of the Padan plain.

Even assuming that he manages the Hungars and appoints as heir his grandchild Berengar II (Berengar I had no sons, just two daughters. One married the marquis of Ivrea, Berengar II is her son) there are still a number of issues to manage: let's say that East Frankia is still unsettled, and his north border is relatively secure (and possibly the Hungars repelled from Italy might put pressure on them), but he still has to deal decisively with the duchy of Spoleto (another family with regal/imperial ambitions) and with the kingdom of Arles (which IOTL intervened in Italy, although with much success). And of course the papacy in Rome has to be handled with a lot of care (Spoleto is close enough to Rome, and the dukes had always a faction in Rome, often the strongest one). A possible winning strategy might be to try and conquer the south of Italy, starting with the semi-independent lordships and principalities in Campania. Sooner or later he will have to deal with the remaining Byzantine territories in the south of Italy (Puglia, Calabria and Syracuse IIRC): a window of opportunity might come with the assassination of Leo V in 820 and the rebellion of Thomas the Slav. Taking advantage of the weakness of the ERE (and the surge of Arab attacks in the east) a show of force coupled with a judicious amount of bribes might be enough.

I will stop here, since I do feel this is becoming a Berengarian wank.
My idea is that Berengar has a window of 20 years (820-840) to gobble up southern Italy, put Rome firmly under his control and take advantage of the troubles in the kingdom of Arles. If he manages to do that (and it is a big if) then there is an HRE based on Italy.
 
How late of a POD is allowed here?

Let's say that John, Prince of Asturias lives and reigns as King of Castile, later of Aragon, et cetera. The Hapsburgs are therefore deprived of Spain. Assuming John has children by his Hapsburg wife, those heirs will go on to rule Spain and its empire, thereby dashing the prospects f a universal monarchy under the Hapsburg dynasty. Thus, perhaps we see one branch of the Hapsburgs rule in the German, Burgundian, and Hungarian lands (if butterflies don't change the succession of the latter), while the other rules in gradually more and more of Italy? Control the butterflies on marriages, and enough of a situation might be created to see the HRE title pass to the Italian family in the 1600s or 1700s when the branches end in the male line.
 
I see two possibilities:
Prevent the coronation of Otto I as king of Italy and emperor and some kings in Italy could name themselves emperors. Maybe Germany would then become a normal kingdom with some conflicts with eastern neighbours.
The German kings could reduce the power of the duces and create a much more unified kingdom.
Maybe the emperors in Italy would be first weak but that could change through time.

Emperor Friedrich II. of the Hohenstaufen could win somehow against the papacy and the Italian cities. Therefore maybe some successors could centered their power in Italy.
Of course such an empire would control the papacy.
Also some expansion plans (Konstantinople or the crusader states) are possible.
This empire could also control Burgundy.
Maybe then there is no reason anymore to travel on the northern side of the Alpes.
Maybe then the duces in Germany could become nearly independent. (for example the House of the Welf a rival of the Hohenstaufen)
 
Alternatively,have Otto III live longer.Otto III saw himself more of a Roman than a German.He lived and ruled from the city of Rome itself.Although I must say that having a capital in Rome only has symbolic advantages.Milan is probably a better location.
 
Last edited:
Top